new buyer need advice on buying a ss sub w/date

[discodago]

hello i have never owned a rolex but i am wanting to get one, i want one that is tough, as i well wear it probaly everyday, i have decided on a ss sub w/date black face, can anyone give me some advice on these, i have heard that the bracelets on the new ones are stretching quite a bit, and if i get a used one how do you know if it has the luminova, instead of the tritium,i have heard the luminova is better right? but any advice woul be greatly appreciated, thanks

[mike]

Hi, First of all welcome!

Congrats on deciding to get your first Rolex. All Rolex watches are special, but there's just something about the first.

The Submariner with date is an excellent choice for someone with an active lifestyle who wants a watch capable of meeting anything that a watch can reasonably be expected to handle and still present a certain elegance when necessary. Some have called the Sub. the most iconic of sport watches being equally at home in the rough or the boardroom.

The modern reference 16610 uses a Rolex 3135 fastbeat movement and, of course carries a COSC certification. The Subs movement is a battle hardened vet. that properly maintained will give a lifetime of service.



Current 16610s use luminova as the illuminating source and have done so since circa 1998 when the use of tritium was curtailed in most watches.
Tritium is a mildly radioactive substance that while "always on" as opposed to luminova which needs an outside light source to activate, has a half life of about 12 1/2 years.
Because of this most trit. dials have pretty much given up the ghost or are very weak.
Because tritium is radioactive (beta) watch dials carring the substance were/are marked in several ways with the legend "SWISS T,25" at the bottom of the dial being the latest. That simply means a dial that emits less that 25 milicuries of radiation. A measure of such things.
Note the markings on this example,



Watches sent to Rolex for dial replacement receive luminova dials whether they were originally tritium or not. Currently dials in the states at least are simply marked "SWISS"



As to better? Luminova "glow" while very good initally tends to fad over time and will need "re-charging" Certainly factors such as surface area and the like factor heavily into the intensity. Tritium will work till it's dead. LOL!

A comparison of surface area --standard vs. maxi-dial



To be honest, I'm not aware of excessive stretching problems on modern Subs. If anything modern bracelets are strong indeed capable of many years of use with little maintance save keeping it clean and properly sized.

[karmatp]

Hey Mike, that was a nice reply, very informative I'm sure.

[thomas311]

yea mike, you sounded better than most of the ADs ive dealt with.

great info!

[real deal]

Originally Posted by discodago

hello i have never owned a rolex but i am wanting to get one, i want one that is tough, as i well wear it probaly everyday, i have decided on a ss sub w/date black face, can anyone give me some advice on these, i have heard that the bracelets on the new ones are stretching quite a bit, and if i get a used one how do you know if it has the luminova, instead of the tritium,i have heard the luminova is better right? but any advice woul be greatly appreciated, thanks

I am the proud owner of a Z sub/date ss. It is a great choice for an all around watch. I really like it and I hope you will too!!!

[teehan]

Hi,

If you must get the SS Sub w/date, do a check with your AD. The latest model comes with the chapter ring branding. Simply put, it has the words "rolexrolexrolex" engraved on the ring surrounding the dial (watch's face).

I saw one in an AD in Singapore...

[Alcan]

Hi DD, welcome aboard!

Pretty hard to add to Mike's answer, he covered it all.

[dr_rolex]

Welcome...........

The watch you want to buy is THE GAWD of all watches.

[frostie]

Welcome to TRF the rolex sub is one of the most legendary watches ever made. Great choice

[discodago]

wow thanks for the responses, what should i look at paying for a ss sub w/date,is there a huge price difference in one that is a few years old vs a new one? also is buying one off ebay not a good idea?thanks

[CPTL]

New you're going to pay pretty close to MSRP--especially at an AD. That's around $5175.

You can save $250-$500 at a grey dealer, depending on which one. The ones usually referred to here as very reliable are in that range. BNIB from a grey expect around $4800.

These things depreciate around $750-1000 in the first year, it seems. You can find a very lightly used LNIB around six months old Z for around $4400. 1-year old D for around $4100.

After that, they seem to depreciate around $100 a year so long as they're in very good condition. And, there are a lot of them out there in very good condition.

My advice: find a Z or D that's like new and at or under a year old. You get a basically new watch with the max possible savings.

2nd choice: if you must have brand new, go to an AD and negotiate about 5%. Have them mail it out of state to save tax. The diff between AD and grey on the sub BNIB is not big enough to justify the risk.

[SSD]

I own a Z-series Sub Date, and would never get rid of it. I have designs on other watches, but it is THE Rolex icon, JMO. However, if you are not an experienced buyer, I strongly recommend going to an AD. This has a twofold purpose: 1. to avoid fakes, and 2. having the guarantee from Rolex. Its true that negotiations will be limited, but maybe you can bargain for an additional guarantee, a free first service or something else (I did). And, you would have the satisfaction of aquiring your first one brand new.

Welcome to TRF, enjoy your stay, and best of luck!

[frostie]

wow very informative post mike great job

[AardTech]

Yeah I just bought my first ever Rolex - a 16610 - last week from an AD here in the UK and had to pay UK list for it; guy wouldn't give me a penny off it, mainly because I was the fifth person he'd called (the other four didn't call back) and there were more waiting after me to pay all the money for it.

MSRP here in the UK is $5797 incidentally, with used ones going for no more than $200 less through specialists and off ebay; maybe more demand in the UK - we probably get less of them, I was told I'd have to wait two years (waited two months in the end because I got of my ass and phoned round).

[Tools]

Great watch to have.

There isn't a lot of bargaining wiggle room on these models, as others have said.

Personally, I would bite the bullet and get a brand new one at MSRP (or through a reputable gray dealer). You aren't going to save that much with a used one, and there is some satisfaction in knowing you're the first person to put it on..

[AardTech]

absolutely agree. I looked at a few used ones before making the plump for the new one, and when I first put it on there was an unmistakable moment of immense proudness; I knew then that whilst I'd paid a little more than I would have elsewhere, it was the right decision to have made.

[discodago]

again thank you for all the information, i do have another question, i have never seen a sea-dweller before until on this site,but i like the looks of it as well, can someone give me some info on it, is it as good as the sub, size wise and what not and is it cheaper or are they pretty close, they both are very sharp looking, but any help is greatly appreciated,thanks

[AardTech]

ha, you're going through exactly what i went through

Sea Dweller has a gas escape valve for decompression diving, will go to 4000ft rather than 1000ft (way outside of recreational diving limits anyway) and doesn't have the magnification bubble over the date. That's what it came down to for me, I'm sure someone much more knowledgeable could give you more info or correct me if I'm wrong.

I just preferred the look of the Sub; I met a couple of guys on holiday recently, one had a Sub LV and the other had a SD, so I took a look at both closely; guess it's down to whatever floats your boat.

[pol]

The SS Sub Date is a great watch to have...I am relatively new to this watch and I must say I am very impressed...the time is dead on...the watch has a great feel and look. I share a lot of the same sentiments as others here so I won't repeat. I like the SD, its a great wear as well, but to my taste the Sub Date just looked and felt better.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

[Arturo]

Look on our own for sale postings. There were some great offers on the watch you want lsat I saw. This business about the "new bracelets" stretching is utter BS. No stretching is occuring aside from the normal which means it takes a long time to stretch one of these babies out. Just wear your watch snug and you won's get as much stretch.

[JJ Irani]

The SS Sub Date is still considered by many to be the quintessential Rolex out there!!

If it's your very first Rolex, what better way to start out than this one!!

Good luck - JJ

[llamaofdoom]

Originally Posted by CPTL

New you're going to pay pretty close to MSRP--especially at an AD. That's around $5175.

You can save $250-$500 at a grey dealer, depending on which one. The ones usually referred to here as very reliable are in that range. BNIB from a grey expect around $4800.

These things depreciate around $750-1000 in the first year, it seems. You can find a very lightly used LNIB around six months old Z for around $4400. 1-year old D for around $4100.

After that, they seem to depreciate around $100 a year so long as they're in very good condition. And, there are a lot of them out there in very good condition.

My advice: find a Z or D that's like new and at or under a year old. You get a basically new watch with the max possible savings.

2nd choice: if you must have brand new, go to an AD and negotiate about 5%. Have them mail it out of state to save tax. The diff between AD and grey on the sub BNIB is not big enough to justify the risk.

I'd just go the AD route on this one - while you will take an initial $1,000 depreciation hit, you'll be getting the Rolex warranty and a guarantee that the watch is in top shape. Plus, by the time Rolex does a few more price increases, you'll likely be better than even on the purchase price within 3-5 years. Subs take an initial depreciation hit - but over the longer term, they follow the Rolex price increases very closely, even in the used market.

Five years ago, I bought a used T serial Sub Date for $2,450. It was in very good condition - the only thing it could have used cosmetically was a new insert. It would be hard to find the same watch now for less than $3,200-$3,500.

[S2000 Driver]

[discodago]

would you guys recommend any dealers off ebay, or is there just too many scammers out there, also if i was to buy it through paypal on a credit card would i be covered if the watch was a fake,thanks

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by discodago

would you guys recommend any dealers off ebay, or is there just too many scammers out there, also if i was to buy it through paypal on a credit card would i be covered if the watch was a fake,thanks

Buy something for 50 bucks on EBay, not 5,000 bucks. To many scammers on there.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Welcome to TRF!

I have had some SS Sub Dates and IMHO it is THE iconic Rolex watches of them all and with a great history behind it.

About SL:

Well, Mike gave you a nice description of SL and Tritium, but for all it's worth I myself prefer SL since it does not (or is not known) to degrade over the years, both in terms of colour and lume.

About the Oyster bracelet that is on the Sub:

If you make sure to wash your watch regularly and use a toothbrush between the link to remove any assembled dirt there AND if you also make sure that you wear your watch "snug" (so that you can just put your little finger under the clasp), then your Rolex bracelet is destined to outlast you. The same applies to the movement: If you have it serviced in 5-year intervals, it should last a lifetime.

[BiG JeEzY]

Originally Posted by Spacedweller

Welcome to TRF!

I have had some SS Sub Dates and IMHO it is THE iconic Rolex watches of them all and with a great history behind it.

About SL:

Well, Mike gave you a nice description of SL and Tritium, but for all it's worth I myself prefer SL since it does not (or is not known) to degrade over the years, both in terms of colour and lume.

About the Oyster bracelet that is on the Sub:

If you make sure to wash your watch regularly and use a toothbrush between the link to remove any assembled dirt there AND if you also make sure that you wear your watch "snug" (so that you can just put your little finger under the clasp), then your Rolex bracelet is destined to outlast you. The same applies to the movement: If you have it serviced in 5-year intervals, it should last a lifetime.

Bo is very much right on. Great advice from him.

Just to add to him, if you use a toothbrush to clean your Rolex, make sure that you get a brush with some really soft bristles on it. If the bristles are too hard, they will eventually dull out the edges of the watch over time. This is because hard bristles generate more friction on the surface of the watch.

[fear]

Both the Sub and SD are legendary. Awesome watches. Either will serve you well. Good luck.

[Jedi]

My SS Sub Date just came back from Service today... And it looks fantastic. They did a really good job.

As for how tough it is, I mentioned elsewhere and my Sub and I have gone through quite a bit over the years and I cannot say enough about how tough it is.

It took a pretty big knock once from a scaffolding pipe that came loose on a construction site. Once I dusted it off, it looked pretty good and after a quick polish, maybe there was a nick on the bezel, nothing more. Mind you my wrist was bruised and my mates reckoned that if the watch wasn't there, the impact might have broken my wrist.

Here's an ad-hoc picture of my Sub right after pick up.

[discodago]

the reason i ask about the ebay is there is a model 16610 serial #u7900### should be a 2000 year model i think, looks to be in excellent shape he guarantees that is is authentic,said it has been serviced and polished,for like 3700 shipped,is that a decent deal? i would pay through paypal so i would be covered if it was fake i think,