Do you really care?

[Hairdude1]

I look at design and how will the timepiece stand the test of time

[Brushpup]

Originally Posted by Bangel

So for discussions sake, what if you came across a Rolex model you were seeking, but the movement had been replaced, with let's say a brand new, accurate to within COSC spec Timex movement (Timex just chosen at random, I like Timex too!). This watch could be yours at a significantly discounted price compared to one with a Rolex movement.

Which one would you purchase?

Of course this is purely hypothetical and I'm not trying to suggest in any way that the hypothetical purchase of this imaginary watch has anything to do with being happy about passing off a modified watch as unmodified. Just interested in your take on it.

The full deal Rolex hands down, without hesitation...and I will add, that if this were the situation and the full package was out of my reach, I would do without it. Even with the "Timex Option". I am not disparaging anyone that would buy it, I just could not be happy with it, thinking I had to settle for "second best".

Really this has already happened in a sense with Tudor, and that is an option I would choose. To me, it isn't quite the same, and it's an option I could be completely happy with. I don't know if this makes sense, but it's just how I am.

How about you?

[polarinda]

I wouldn't buy a nice looking Rolex with an ETA movement. Nothing wrong with the movement though.
The main reason I chose Rolex is because they hold their value very well in the preowned market and they have the looks and robustness to boot. A complete package so to speak.

[justdate]

With cars I truly care, and I really get a kick out of just the incredible engineering of my AMG which can create 500bhp & 750nm torque... i just think it's amazing.

I respect the art of the way the watch has been made, however it doesn't really 'do' that much for me, not in the same way as car engines do. I suppose some more complex movements I do find quite fascinating, but on a basic time/date, not so much.

I buy Rolex more for the brand, the incredible visual art - the beauty of some models is just... perfection, everytime I see myself in the mirror it catches my eye and makes me smile - and that wearing a genuine, very expensive, luxury watch is just an awesome feeling to me! It really gives me a kick, I just love it.

[Bangel]

Originally Posted by Brushpup

The full deal Rolex hands down, without hesitation...and I will add, that if this were the situation and the full package was out of my reach, I would do without it. Even with the "Timex Option". I am not disparaging anyone that would buy it, I just could not be happy with it, thinking I had to settle for "second best".

Really this has already happened in a sense with Tudor, and that is an option I would choose. To me, it isn't quite the same, and it's an option I could be completely happy with. I don't know if this makes sense, but it's just how I am.

How about you?

Your answer pretty much sums up my view as well.

For me, the movement is one of the core components that makes a Rolex so appealing. While I admit I'm initially drawn to a watch by it's looks and comfort, it's the movement (and construction and heritage) that inspires my confidence in it. I wouldn't settle for one component without the other.

[VICI]

Originally Posted by handsfull

Same thing happens with cars....I know a person in the neighborhood who bought a Porsche 911 and I asked him what the engine specs (horsepower/torque/etc) were and he looked at me perplexed, and shrugged his shoulders. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

I usually know more about cars than the sales people.

There's a certain appeal to knowing about your asset rather than just being able to acquire it. It usually makes people appreciate the product even more.

[Brushpup]

Originally Posted by Bangel

Your answer pretty much sums up my view as well.

For me, the movement is one of the core components that makes a Rolex so appealing. While I admit I'm initially drawn to a watch by it's looks and comfort, it's the movement (and construction and heritage) that inspires my confidence in it. I wouldn't settle for one component without the other.

[Lumberjact]

Unless we are talking about buying for investment, then the purchase of any watch other than a good quality quartz is emotionally-driven, not bounded by rationality. That is, I guess you could say, the Human Condition. We are irrational emotional creatures, whether we care to admit it or not, and we are subjected to our internal biases and often non-sensical whims. We can justify almost anything to comply with those paradigms. That is why we buy an Audi rather than a VW or a Skoda, yet we tell ourselves that the better-looking car is a preferable purchase for aesthetic reasons, even though it is really the same car but will depreciate quicker and cost more to service. It is also, strangely enough, why in my opinion, buying watches is no less of a "waste of money" as some of our critics might say, than travelling a distance to meet relatives. We don't *need* to meet our relatives, and we can communicate just as effectively using Skype etc. The fact is we *want* to meet them, and of course we should, but to try to rationalise human emotions has long been tried and failed! Just as an aside this, in my view, it is one of the failings of modern economics, which tries to explain human behaviour in terms of "economic man": that all people will only act in a manner which makes most economic sense, but that's obviously a separate discussion!

Personally, I like Fridays because I get to spend time with my family and enjoy a few days' respite from the grind. Not because it makes me more efficient on Mondays, but because I enjoy the time off and tending to a garden which produces nothing of value and costs money to maintain. Utterly irrational - but you gotta love it!!

Have a good weekend.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Lumberjact

Unless we are talking about buying for investment, then the purchase of any watch other than a good quality quartz is emotionally-driven, not bounded by rationality. That is, I guess you could say, the Human Condition. We are irrational emotional creatures, whether we care to admit it or not, and we are subjected to our internal biases and often non-sensical whims. We can justify almost anything to comply with those paradigms. That is why we buy an Audi rather than a VW or a Skoda, yet we tell ourselves that the better-looking car is a preferable purchase for aesthetic reasons, even though it is really the same car but will depreciate quicker and cost more to service. It is also, strangely enough, why in my opinion, buying watches is no less of a "waste of money" as some of our critics might say, than travelling a distance to meet relatives. We don't *need* to meet our relatives, and we can communicate just as effectively using Skype etc. The fact is we *want* to meet them, and of course we should, but to try to rationalise human emotions has long been tried and failed! Just as an aside this, in my view, it is one of the failings of modern economics, which tries to explain human behaviour in terms of "economic man": that all people will only act in a manner which makes most economic sense, but that's obviously a separate discussion!

Personally, I like Fridays because I get to spend time with my family and enjoy a few days' respite from the grind. Not because it makes me more efficient on Mondays, but because I enjoy the time off and tending to a garden which produces nothing of value and costs money to maintain. Utterly irrational - but you gotta love it!!

Have a good weekend.

ummm sooooo.....what do you think about the movement.

[00Seven]

Absolutely - I want a movement to be accurate and reliable, first and foremost.

[Lumberjact]

[QUOTE=Rashid.bk;3707255]ummm sooooo.....what do you think about the movement.

I love it despite the utterly irrational reasons that it doesn't keep time accurately, needs an expensive service every few years and increases my annual household insurance premium.

What about you? Any insights to offer or is sarcasm the extent of it?

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Lumberjact

What about you? Any insights to offer or is sarcasm the extent of it?

You obviously didn't read through the thread. Beyond sarcasm I did have an opinion. Page two post 60.
But chill out dude, to be fair, you didn't say anything about the movement initially. Not to mention I was just being humorous, see the little chuckling guy.
And I disagree, I "need" to see my family not want. Deployments and now working abroad for months at time has shown me the value of their presence in my life. Take care.

[QueueCumber]

I like a few Rolex models, three of which I own. Is it the best movement out there? I guess not, but I do love how some Rolex watches look, and I love the weight of solid gold. I also enjoy the tradition.

I do like to only collect watches where the movements are made in-house. There are far too many watches out there already. Putting that limitation on my collecting helps me to limit my purchases, and I also like that I can look at and appreciate the different approaches to time keeping, and their associated complications, as represented by different horological manufacturers within my collection. So yes, I do care about the movement inside.

I have a friend who used to only collect independent watch maker's watches. He has some nice stuff in his collection. His criteria seriously limited his collection, but his criteria also raised the prices of the watches to stratospheric levels while also increasing their collectability.

Of course watch collecting is emotional. Anything related to collecting has an emotional element to it. That doesn't make it irrational though. There are plenty of psychological studies of the effects that art, interior design, environmental design, music, etc. (i.e. all creative and expressive arts) have on people's moods, and on the sociability of people with one another. What is irrational about wanting to surround yourself with things that make you feel good? There are already so many things in life that are geared towards making us feel bad. Why should we feel bad about wanting to buy a watch that makes us feel good? Life is short....

I spent a ton of money decorating my office a certain way. It makes me feel good. Sure, I could paint the room white and put down black linoleum. I could put nothing in the room but a chair, a desk, and a laptop. But it doesn't feel the same as painting it a warm brown color and putting down a warm cherry wood for flooring. Likewise, decorating the room with Tibetan Thangkas, chanting bowls, gold Buddhas, and Chinese Kirin's adds to the warmth as well.

The emotional experience of things that we enjoy is meaningful not irrational. Likewise, if we now know, because of current psychological research, that these things have a physiological affect on our well-being, then it is irrational not to enjoy them, because these things are necessary for our well-being (i.e. they are not unnecessary things).

[Steve260]

Originally Posted by superdog

about the movement inside? ...

I thank you in advance for your thoughts and responses.

For the most part, I don't care too much what the movement inside "looks like". However, I care a great deal about the quality of construction, robustness, accuracy and ease of maintainability of the movement inside the watch.

Sort of like how I feel about the engine in my car. If the car is beautiful on the outside but has an unreliable or extremely difficult or expensive to maintain engine, I'm not interested.

Rolex strikes a good balance IMHO. They don't put display backs on their watches, so they are free to engineer the movements for reliability and maintainability without too much regard for aesthetics inside the case.

This opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it <grin>. Great topic - I look forward to reading all the responses!

Steve

[Lumberjact]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

You obviously didn't read through the thread. Beyond sarcasm I did have an opinion. Page two post 60.
But chill out dude, to be fair, you didn't say anything about the movement initially. Not to mention I was just being humorous, see the little chuckling guy.
And I disagree, I "need" to see my family not want. Deployments and now working abroad for months at time has shown me the value of their presence in my life. Take care.

Points taken. I actually got into the original part of the discussion, which i thought was a bit more on why spend money on a Rolex, so I accept that the discussion was more on movements by the time I posted. Perhaps I missed the chuckling guy too.

Anyways I understand your need to see your family. I think a possible alternative theory is that we all have needs and wants, and unless we fulfill those needs we cannot fully function. Therefore what some may perceive as irrational wants are in fact needs which must be met. Where we all differ might be in what it takes to fulfill those needs in the pursuit of happiness.

Have a good weekend.

[jay1988]

Yes I care a lot.

I really wish I didn't like Rolex so much. It's such a cliched watch to own. Every one knows the name Rolex which is not a positive for me.

Then again what other watch can you get that has been proven to last a lifetime, has an in-house movement and is solid as a rock ? I'm pretty reluctant with in-house movements that have been around for only a few years making Rolex the best option for me. I know Panerai and Omega have them but they are too new for me. I wish JLC made a solid all steel sports watch but their sports line did nothing for me.

[FremStar]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Krusty rules!

;-)

Originally Posted by FeelingTheBlues

That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough, I'm going to Clown's College!

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I like a few Rolex models, three of which I own. Is it the best movement out there? I guess not, but I do love how some Rolex watches look, and I love the weight of solid gold. I also enjoy the tradition.

I do like to only collect watches where the movements are made in-house. There are far too many watches out there already. Putting that limitation on my collecting helps me to limit my purchases, and I also like that I can look at and appreciate the different approaches to time keeping, and their associated complications, as represented by different horological manufacturers within my collection. So yes, I do care about the movement inside.

I have a friend who used to only collect independent watch maker's watches. He has some nice stuff in his collection. His criteria seriously limited his collection, but his criteria also raised the prices of the watches to stratospheric levels while also increasing their collectability.

Of course watch collecting is emotional. Anything related to collecting has an emotional element to it. That doesn't make it irrational though. There are plenty of psychological studies of the effects that art, interior design, environmental design, music, etc. (i.e. all creative and expressive arts) have on people's moods, and on the sociability of people with one another. What is irrational about wanting to surround yourself with things that make you feel good? There are already so many things in life that are geared towards making us feel bad. Why should we feel bad about wanting to buy a watch that makes us feel good? Life is short....

I spent a ton of money decorating my office a certain way. It makes me feel good. Sure, I could paint the room white and put down black linoleum. I could put nothing in the room but a chair, a desk, and a laptop. But it doesn't feel the same as painting it a warm brown color and putting down a warm cherry wood for flooring. Likewise, decorating the room with Tibetan Thangkas, chanting bowls, gold Buddhas, and Chinese Kirin's adds to the warmth as well.

The emotional experience of things that we enjoy is meaningful not irrational. Likewise, if we now know, because of current psychological research, that these things have a physiological affect on our well-being, then it is irrational not to enjoy them, because these things are necessary for our well-being (i.e. they are not unnecessary things).

Well said and outside of horology exactly the reason I am still trying to convince my Mrs. that I need the Adams Family pinball machine at home to make my other hobby complete!

Originally Posted by jay1988

Yes I care a lot.

I really wish I didn't like Rolex so much. It's such a cliched watch to own. Every one knows the name Rolex which is not a positive for me.

Then again what other watch can you get that has been proven to last a lifetime, has an in-house movement and is solid as a rock ? I'm pretty reluctant with in-house movements that have been around for only a few years making Rolex the best option for me. I know Panerai and Omega have them but they are too new for me. I wish JLC made a solid all steel sports watch but their sports line did nothing for me.

Well said as well.. As our fellow TRF member Puffy states... Rolex is a pedestrian brand, however, personally speaking dabbling in Patek, Audemars, JLC, etc. there is something about the Rolex mystic that keeps folks especially me attached to the brand!

[caryyee]

I care about the movement, but only that it be reliable and accurate. We all know the Rolex movements are extremely reliable and will keep on working in any situations, but they are also not the 'best' or well finished movements. I think we'd all agree that their movements are a level below AP,VC and PP.

I choose Rolex mainly because of the looks and the brand. I mean, that's why we pay as much as we do. If a non-name manufacture made a watch that feels and looks as good as a Rolex, with a movement as good as Rolex's, would you be paying $8k for Sub like watch? Nup, we pay as much as we do cause of the name Rolex on the dial ...

[Lumberjact]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I like a few Rolex models, three of which I own. Is it the best movement out there? I guess not, but I do love how some Rolex watches look, and I love the weight of solid gold. I also enjoy the tradition.

I do like to only collect watches where the movements are made in-house. There are far too many watches out there already. Putting that limitation on my collecting helps me to limit my purchases, and I also like that I can look at and appreciate the different approaches to time keeping, and their associated complications, as represented by different horological manufacturers within my collection. So yes, I do care about the movement inside.

I have a friend who used to only collect independent watch maker's watches. He has some nice stuff in his collection. His criteria seriously limited his collection, but his criteria also raised the prices of the watches to stratospheric levels while also increasing their collectability.

Of course watch collecting is emotional. Anything related to collecting has an emotional element to it. That doesn't make it irrational though. There are plenty of psychological studies of the effects that art, interior design, environmental design, music, etc. (i.e. all creative and expressive arts) have on people's moods, and on the sociability of people with one another. What is irrational about wanting to surround yourself with things that make you feel good? There are already so many things in life that are geared towards making us feel bad. Why should we feel bad about wanting to buy a watch that makes us feel good? Life is short....

I spent a ton of money decorating my office a certain way. It makes me feel good. Sure, I could paint the room white and put down black linoleum. I could put nothing in the room but a chair, a desk, and a laptop. But it doesn't feel the same as painting it a warm brown color and putting down a warm cherry wood for flooring. Likewise, decorating the room with Tibetan Thangkas, chanting bowls, gold Buddhas, and Chinese Kirin's adds to the warmth as well.

The emotional experience of things that we enjoy is meaningful not irrational. Likewise, if we now know, because of current psychological research, that these things have a physiological affect on our well-being, then it is irrational not to enjoy them, because these things are necessary for our well-being (i.e. they are not unnecessary things).

Interesting post and nicely put! Good food for thought there...

[james1787]

I like the fact that my Rolex has a mechanical movement that is a work of art in itself. I'm ok with it being a little off over time. If I want something accurate I have a Casio G-Shock that syncs up with an atomic clock every night. Each have their own attributes I'm happy with and that's good enough for me :)

[jay1988]

Rolex also have a few niches that are worth mentioning. How many platinum sports watches are out there ?

Rolex have a white gold sports watch. Not many of those around as well.

Also the price niche. The VC overseas in gold costs about £40k whereas you can get a DDII in gold for half that price. No gold watch I've ever worn feels as solid as a gold sub. I would happily mess around on the beach with a gold sub. Gold AP or VC ? I'd be more careful.

[pietermann]

I sold my first Breitling, a Superocean Heritage, because it didn't had a in house movement :(.

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by pietermann

I sold my first Breitling, a Superocean Heritage, because it didn't had a in house movement :(.

Sold a Bulgari Diagono GMT as well. More or less for that reason and also because I wanted a more classically styled watch.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

[crowncollection]

The movement is a miracle of engeneering, I find it fascinating, I like the quality and reliability.

[nd4me]

only thing I care about is that It looks great on my wrist.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by jay1988

Rolex also have a few niches that are worth mentioning. How many platinum sports watches are out there ?

Rolex have a white gold sports watch. Not many of those around as well.

Also the price niche. The VC overseas in gold costs about £40k whereas you can get a DDII in gold for half that price. No gold watch I've ever worn feels as solid as a gold sub. I would happily mess around on the beach with a gold sub. Gold AP or VC ? I'd be more careful.

A gold VC Overseas Vs DD2 comparison isn't about the metal, its about the movement and finishing. As much as you may like the DD2, frankly its one of the worst value watches Rolex makes by a significant margin.

[Dr. Robert]

Originally Posted by nd4me

only thing I care about is that It looks great on my wrist.

si........it is better to look good.

[Joey_V]

Oh heck yeah I care. I'm not just buying it for the shell. I'm buying it for the entirety that is Rolex.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I like a few Rolex models, three of which I own. Is it the best movement out there? I guess not, but I do love how some Rolex watches look, and I love the weight of solid gold. I also enjoy the tradition.

I do like to only collect watches where the movements are made in-house. There are far too many watches out there already. Putting that limitation on my collecting helps me to limit my purchases, and I also like that I can look at and appreciate the different approaches to time keeping, and their associated complications, as represented by different horological manufacturers within my collection. So yes, I do care about the movement inside.

I have a friend who used to only collect independent watch maker's watches. He has some nice stuff in his collection. His criteria seriously limited his collection, but his criteria also raised the prices of the watches to stratospheric levels while also increasing their collectability.

Of course watch collecting is emotional. Anything related to collecting has an emotional element to it. That doesn't make it irrational though. There are plenty of psychological studies of the effects that art, interior design, environmental design, music, etc. (i.e. all creative and expressive arts) have on people's moods, and on the sociability of people with one another. What is irrational about wanting to surround yourself with things that make you feel good? There are already so many things in life that are geared towards making us feel bad. Why should we feel bad about wanting to buy a watch that makes us feel good? Life is short....

I spent a ton of money decorating my office a certain way. It makes me feel good. Sure, I could paint the room white and put down black linoleum. I could put nothing in the room but a chair, a desk, and a laptop. But it doesn't feel the same as painting it a warm brown color and putting down a warm cherry wood for flooring. Likewise, decorating the room with Tibetan Thangkas, chanting bowls, gold Buddhas, and Chinese Kirin's adds to the warmth as well.

The emotional experience of things that we enjoy is meaningful not irrational. Likewise, if we now know, because of current psychological research, that these things have a physiological affect on our well-being, then it is irrational not to enjoy them, because these things are necessary for our well-being (i.e. they are not unnecessary things).

That's a great answer.

[superdog]

Thinking more about this.

While I still don't care too much about the specifics behind the movements in different watches, I've said for years that I'd only wear an automatic watch.

This being the case, I clearly do care to some degree. I enjoy the engineering and the sheer ingenuity behind making it work without a battery.

BUT, the details of said movements are still not too important to me. I've worn nearly every brand, and all seem to tell time just fine.

I still like say rolex for me. The styling and quality of case and bracelet are what win me over.