Swatch Group Target

[TB72]

Thought the following may be of interest to some Omega fans:

Just read on the BBC Telextext page that Swatch Group are looking for sales growth of between 5% and 10% in 2012 after reporting record sales in 2011 (up 21.7% to £4.8bn / $7.5bn).

I wonder where they are aiming most the the sales growth from? I'd reckon they'd have to shift a fair number of Swatch watches to reach their target, so I guess there will be a lot of pressure on the Omega Division.

[Passionata]

There are also other brands-brequet,etc-in the group,however you might be right omega is the best seller

[dsio]

As China and the rest of Asia increases its demand Omega will keep going up, the Constellation range is a license to print money over there.

[The GMT Master]

Omega will be a lynchpin of their success. They have a lot of very strong brands in their lower tiers (Tissot, Longines, Rado), as well as their more exclusive brands (Blancpain, Breguet, Glashutte Original). I have a feeling 2011 will be the year that Omega really begins to capture people's imaginations again - the cal. 8500 will be the foundation of their future

[htc8p]

Originally Posted by TB72

Thought the following may be of interest to some Omega fans:

Just read on the BBC Telextext page that Swatch Group are looking for sales growth of between 5% and 10% in 2012 after reporting record sales in 2011 (up 21.7% to £4.8bn / $7.5bn).

I wonder where they are aiming most the the sales growth from? I'd reckon they'd have to shift a fair number of Swatch watches to reach their target, so I guess there will be a lot of pressure on the Omega Division.

swatch group is an empire. that 5-10% is definitely doable. omega being the 2nd largest watch maker in the luxury segment, i think they'll contribute a large percentage.

[Baronrojo]

I'm guessing Longines getting positioned in the slot Omega is leaving open. I need to grab my Legend Diver before prices go up.

I always thought Longines deserved better recognition.

[AAMD11]

That's the way I feel about Rado. I think Longines and Rado are great brands, however alot of people are not into Rado's designs

[Dream99]

After talking to Various AD's it seems Omega are expecting a Massive increase in Omega watch sells during the worldwide coverage of the Olympic games this summer. I guess they have experienced this peak in sales quite a few times before as they are certainly not new the role of Official time keeper at these games. It will be very interesting to see what actaully happens.

[Dream99]

Originally Posted by Baronrojo

I'm guessing Longines getting positioned in the slot Omega is leaving open. I need to grab my Legend Diver before prices go up.

I always thought Longines deserved better recognition.

Totally agree.

[skoidat69]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

Omega will be a lynchpin of their success. They have a lot of very strong brands in their lower tiers (Tissot, Longines, Rado), as well as their more exclusive brands (Blancpain, Breguet, Glashutte Original). I have a feeling 2011 will be the year that Omega really begins to capture people's imaginations again - the cal. 8500 will be the foundation of their future

They also own Tiffanys and I think that it may add to their bottom line as well. I've done my part buying stuff for my wife there...

[Dweller of the Sea]

If I remember correctly, about 20% of swatch Groups income is from products that is non-watch related. They have fx a big quartz-crystal industry (I believe the biggest in the world). Quartz-crystals are used in almost all electronic products.

These non-watch related business´ could be something they will expand

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by skoidat69

They also own Tiffanys and I think that it may add to their bottom line as well. I've done my part buying stuff for my wife there...

They're no longer associated with Tiffanys - they were involved with making a watch for the brand, but there was a well documented falling-out between the two companies a few months back

[MP5]

I love Omega but I will not pay Rolex prices for them. This soaring increase in sales I just dont see it unless they are making significantly more per unit.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by MP5

I love Omega but I will not pay Rolex prices for them. This soaring increase in sales I just dont see it unless they are making significantly more per unit.

I'm sure there was a time when people would have refused to pay Omega prices for a Rolex

[capote]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

I'm sure there was a time when people would have refused to pay Omega prices for a Rolex

Omega is really stepping up, both their PO and AT 8500 are - as far as I am concerned - real competition to Rolex. They are moving in the right direction with movements as well as design while Rolex is moving in the opposite direction design-wise and not doing anything with the movements. It will be interesting to look back on this in ten years time.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by capote

Omega is really stepping up, both their PO and AT 8500 are - as far as I am concerned - real competition to Rolex. They are moving in the right direction with movements as well as design while Rolex is moving in the opposite direction design-wise and not doing anything with the movements. It will be interesting to look back on this in ten years time.

I completely agree. I think Rolex have to introduce a replacement for the 3135 based movements fairly soon to avoid having market share taken by Omega

[Dweller of the Sea]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

I completely agree. I think Rolex have to introduce a replacement for the 3135 based movements fairly soon to avoid having market share taken by Omega

I agree, but I don´t think Rolex feels that threatened.
Rolex has one thing that makes them sell watches no matter what, and thats their brand. Most of the people who buy a Rolex, doesn´t care about the movement, they just want the brand and the bling.

[Dream99]

Originally Posted by Dweller of the Sea

I agree, but I don´t think Rolex feels that threatened.
Rolex has one thing that makes them sell watches no matter what, and thats their brand. Most of the people who buy a Rolex, doesn´t care about the movement, they just want the brand and the bling.

I think you are right about Rolex purchasers. On the other hand Omega buyers seem to care alot more about what they are buying and I think this fact will be enough for Omega to take top spot in this sector of the watch market as they are producing better watches and movements than Rolex right now. Rolex do need to respond to this quite quickly and not rest on their laurels. I love this Forum very much and read both Rolex and Omega threads. It is amazing the differance between the two however. Rolex threads seem to be more interested in "What are you wearing today" and the investment protential of their watches, where as Omega Threads are more about the movements especially the new 8500 and the the History of the brand......Interesting times ahead this year I think!

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Dream99

I think you are right about Rolex purchasers. On the other hand Omega buyers seem to care alot more about what they are buying and I think this fact will be enough for Omega to take top spot in this sector of the watch market as they are producing better watches and movements than Rolex right now. Rolex do need to respond to this quite quickly and not rest on their laurels. I love this Forum very much and read both Rolex and Omega threads. It is amazing the differance between the two however. Rolex threads seem to be more interested in "What are you wearing today" and the investment protential of their watches, where as Omega Threads are more about the movements especially the new 8500 and the the History of the brand......Interesting times ahead this year I think!

Very much so. I think the next 10 years are going to herald the relaunch of Omega as a serious player again

[Dweller of the Sea]

Originally Posted by Dream99

I think you are right about Rolex purchasers. On the other hand Omega buyers seem to care alot more about what they are buying and I think this fact will be enough for Omega to take top spot in this sector of the watch market as they are producing better watches and movements than Rolex right now. Rolex do need to respond to this quite quickly and not rest on their laurels. I love this Forum very much and read both Rolex and Omega threads. It is amazing the differance between the two however. Rolex threads seem to be more interested in "What are you wearing today" and the investment protential of their watches, where as Omega Threads are more about the movements especially the new 8500 and the the History of the brand......Interesting times ahead this year I think!

This is very true, but the WIS people are only buying a few procent of what Omega and Rolex produces. Probably 98% are bought by people who are none WIS.

[AAMD11]

I will be honest but I don't see myself buying a Rolex anytime soon. I believe they are somewhat overrated and you basically pay more for the name than for what it realy is. I much prefer Omega.

[Wisconsin Proud]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

I completely agree. I think Rolex have to introduce a replacement for the 3135 based movements fairly soon to avoid having market share taken by Omega

what does an 8500 do that a 3135 doesnt? not broke, dont fix it. the 2500 was broke and needed fixing. plenty of facts to support this.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin Proud

what does an 8500 do that a 3135 doesnt? not broke, dont fix it. the 2500 was broke and needed fixing. plenty of facts to support this.

The 1991 Toyota Camry, it ain't broke so why bother improving on it:



Mind you, the 1991 Toyota Camry doesn't have a winding mechanism that wears out prematurely, but that's a minor difference.

[The GMT Master]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin Proud

what does an 8500 do that a 3135 doesnt? not broke, dont fix it. the 2500 was broke and needed fixing. plenty of facts to support this.

The 2500A and 2500B had issues, certainly, but the 'C' variant has been a very strong performer, and the 'D' variant with the three level escapement will build on it. As a base level movement in the Omega range now, it's very impressive indeed IMO.

As for what an 8500 does that a 3135 doesn't:

Longer power reserve - 60 hours vs. 48 hours

Nicer finishing - subjective, but I've not met anyone yet who doesn't love the attention to detail given to the cal. 8500

More stability - cal. 8500 has already demonstrated that it has extremely good stability in all positions, which lends itself to greater accuracy

Longer service intervals - 3-5 years for the Rolex, 5-7 years for the Omega (and that is a very conservative estimate - the whispers are that the cal. 8500 will achieve the 10 year service intervals that Co-Axial originally mooted)

In-built hour jump feature - a nice touch.

You have to remember that the cal. 3135 is 20 years old, and even then, was only an evolution of the even older cal. 3035. I think the only discernible difference was the change over to a full bridge for the balance wheel. In my opinion, if Rolex don't want to lose out to the cal. 8500 as it becomes better known, they need to bring out a new workhorse movement with the power to wow. I know Rolex are capable of making incredible movements, take the cal. 4160 for example, but it remains to be seen where their product development is going. After the Yacht-Master and ND Sub have been updated, the next obvious change to make is a new movement. But will it be too late?

Chris

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

I completely agree. I think Rolex have to introduce a replacement for the 3135 based movements fairly soon to avoid having market share taken by Omega

GMT Master I agree with what you say most of the time. But, this time I must vehemently disagree. I believe most Rolex owners, like myself, prefer true and time tested timed time pieces. The 2500 series coaxials were a "problem" to say the least "A", "B", and then "C"!

Daniels stated from the begining a coaxial cannot run at 28,800. Look at the reductions in the service intervals since introduction. Rolex has never had problems like this, nor will they.

Before you state Rolex needs to update the 3135 I suggest you review Omega's history of the magnificent coaxial movement's introduction.

No hard feelings - Just tired of the 8500 glorification.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by mrbill2mrbill2

GMT Master I agree with what you say most of the time. But, this time I must vehemently disagree. I believe most Rolex owners, like myself, prefer true and time tested timed time pieces. The 2500 series coaxials were a "problem" to say the least "A", "B", and then "C"!

Daniels stated from the begining a coaxial cannot run at 28,800. Look at the reductions in the service intervals since introduction. Rolex has never had problems like this, nor will they.

Before you state Rolex needs to update the 3135 I suggest you review Omega's history of the magnificent coaxial movement's introduction.

No hard feelings - Just tired of the 8500 glorification.

Never had problems with the Cal 3135 is an interesting statement given how many issues have been reported on this very forum among other places.

Relating the Cal 2500 to the Cal 8500 is also a bit of a reach, one had nothing to do with the other.

I mean, in all honesty you can be as tired as you like of "glorification" but if the closest thing to a negative argument that can be raised is a small number of issues with early revisions of an entirely separate movement and the fact that it hasn't been given long enough to fail yet (the Cal 8500 Hour Visions are coming up 5 years old now btw) it sort of becomes a matter of praise by feint damning.

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

The 2500A and 2500B had issues, certainly, but the 'C' variant has been a very strong performer, and the 'D' variant with the three level escapement will build on it. As a base level movement in the Omega range now, it's very impressive indeed IMO.

As for what an 8500 does that a 3135 doesn't:

Longer power reserve - 60 hours vs. 48 hours

Nicer finishing - subjective, but I've not met anyone yet who doesn't love the attention to detail given to the cal. 8500

More stability - cal. 8500 has already demonstrated that it has extremely good stability in all positions, which lends itself to greater accuracy

Longer service intervals - 3-5 years for the Rolex, 5-7 years for the Omega (and that is a very conservative estimate - the whispers are that the cal. 8500 will achieve the 10 year service intervals that Co-Axial originally mooted)

In-built hour jump feature - a nice touch.

You have to remember that the cal. 3135 is 20 years old, and even then, was only an evolution of the even older cal. 3035. I think the only discernible difference was the change over to a full bridge for the balance wheel. In my opinion, if Rolex don't want to lose out to the cal. 8500 as it becomes better known, they need to bring out a new workhorse movement with the power to wow. I know Rolex are capable of making incredible movements, take the cal. 4160 for example, but it remains to be seen where their product development is going. After the Yacht-Master and ND Sub have been updated, the next obvious change to make is a new movement. But will it be too late?

Chris

" Longer service intervals - 3-5 years for the Rolex, 5-7 years for the Omega (and that is a very conservative estimate - the whispers are that the cal. 8500 will achieve the 10 year service intervals that Co-Axial originally mooted)"

I don't think so. While the coaxial escapement has a longer service/lubrication time frame
The remainder of the movement is the same as any other mechanical watch and will require more frequent lubrication than the coaxial escapement.

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by dsio

Never had problems with the Cal 3135 is an interesting statement given how many issues have been reported on this very forum among other places.

Relating the Cal 2500 to the Cal 8500 is also a bit of a reach, one had nothing to do with the other.

I mean, in all honesty you can be as tired as you like of "glorification" but if the closest thing to a negative argument that can be raised is a small number of issues with early revisions of an entirely separate movement and the fact that it hasn't been given long enough to fail yet (the Cal 8500 Hour Visions are coming up 5 years old now btw) it sort of becomes a matter of praise by feint damning.

Wow!!!

Please re-read my post and point out where I stated there has never been problems with the 3135.

Relax. I think Omega makes a great watch - I just won't be buying a coaxial movement in the next 10 years. Omega has demonstrated they do not test appropriately before putting it, the coaxial movement, on the market. Fool me once (2500) don't fool me twice (8500).

[dsio]

Originally Posted by mrbill2mrbill2

Wow!!!

Please re-read my post and point out where I stated there has never been problems with the 3135.

Relax. I think Omega makes a great watch - I just won't be buying a coaxial movement in the next 10 years. Omega has demonstrated they do not test appropriately before putting it, the coaxial movement on the market. Fool me once (2500) don't fool me twice (8500).

True, must have misread that line, apologies for that.

Still its been 5 years on the 8500, sky still hasn't fallen in.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by skoidat69

They also own Tiffanys and I think that it may add to their bottom line as well. I've done my part buying stuff for my wife there...

The affiliation are limited to the watches. Tiffany Watch Co. (branded as Tiffany & Co) is wholly owned by Swatch.

edit: Chris is correct though, there was a breach motion filed by Tiffany's. Swatch has two years to wind down that business unit