Day-Date Moisture Issue... Possible Buyer Beware

[porschejeff]

Usually 3 sides to every story Each person telling their side and then there's the TRUTH!

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by porschejeff

Usually 3 sides to every story Each person telling their side and then there's the TRUTH!

:-)

[Htab]

Originally Posted by porschejeff

Usually 3 sides to every story Each person telling their side and then there's the TRUTH!

[FNFZ4]

a fogged up watch is and will never be a $20 fix. not if you want it done right anyway. you know what, I got tired reading this without resolution. Send the watch to me and Ill have it serviced the right way. just pay for return shipping and any parts that it might require. if you need reference, I am sure you can find a few here on TRF about me:)

[Kringkily]

Originally Posted by FNFZ4

a fogged up watch is and will never be a $20 fix. not if you want it done right anyway. you know what, I got tired reading this without resolution. Send the watch to me and Ill have it serviced the right way. just pay for return shipping and any parts that it might require. if you need reference, I am sure you can find a few here on TRF about me:)

I would go with Alfred. I am going to send him a couple more watches soon and he gets it done.

[daneebee]

Hey guys.. Im sorry i took so long to answer, but this is the first time that i am reading this thread in its entirety. Ill just start by saying, that i have had the pleasure of speaking with Chozn1 this past friday, and he is a true gentleman. The fact of the matter is, that i had only received (read) one email from Chozn1 sometime in late September.. The others he sent i simply did not receive (spam), or just didnt read. Anything is possible. And i realize that is not his fault, its mine. I explained my issues of being overloaded with emails and that i actually had my computer savvy friend try to reduce the amount of commercial emails that i have been receiving, using some keywords technique..(above my grasp of computer knowledge). I have had this same friend undo whatever it is he had done previously, and will devote more time to going through emails. At the end of the day, im more of a call me direct type of guy, its quicker and easier in person type of guy, but as you can see, that isnt always the best way. Just to be clear though, and im not blaming Chozn1 for this, but i did not receive any phone calls whatsoever from him regarding this issue from its outset. I just want to make that clear because someone had posted that they couldnt believe that i didnt pick up the phone.. Again, phone contact was never attempted. Now i would like to illustrate a point here.. As clearly as i can. I have my own watchmaker that handles all of my repairs.. Because of the tight business relationship i have with him, my repairs end up costing me a fraction of what other people would have to pay for the same repair. It is for these reasons that it does not make any sense for me to ever shun a customer away in light of repairs. Never and i mean never, have i ever refused a customer a repair that was under warranty. My reputation in the watch community is sterling. So as i said earlier, i have had the pleasure of speaking with Chozn1 this past Friday, and he is a total gentleman.. He understood where i was coming from, and i certainly more than understand why anyone would be furious if they thought they were being neglected by a seller. I know i would. So there was no issue whatsoever beween us, and the last we left off, he was going to ship the watch to me to have my watchmaker service the watch, and make it better than ever.. Anyway, thanks for listening. My sincere apologies to Chozn1 and to the RF community.. We rely on trust. Without trust, we cant efficiently move big ticket items the way we do. Cheer's.. Dan..

[Swift_Movement]

No way I would simply have it repaired by him months after sale, especially with the excuses and poor communication. Refund only at this point. He did know there was an issue with the watch seals once you received it, as you emailed him and he gave you the number to call him at. A reputable seller would follow up with you after that fact as he knew something was going on, even if he did not get a call or further emails from you. There was no attempt for follow up. The "spam/junk" missing emails obviously sounds fishy, as the Gmail Spam filter does not filter out previously addresses with prior correspondence. He clearly was aware there was issue for which he was responsible for following up on. Amazing how the hurricane was such a major road block for him yet, "why didn't you call?". Waiting by his phone during a time of supposed desperation and disaster, yet no computer access for on-record communication?

If you get the watch back after his repair you still have to pay for someone to look at it like you said. Even if he offers to pay you for someone to look at it you will still always have it in the back of your mind every time you wear the watch. Its an "issue" watch now. Its was moist for months in your possession, and that was not part of the agreement. Makes me wonder why he was able to offer the initial price at such a deep discount. Perhaps he knew something that the ad didn't state?

That is my take on this. Hope it all works out for you.

[Andad]

Having read through your situation and in light of the delays in attending to a possible ingress of moisture I would simply send the watch to a RSC and ask for a quotation to fix any issues.
You will then know the exact condition of the movement and the work required.
The one year warranty can then be negotiated.

It is easy to be smart in hindsight but how about phone calls next time with a follow up confirmation email of the conversation and agreed outcomes?

[Rogdogg]

The seller Daneebee said that he even "called you several times with no reply on your end".

Is this true Chozn1? Did you receive any calls from Daneebee and not answer due to the fact that you wanted to keep things in writing? or did he never call you at all. I know if it was me, even if I wanted to keep things in writing I would have answered his calls, the fact he had disappeared.

It would be very easy to show us records of all of these calls being made.

There's just a lot of things don't quite add up here for me in this whole thing.

Firstly it was the hurricane that caused the issues of not receiving the emails, then it was an IT friend putting some kind of security on the email account.
Can you even add your own increased filter security to a gmail account?

I'm not being smart here but I would generally be interested to know this.

[Chozn1]

Originally Posted by Rogdogg

The seller Daneebee said that he even "called you several times with no reply on your end".

Is this true Chozn1? Did you receive any calls from Daneebee and not answer due to the fact that you wanted to keep things in writing? or did he never call you at all. I know if it was me, even if I wanted to keep things in writing I would have answered his calls, the fact he had disappeared.

It would be very easy to show us records of all of these calls being made.

There's just a lot of things don't quite add up here for me in this whole thing.

Firstly it was the hurricane that caused the issues of not receiving the emails, then it was an IT friend putting some kind of security on the email account.
Can you even add your own increased filter security to a gmail account?

I'm not being smart here but I would generally be interested to know this.

I've been out of town since the time of my last login for business. Basically a cram course and certification exam which I'm taking tomorrow early in the morn. I don't want to leave anything unanswered... or partially answered, so I'll report back as soon as possible. Again, I appreciate the input. I don't want folks thinking I've just aired my grief and now am dropping the thread like a bad habit after I've gotten advice from members.

[MegaGeek]

First time poster, (relatively) long time reader here.

From the outside looking in, and based solely on the information contained within this thread, I'm inclined to side with the buyer on this matter.

I feel the manner in which Chozn1 conducted himself to be professional, and the anonymity he initially afforded Daneebee more than generous. He was given no option but to air out his grievance in a public forum. At face value it appears that only the self-preservation of the sellers online reputation is what prompted a response; a red flag in my books.

As someone here has already mentioned, "the customer is always right". Chozn1's preferred method of correspondence is via email, which I believe is smart. I would be vary cautious of doing business with anyone who cant at least keep up with that expectation.

[xslyyx]

Originally Posted by megageek

first time poster, (relatively) long time reader here.

From the outside looking in, and based solely on the information contained within this thread, i'm inclined to side with the buyer on this matter.

I feel the manner in which chozn1 conducted himself to be professional, and the anonymity he initially afforded daneebee more than generous. He was given no option but to air out his grievance in a public forum. At face value it appears that only the self-preservation of the sellers online reputation is what prompted a response; a red flag in my books.

As someone here has already mentioned, "the customer is always right". Chozn1's preferred method of correspondence is via email, which i believe is smart. I would be vary cautious of doing business with anyone who cant at least keep up with that expectation.

+1

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by daneebee

Hey guys.. Im sorry i took so long to answer, but this is the first time that i am reading this thread in its entirety.

Dan, Got to tell you this starting comment doesn't instill any confidence as a potential buyer that you're responsive to your customer's concerns and acting swiftly to satisfy them. You skimmed over this thread before but just now "read it in it's entirety"? First read should have been enough for you to respond immediately.

Previously I've looked at a lot of your "for sale" listing, asked questions and considered a purchase. Due to the red flags in this thread alone I've stopped looking at them. If I'm the buyer at this point I would want one of 2 things to happen.

1.) Return for full refund. No questions! No Hassels!
2.) Qualified independant 3rd party examines the watch, determines required repairs & performs them at sellers expense.

Any other suggested course of action would be more of the same bad customer service.

No disrespect to your watchmaker but no better 3rd party than an RSC. It will cost you more but what's the value of your future reputation?

Originally Posted by directioneng

Having read through your situation and in light of the delays in attending to a possible ingress of moisture I would simply send the watch to a RSC and ask for a quotation to fix any issues.
You will then know the exact condition of the movement and the work required.
The one year warranty can then be negotiated.

It is easy to be smart in hindsight but how about phone calls next time with a follow up confirmation email of the conversation and agreed outcomes?

X2

[porschejeff]

I also side with the buyer here. The seller is posting items for sale, involved in an internet based business of high priced items, in a trusted online forum, but doesn't check his emails? Something just doesn't smell right. Very interested to see the outcome of this matter.

[Brenngun]

Has anyone seen an update from the OP? Would like to know what happened.

[Chozn1]

Originally Posted by Rogdogg

The seller Daneebee said that he even "called you several times with no reply on your end".

Is this true Chozn1? Did you receive any calls from Daneebee and not answer due to the fact that you wanted to keep things in writing? or did he never call you at all. I know if it was me, even if I wanted to keep things in writing I would have answered his calls, the fact he had disappeared.

It would be very easy to show us records of all of these calls being made.

There's just a lot of things don't quite add up here for me in this whole thing.

Firstly it was the hurricane that caused the issues of not receiving the emails, then it was an IT friend putting some kind of security on the email account.
Can you even add your own increased filter security to a gmail account?

I'm not being smart here but I would generally be interested to know this.

I'm not assigning ill-will to Dan, and I'm not sure when he's saying he started to call, but I did not receive a phone call until I sent a private message with a link to this thread. I can provide scans of my phone records should that be contested or memories become foggy.

I owe you all an update. I'm glad Dan got on here and aired his side, and I appreciate everyone's candor in response. I've just PM'd him and given him the weekend to let me know if he's going to issue a refund or not. I was going to parapharase, but it would probably be best if I just cut and paste...

Dan, I was out of town for 8 days after we spoke and couldn't get the watch sent off before leaving unfortunately. I've had time to come back and think about the matter and see other's input, and this is not something that you're going to want to hear, but I simply do not feel good about sending the watch back for repair. Something you said on the phone nags at me every time I think about it, and I hate to hold something against you that was said off the cuff, but when you said your watchmaker would go in and "rebuild the movement"... that's not what I want nor needed to hear. You caught yourself and perhaps you mis-spoke, but if I send it back for repair I'll always be wondering what might be going on with it and it will take the joy out of the watch. As I've said before, I'd have to invest more time in resources in getting it evaluated by a third party after its return.

I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions, but my worries have only been validated by the Rolex Forum Community members. If the majority of them had told me I was out of line with my request for a refund, I'd reconsider. But that's not been the case. Give it a day or two and let me know where you are on this. You said the watch has gone up in value, so I think it would be best if you take it back, repair it, and let it have a fresh start with someone else.

I'm not trying to be a drama queen here, but the fact is I'm busy, and even if not intentionally, someone else's error has chewed up my time and given me concern far beyond what I'm looking for in business as a buyer. I'm ready for it to be over with.

[daneebee]

Hi Chozn1.. No worries.. I was wondering where you were, and waiting to hear from you. Like i told you the last time we spoke on the phone, you are welcome to either send the watch back for a refund, or repair. Your choice.. So go ahead and send it back for a full refund.. You have my address.. Thanks, Dan....

[2th Dr]

Quote:
"Dan, I was out of town for 8 days after we spoke and couldn't get the watch sent off before leaving unfortunately. I've had time to come back and think about the matter and see other's input, and this is not something that you're going to want to hear, but I simply do not feel good about sending the watch back for repair. Something you said on the phone nags at me every time I think about it, and I hate to hold something against you that was said off the cuff, but when you said your watchmaker would go in and "rebuild the movement"... that's not what I want nor needed to hear. You caught yourself and perhaps you mis-spoke, but if I send it back for repair I'll always be wondering what might be going on with it and it will take the joy out of the watch. As I've said before, I'd have to invest more time in resources in getting it evaluated by a third party after its return.

I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions, but my worries have only been validated by the Rolex Forum Community members. If the majority of them had told me I was out of line with my request for a refund, I'd reconsider. But that's not been the case. Give it a day or two and let me know where you are on this. You said the watch has gone up in value, so I think it would be best if you take it back, repair it, and let it have a fresh start with someone else."
There it is. That's how I would feel about it. That's why I sold the rootbeer GMT I had, bad juju.

[2th Dr]

Dan, I respect that you are going to accept the return for a full refund. I believe in the end, Chozn1 should not lose a single dime, including the cost of shipping.

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by daneebee

Hi Chozn1.. No worries.. I was wondering where you were, and waiting to hear from you. Like i told you the last time we spoke on the phone, you are welcome to either send the watch back for a refund, or repair. Your choice.. So go ahead and send it back for a full refund.. You have my address.. Thanks, Dan....

Dan, As I've been critical of your previous handling of this issue I will also say at this point that you have now offered an acceptable correction.. The buyer should be satisfied if all goes well from here.

Originally Posted by 2th DR

Dan, I respect that you are going to accept the return for a full refund. I believe in the end, Chozn1 should not lose a single dime, including the cost of shipping.

X2 .....

[Chozn1]

Have the boards been hacked again? This is about my 5th attempt at login.

Anyway, refund received and he intended to include the shipping price, but whoever wrote the check while he was out of town did their math wrong. I honestly don't care about that though. He included a nice note and I'm not one to whine about a pithy amount in the scheme of things. The fact he oversaw it while out of town rather than waiting to get back meant more. All is well.

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by Chozn1

Have the boards been hacked again? This is about my 5th attempt at login.

Anyway, refund received and he intended to include the shipping price, but whoever wrote the check while he was out of town did their math wrong. I honestly don't care about that though. He included a nice note and I'm not one to whine about a pithy amount in the scheme of things. The fact he oversaw it while out of town rather than waiting to get back meant more. All is well.

Nice to hear it worked out.

Good on you Dan for dealing with this issue.

[Pawnografik]

I know this issue has been resolved but I'd just like to say how amazingly refreshing it was.

Both parties had their say in a responsible manner, no names were thrown, no-one got banned at the end of it and ultimately rationality prevailed.

I'd also like to point out to daneebee that although the tide of opinion was against you, much to your credit, you realised this and changed your approach accordingly. I'm a noob on the TRF but your actions in this thread show that you are someone who cares about your reputation. You may feel this thread persists forever as a blot on your name but I'd like you to know that after reading my way through this I wouldn't have any issues dealing with you.

Lovely to see things resolved in a civilized manner. Very rare on the internet, especially with money involved. Well done all.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Pawnografik

I know this issue has been resolved but I'd just like to say how amazingly refreshing it was.

Both parties had their say in a responsible manner, no names were thrown, no-one got banned at the end of it and ultimately rationality prevailed.

I'd also like to point out to daneebee that although the tide of opinion was against you, much to your credit, you realised this and changed your approach accordingly. I'm a noob on the TRF but your actions in this thread show that you are someone who cares about your reputation. You may feel this thread persists forever as a blot on your name but I'd like you to know that after reading my way through this I wouldn't have any issues dealing with you.

Lovely to see things resolved in a civilized manner. Very rare on the internet, especially with money involved. Well done all.