Why NOT go to the AD?

[Cc1966]

I have bought locally at my AD and from on-line grey sellers. Two very different experiences. While the end result was the watch I desired, I would not trade the time spent at the AD building a good rapport and getting to know the folks there ~ along with supporting my local businesses. I believe all Rolex owners should experience the AD route at least once. JMHO...

[BillA]

Some people just have extra money to burn

[coralfarmer84]

Originally Posted by Jake B

That's just silly. Going to an upmarket restaurant you get a steak cooked to perfection by a professional chef. It's likely a heckuva lot better than you'll get from your freezer full of beef at home.

The AD on the other hand, adds nothing to the experience besides a higher price and a cup of tea in a green chair.

But the issue at hand is this. Everyone wants to see what they are buying in person first. So what happens is people go to the AD try on the watches waste the ADs time then buy from a grey dealer. It's really disgusting to knowingly use someone for their resources knowing the whole time you have no intention on dealing with them.

You don't waltz into the 5 star restaurant pretending to be interested in buying their steak, insist on trying it first, learn as much as you can about it, then leave without spending a penny heading straight for your grey market steak dealer to buy the same meat for less.

To put some perspective on a few other things.

"Grey dealers get their inventory from ADs so everyone's in the loop"- ok well if you notice a lot of these watches have non US warranty certs meaning technically they were brought into the country ILLEGALLY according to Rolex USA and customs policies. Correct?

"Two words sales and tax" - I assume you never shop at your local stores for ANYTHING and even buy your groceries and toilet paper online to avoid the dreaded evil local business from doing its civic duty. The AD doesn't make a cent on the sales tax, if they could they wouldn't charge it because after all it's not benificial to them. Buying anything sans sales tax from the state you live in is technically breaking the law. I'm sure a lot of trusted sellers sell watches to customers in their state of residence tax free and are hence not in compliance with the law.

Just my .02. And for the record I do buy from trusted sellers as well as my AD.

[coralfarmer84]

Originally Posted by BillA

Some people just have extra money to burn

If someone doesn't have the money to "burn" why are they buying luxury watches to begin with? I'm all for getting a good deal but I wouldn't live beyond my means. If anything hurts the Rolex brand it's this. Why do you think fads happen? Because the item is at first only worn by the upper class if you will then all of a sudden the dude making minimum wage saved enough to buy it used from his thrift store. Then everyone is wearing it so no one wants to wear it. It's no longer exclusive. I give you the Ed Hardy experience

[Rags]

I have dealt with Tony Geha(Justrolexes) three times & each time has been a great experience & I've saved considerable money. To some the AD experience is needed but for me I'll deal with any of the trusted sellers here anytime over a AD.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

But the issue at hand is this. Everyone wants to see what they are buying in person first. So what happens is people go to the AD try on the watches waste the ADs time then buy from a grey dealer. It's really disgusting to knowingly use someone for their resources knowing the whole time you have no intention on dealing with them.

You don't waltz into the 5 star restaurant pretending to be interested in buying their steak, insist on trying it first, learn as much as you can about it, then leave without spending a penny heading straight for your grey market steak dealer to buy the same meat for less.

To put some perspective on a few other things.

"Grey dealers get their inventory from ADs so everyone's in the loop"- ok well if you notice a lot of these watches have non US warranty certs meaning technically they were brought into the country ILLEGALLY according to Rolex USA and customs policies. Correct?

"Two words sales and tax" - I assume you never shop at your local stores for ANYTHING and even buy your groceries and toilet paper online to avoid the dreaded evil local business from doing its civic duty. The AD doesn't make a cent on the sales tax, if they could they wouldn't charge it because after all it's not benificial to them. Buying anything sans sales tax from the state you live in is technically breaking the law. I'm sure a lot of trusted sellers sell watches to customers in their state of residence tax free and are hence not in compliance with the law.

Just my .02. And for the record I do buy from trusted sellers as well as my AD.

You're assuming that the situation is the same everywhere as it is in your home country. It isn't.

[nygo]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

If someone doesn't have the money to "burn" why are they buying luxury watches to begin with? I'm all for getting a good deal but I wouldn't live beyond my means. If anything hurts the Rolex brand it's this.

there is something to be said about that. after all, a GShock tells excellent time as well…

[nygo]

anyway -- all in the spirit of debate. i hope no one has taken any offense. love this forum and the different perspectives everyone has.

[Spartacus]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

But the issue at hand is this. Everyone wants to see what they are buying in person first. So what happens is people go to the AD try on the watches waste the ADs time then buy from a grey dealer. It's really disgusting to knowingly use someone for their resources knowing the whole time you have no intention on dealing with them.

You don't waltz into the 5 star restaurant pretending to be interested in buying their steak, insist on trying it first, learn as much as you can about it, then leave without spending a penny heading straight for your grey market steak dealer to buy the same meat for less.

To put some perspective on a few other things.

"Grey dealers get their inventory from ADs so everyone's in the loop"- ok well if you notice a lot of these watches have non US warranty certs meaning technically they were brought into the country ILLEGALLY according to Rolex USA and customs policies. Correct?

"Two words sales and tax" - I assume you never shop at your local stores for ANYTHING and even buy your groceries and toilet paper online to avoid the dreaded evil local business from doing its civic duty. The AD doesn't make a cent on the sales tax, if they could they wouldn't charge it because after all it's not benificial to them. Buying anything sans sales tax from the state you live in is technically breaking the law. I'm sure a lot of trusted sellers sell watches to customers in their state of residence tax free and are hence not in compliance with the law.

Just my .02. And for the record I do buy from trusted sellers as well as my AD.

Well said.

[ecsub44]

Originally Posted by Jake B

That's just silly. Going to an upmarket restaurant you get a steak cooked to perfection by a professional chef. It's likely a heckuva lot better than you'll get from your freezer full of beef at home.

The AD on the other hand, adds nothing to the experience besides a higher price and a cup of tea in a green chair.

Agree! That wasn't the best analogy.

[mgent]

My Grey Dealer always provides a great experience, is a small local shop who specializes in watches, specifically AP and Patek, and is a vintage Patek collector himself... If I wanted champagne, he would offer it, and does to my wife.. He can get just about any new watch at a good discount, etc, etc, etc...

To me, the biggest difference is watch knowledge. I find it frustrating walking into Tourneau, rolex boutiques, panerai boutiques, etc... and the sales people know very little about the watches. I don't expect them to be a crazy knowledgeable expert on all brands, modern, vintage, etc, but at least know what you offer and know enough to hold a decent conversation other than 'its big' or 'its rare' or 'price increasing'... If i'm going to pay list or close to it, give me a reason to by answering questions I'm not sure about. My guy can answer those questions, and the next ones that follow and gives good pricing on purchases and trades.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

Everyone wants to see what they are buying in person first. So what happens is people go to the AD try on the watches waste the ADs time then buy from a grey dealer.

That's a pretty strong generalization. I'm sure some people do that, but I've bought plenty of watches online without ever wasting an AD's time.

Frankly, I've never had a very good "AD experience" so I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for it. I've had salespeople insult my Air-King, give me wrong information, and ask if I'm planning on buying immediately before even offering me help. I know there are good AD's out there, but I haven't found one for me yet. At this point I'm mostly interested in discontinued models so it's kind of a moot point.

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

a lot of these watches have non US warranty certs meaning technically they were brought into the country ILLEGALLY according to Rolex USA and customs policies. Correct?

Maybe. Or maybe they were worn into the US. If you want to avoid those watches, that's cool; to me they seem to make up only a minority of the watches for sale from US sellers. And as Jake mentioned, this is a US-only issue anyway.

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

I'm sure a lot of trusted sellers sell watches to customers in their state of residence tax free and are hence not in compliance with the law.

Do you have a particular reason to be sure of this?

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Yes if you buy a Rolex in Japan, AD or not and it has a valid warranty in your name or not Rolex USA will service it.

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Rolex warranty cards are valid worldwide, for whoever holds the warranty card. Not so for Tudor, which only have a limited warranty. Likewise, an RSC two-year movement warranty will be honoured at any RSC worldwide. So the RSC in Hong Kong tells me, anyway.

That's good to know.

Rolex

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

Wesley, this is only my thought on what goes on from wondering about it myself. It seems to me that all grey goods, not just Rolexes, came from someone the manufacturer originally sold them to. So since authorized dealers are the only ones Rolex sells to, EVERY Rolex came out of an AD in the beginning. Perhaps there are exceptions, like a watch presented to the winner of a Rolex sponsored sporting event or some special group thing handled by corporate directly, like maybe the GMT with PanAm.

What I think the difference is, if an AD in some foreign country is going to sell 20 watches to Costco or larger internet retailer like Alan Furman, they won't sell it with the warranty card. I'd imagine that the AD contract with Rolex does not allow them to sell to another reseller and with a company like Costco this is hard to hide/deny if caught. Even if this isn't the case it is likely the AD wouldn't want someone buying a watch at a well known retailer/discounter that can be traced back to them by the mother ship. It is also probable that these large retailers don't want the warranty card anyway because they also don't want the vendor disclosed, which they obviously would be doing if they included the warranty card with the watch. So these retailers agree to buy the watches without the warranty cards and offer their own warranty in its place.

But I assume that even the watches we see occasionally at Costco came out of an AD in the beginning of its journey.

Just my best guess at it.

I thought about that, too. I wonder, can Rolex look up a serial number and trace it back to the AD?

I'm sure part of the reason why Rolex is pulling out of ADs and focusing on their own boutiques is to kill the Rolex grey market.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

But the issue at hand is this. Everyone wants to see what they are buying in person first. So what happens is people go to the AD try on the watches waste the ADs time then buy from a grey dealer. It's really disgusting to knowingly use someone for their resources knowing the whole time you have no intention on dealing with them.

You don't waltz into the 5 star restaurant pretending to be interested in buying their steak, insist on trying it first, learn as much as you can about it, then leave without spending a penny heading straight for your grey market steak dealer to buy the same meat for less.

Come on this is nonsense. It is about price and value. If an AD offers me the same price as a trusted or anyone else for a BNIB then ofc I will buy from them first, but if their price is higher then I am not going to buy from them like a mug. Similarly if two Michelin restaurants sell the exact same steak prepared exactly the same way but one charges far more than the other then guess where I am going to eat?

[AK797]

I think the grey market really refers to watches sold across borders without the tax paid. Otherwise all Rolexes come from ADs and are just sold on either straight to the public or to dealers.

[Brucie D]

I think something we can all agree on is that it is great TRF welcomes all opinions and fosters interesting and engaging round table discussions like this. I doubt when the OP wrote this he expected everyone to come to a consensus. I think the take-away from all of this is we have a very passionate Rolex group here who aren't afraid to say what is on their minds.

Hooray for freedom! Cheers.

[joere]

Originally Posted by Brucie D

I think something we can all agree on is that it is great TRF welcomes all opinions and fosters interesting and engaging round table discussions like this. I doubt when the OP wrote this he expected everyone to come to a consensus. I think the take-away from all of this is we have a very passionate Rolex group here who aren't afraid to say what is on their minds.

Hooray for freedom! Cheers.

Agreed! Also remember, some Rolex forums prohibit sales of NIB Rolexes on their classified board!

[coralfarmer84]

Originally Posted by Brucie D

I think something we can all agree on is that it is great TRF welcomes all opinions and fosters interesting and engaging round table discussions like this. I doubt when the OP wrote this he expected everyone to come to a consensus. I think the take-away from all of this is we have a very passionate Rolex group here who aren't afraid to say what is on their minds.

Hooray for freedom! Cheers.

We'll said. I mean no offense to anyone and could care less how they acquire these beautiful watches. I was simply raising awareness that there is a reason watches can be acquired cheaper threw various outlets and SOME people act foolish bragging about how they essentially use the AD as a showroom then buy online and brag about how cool they are for it.

I too would be foolish to overpay for anything in life, but I can be objective about it.

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

But the issue at hand is this. Everyone wants to see what they are buying in person first. So what happens is people go to the AD try on the watches waste the ADs time then buy from a grey dealer. It's really disgusting to knowingly use someone for their resources knowing the whole time you have no intention on dealing with them.

You don't waltz into the 5 star restaurant pretending to be interested in buying their steak, insist on trying it first, learn as much as you can about it, then leave without spending a penny heading straight for your grey market steak dealer to buy the same meat for less.

To put some perspective on a few other things.

"Grey dealers get their inventory from ADs so everyone's in the loop"- ok well if you notice a lot of these watches have non US warranty certs meaning technically they were brought into the country ILLEGALLY according to Rolex USA and customs policies. Correct?

"Two words sales and tax" - I assume you never shop at your local stores for ANYTHING and even buy your groceries and toilet paper online to avoid the dreaded evil local business from doing its civic duty. The AD doesn't make a cent on the sales tax, if they could they wouldn't charge it because after all it's not benificial to them. Buying anything sans sales tax from the state you live in is technically breaking the law. I'm sure a lot of trusted sellers sell watches to customers in their state of residence tax free and are hence not in compliance with the law.

Just my .02. And for the record I do buy from trusted sellers as well as my AD.

I think the problem many people in this thread have had me included is the unwillingness of an AD to compromise any on the price of the watch. Now, I am not talking about walking right in the AD and immediately demanding a 20% discount on my first purchase there. Do some of you just walk in a car dealership and pay sticker also?

I had funds and was willing to buy from 2 different local AD's and when I mentioned the word 'discount' even a small one to cover sales tax I was looked at like I called their mother a name. This is even after they were totally clueless about the product they were selling me and going through the whole spiel of "A price increase is coming any day now" etc. so I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I tried it didn't work out.

So I said forget it and bought from a Trusted Seller here and had a great experience got the watch at a great price and dealt with someone that had great customer service and knew about the product they were selling me.

[PerioBear]

I've only bought from one AD to establish a nice relationship. I also only deal with the son of the owner. My discount is fine and has been close to what I have seen on the FS section. With buying from an AD I get cleaning and polishing (if desired), bracelet resizing anytime (which is key for me cuz my wrist swells in the summer) along with other customer service perks. He has never charged me for an appraisel for insurance. I am picky about some things and that includes my watches. Whenever I have bought a watch it has come directly from the Rolex and not from my AD's case. He is ok with that. Also, when I bought my Cellinium, I was very picky about my strap and he asked Rolex to send about a dozen more so I could pick and choose which strap I wanted. Also, since I went for the deployant clasp, the only strap available had the white stitching. I prefer black stitching. He had a leather guy dye the white stitching black the way i wanted. All at NC. A couple of years ago I was given tickets to the US Open at Olympic club which included access to the Rolex hospitality tent. Nice experience. However, the main reason for my buying from my AD is peace of mind. If I ever have a problem, I just pop into my AD and he'll take care of it. Also, at time of servicing he will service it at his location (less than RSC $) or send it in for me. Lastly, I intend to leave my collection to my son and since the owner's son is young, I believe my son will also not have a problem in the future. Yes, I may have paid more than if I bought grey but service and peace mind make it up to me.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

That's good to know.

Rolex



I thought about that, too. I wonder, can Rolex look up a serial number and trace it back to the AD?

I'm sure part of the reason why Rolex is pulling out of ADs and focusing on their own boutiques is to kill the Rolex grey market.

I'm not sure about the serial number thing.

As for going to boutiques, don't know how that is happening worldwide but here in the USA as far as I know except for maybe one or two cases they are not company owned so I don't see that changing the grey market much. I think the boutique thing is more about image and marketing.

[Dr. Robert]

I cannot shop in the nude at an AD, however I can be naked as a jay bird & shop at the TRF bazaar!

[jay1988]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

But the issue at hand is this. Everyone wants to see what they are buying in person first. So what happens is people go to the AD try on the watches waste the ADs time then buy from a grey dealer. It's really disgusting to knowingly use someone for their resources knowing the whole time you have no intention on dealing with them.
.

The key for me is to find an AD who has deceived me about a price increase. I have a few AD's in mind who have told me the price increase was coming.

Would be more than happy to waltz in there and take a free coffee and look at all the watches. It's just as disgusting to lie to a customer about a price rise to try and bait them into doing business. I'll happily take their "resources" as compensation.

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by T. Ferguson

I'm not sure about the serial number thing.

As for going to boutiques, don't know how that is happening worldwide but here in the USA as far as I know except for maybe one or two cases they are not company owned so I don't see that changing the grey market much. I think the boutique thing is more about image and marketing.

Oh? I thought they were owned by Rolex. In that case, I guess they grey market isn't going away anytime soon.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Dr. Robert

I cannot shop in the nude at an AD, however I can be naked as a jay bird & shop at the TRF bazaar!

and there it is Bob.


the best argument I have seen on this thread for a trusted seller.

Elvis has left the building!

[Onikage]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

This is sort of silly; every owner of property has the right to sell it. Rolexes are no exception as long as they are correctly represented. Grey market my butt. Used Rolexes is all they are whether or not they've been worn.

Not sure how a bnib becomes used automatically when it hasn't been offered with chocolates at an AD but alright..

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Oh? I thought they were owned by Rolex. In that case, I guess they grey market isn't going away anytime soon.

At this point in time it seems they have all pretty much been opened by existing ADs. Here's a couple of recent threads regarding Rolex owned stores:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...ight=boutiques

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...ight=boutiques


I'm not convinced Rolex really is interested in going the all company owned route anyway. My theory is for all the posturing by Rolex, while they surely monitor AD discounts and the grey market to make sure things don't get out of hand, some level of activity in both these channels is probably allowed with a wink-wink/nod-nod, don't ask don't tell attitude. Surely their revenues would suffer if all Rolex sales were through company owned stores with no discounting. And then they would be in the position of having to officially allow discounting to recapture that revenue. Once this happens they'd have a hard time ever going back to demanding close to full MSRP again.

My theory is the grey market serves a function for Rolex, allowing them to reach certain volumes they wouldn't achieve if there was no discounting. It also serves as a back alley channel where the level of discounts doesn't become common knowledge in the marketplace at large, like say the discounting that goes on for Breitlings through official retail channels.

[Onikage]

Anyone else feel this way? Even after all the folk who tried it on, a watch has to tick its way off the AD forecourt before it is "used"?

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Onikage

Not sure how a bnib becomes used automatically when it hasn't been offered with chocolates at an AD but alright..

It's definitional. Used is something previously purchased and resold by other than an authorized retailer. Same goes with cars and many other items. If it was bought from an authorized retailer it is no longer considered new regardless of how little it was used.

[Onikage]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

It's definitional. Used is something previously purchased and resold by other than an authorized retailer. Same goes with cars and many other items. If it was bought from an authorized retailer it is no longer considered new regardless of how little it was used.

I know what you're saying but a watch doesn't have tires to get marked. It could even be said that some grey dealer stock is in better condition as it hasn't been tried on as much.