What the heck have RSC's been on about??!!

[Dan S]

Are we really doing this again?

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I hear ya, man, but I'm sure Rolex would rather you not have back your old $3,000 bezel insert that you could then sell to the next guy, whom they would MUCH rather have walk into an RSC so they could sell him a new one. Doesn't make it alright, of course.

Yes.. I think you have nailed the issue right there with that insightful comment...!

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Are we really doing this again?

Doing what again?

You mean this issue has been raised before and Rolex has done nothing about it?

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by 116710er

This is by design. Rolex makes it VERY difficult, if not damn near impossible for independents to get the parts that they need for service so the cost of the parts are high which raises the cost of the service by independents.

If more independents were allowed to hold these unicorn "parts accounts", independents would be less expensive.


To add to the OP's original discussion, I couldn't agree with you more. I've had a few issues with RSC on just ONE watch. In my experience, they absolutely give ZERO F's about your watch and your requests. They may or may not honor your requests and when they do mess up, you'll have to fight them to get some sort of resolution. The best part, when they do F up, they PERMANENTLY damage the value of the watch...and of course, they don't care.

Indeed.

Thanks for your support.. so how come Rolex have got away with this behaviour so long?... under consumer law and all?
Isn't this anti-competitive behaviour (against the independants)?

I mean I can't believe it frankly... maybe in the 1970's... but this is 'Merica (land of the Consumer) and it's now 2020..

[wappinghigh]

Ok lets narrow down to a question raised here on this thread..
How is it that Rolex is effectively allowed to steal your $1-3,000 bezel/other vintage part?
Without your consent?
Or is it in the fine print somewhere (that they can do that) whenever you sign in your watch prior to a service at an RSC?
And further... many people say not to worry about buying vintage without papers... just take it along for a genuine RSC service and Rolex will verify your watch is legitimate for you...issuing you a new warranty and validation card...
But how do you do that with a vintage Rolex?.. If, Rolex is going to take your watch away and swap out the vintage parts?
Isn't that an oxymoron?
Why can't they just take a look at the watch (if that is all you want) and issue a report on it?.. email you the report.. then ask if/then/what you want to be done (with the watch)?
Why does this it seem to be so difficult for Rolex at their RSC's? - in this modern age of email, digital and mobile communication?

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by Ignace Worang

That’s weird.....I sent my 6265 via local ad to Rolex Geneve and got options to keep the watch as is. They’ll change the mainspring and service it and nothing else....estimated time of completion is 6 months. I am not familiar with other RSC’s but if it is vintage, better contact Geneve directly.

Could you kindly tell us what RSC in Geneve classifies as "vintage"?
Is this a world wide Rolex policy, or are RSC's actually independent businesses? (ie make their own decisions)?
Does the Rolex RSC you are referring to accept watches to be appraised in this fashion from OS?

Thank you

[swaini3]

Its not just Rolex Geneve that do that. I know of 3 RSC that will comply to owner's instructions if needed to such as (do not polish, keep the hands and dial etc.). I think RSC have loosened up on their policies. Just my opinion.

[Claven2]

Op's original post = cringeworthy to me.

Some perspective:

Prior to 1988, the 157x movements were not vintage or collectible, they were the norm.

Prior to 1988, those watches were just current models that got spruced up at service. Nobody worried about the 2020 collector's viewpoint.

If you buy a new ceramic sub today, will you be upset if it gets serviced and a few broken, worn or ugly parts get replaced by rsc? Most owners (99% are not collectors and only own one rolex) are just grateful that the replacements were covered as part of the service fee.

Look at the car you drive. If someone backs into your fender, will you leave the crumpled panel there and tell your friends it's patina? Doubtful. But 50 years from now someone will wish you had done that so they could painstakingly document that the part is original, and they might even pay big bucks to have it straightened, more than they would spend just replacing it even then.

Also, if every gmt master from 1970 was still perfectly original, would they be as collectible and cost what they do now? Nope.

Lastly, 10 years ago before hodinkee started hammering that genuine replacement parts were a bad thing, the current hype machine over vintage rolex originality was non-existent. People paid to have these watches restored to like new at an rsc and charged more for such examples. This was not all that long ago.

There was a market shift away from valuing watches with cool features and complications (back then, grand complications and tourbillons were the auction stars) toward plain model watches from 50 years ago that had never been serviced.

Mark my words, that trend will change again to something else once some new watch collecting influence becomes more popular than sites like hodinkee or influencers like john mayer and swings the trend pendulum some other way.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by swaini3

Its not just Rolex Geneve that do that. I know of 3 RSC that will comply to owner's instructions if needed to such as (do not polish, keep the hands and dial etc.). I think RSC have loosened up on their policies. Just my opinion.

Toronto rsc will honor those requests. They will just not agree to return changed watch head parts if you ask for the change. They will return old bracelets unless they are PM. The pm ones are retained to offset their charge for a new one. You can have it back, but then the new bracelet will cost more to offset the gold value trade in.

[Sublovin]

I don’t understand why people can’t understand Rolex’s take on vintage (too Many understands maybe?). They make watches that are designed to function reliably and accurately. Most vintage watches with “patina” are nothing more than old watches with “damage”.
If you want to preserve the “damage”, don’t send it to the company who will want to rightfully restore it to full working order. Rolex is a watch manufacturer, not a collectors club.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Doing what again?

You mean this issue has been raised before and Rolex has done nothing about it?

Thank you, I understand now. Despite the fact these exact same points and issues have been beaten to death in dozens of other threads (typically on a monthly basis), this time Rolex will take note of the concerns of RF members and change their policies, because you started a new thread.

Carry on.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Thank you, I understand now. Despite the fact these exact same points and issues have been beaten to death in dozens of other threads (typically on a monthly basis), this time Rolex will take note of the concerns of RF members and change their policies, because you started a new thread.

Carry on.

Tagged for appreciation of great sarcasm :)

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by Claven2

Toronto rsc will honor those requests. They will just not agree to return changed watch head parts if you ask for the change. They will return old bracelets unless they are PM. The pm ones are retained to offset their charge for a new one. You can have it back, but then the new bracelet will cost more to offset the gold value trade in.

[tekno]

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[Ignace Worang]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Could you kindly tell us what RSC in Geneve classifies as "vintage"?
Is this a world wide Rolex policy, or are RSC's actually independent businesses? (ie make their own decisions)?
Does the Rolex RSC you are referring to accept watches to be appraised in this fashion from OS?

Thank you

My local ad classify watch as vintage if they don’t have parts or unable to do repair by themselves. Ad communicated with Geneve and got reply to send it over to Geneve....fyi, we don’t have any RSC. Not sure about worldwide policy but I know others that went the Geneve route and all were treated the same way.

[amanbra]

Rolex are taking the somewhat sensible approach of getting the watch back to it's original sale state and functionality. It's sorta like taking a 30 year old car in for service and they replace the light bulbs, wiper blades etc because they're not working anymore. Then us collectors are like hey that wiper blade has awesome patina don't touch it you'll take thousands off my car value...

Now in saying that if you tell them not to replace any original parts they don't right?

[donq]

Try taking your 1970’s era car to a dealership and see what kind of enthusiasm you get in regards to performing an engine rebuild.

We’re lucky they even mess with these old things.

Rolexes biggest competition these days is vintage Rolex.
They would much rather sell you a new one than deal with a bunch of
fussy nerds worrying about a bezel insert.

We are a very small part of their customer base, and probably not worth the trouble in their eyes.

[tekno]

They sell new watches, and fix the old ones like new. If they wouldn’t have “fixed” so many watches they wouldn’t be as rare in original condition.


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[vintagewatch]

I have a 1954 Rolex 6204 (1st Submariner) that I took in person to NYC RSC about 2 years ago for service. I was told that "Heritage Service" in Switzerland would only use original parts (circa 1950s) if available. Sounded great until the cost of this service was discussed. If all parts were available, including dial, the estimate was north of $25,000 US.

[tekno]

Wow


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[SOG DIVER]

As the original owner of a 1680 red 1969 Submariner, I can see some wisdom in using an RSC for a modern watch. This 1680 was purchased on leave from VN with an extra bracelet and 4 crystals. It has never seen an RSC but has visited upper level independents. For those of us who dive and depend on our watches, a dive
computer is a more serious error in judgment. If it fails -you have depended on
an entity that could cost your life. Like an RSC - replaced gilt dial on a 5512 Submariner.
For vintage watches, due diligence is always the answer. I have avoided these problems, others not so much. Think the Ridleys or Rik Dietel.-Quality care.

[S329]

Just adding to this discussion, I dropped off my 1680 Red Sub off at RSC NY a couple days ago. Only reason I went in was to purchase a 93150 bracelet plus end links as I don’t have one. Obviously I was hoping they would see the watch and sell it to me on the spot, the service rep took the watch in the back and came back a few moments later informing me that they would have to do an authentication/verification process. This entails sending the watch to Pennsylvania, it will take 2-3 weeks and cost $275 (once verified this will go to the cost of the bracelet). I’m fine with this. My main concern was RSC under no circumstances attempt to service the watch or replace any parts and no polishing. I was as explicit as I could be. They seemed to understand this and assured me this is simply a verification process where they will open the watch and make sure it’s authentic. I actually like the idea of this to be honest plus I get a NOS bracelet. Now the wait continues....

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by S329

Just adding to this discussion, I dropped off my 1680 Red Sub off at RSC NY a couple days ago. Only reason I went in was to purchase a 93150 bracelet plus end links as I don’t have one. Obviously I was hoping they would see the watch and sell it to me on the spot, the service rep took the watch in the back and came back a few moments later informing me that they would have to do an authentication/verification process. This entails sending the watch to Pennsylvania, it will take 2-3 weeks and cost $275 (once verified this will go to the cost of the bracelet). I’m fine with this. My main concern was RSC under no circumstances attempt to service the watch or replace any parts and no polishing. I was as explicit as I could be. They seemed to understand this and assured me this is simply a verification process where they will open the watch and make sure it’s authentic. I actually like the idea of this to be honest plus I get a NOS bracelet. Now the wait continues....

Did you sign anything? Like a document that guarantees your watch will be returned in it's original state?

[S329]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Did you sign anything? Like a document that guarantees your watch will be returned in it's original state?

Yes there is documentation signed where I have to check off a box stating this is strictly an evaluation only service request. They also gave me paperwork with a reference number and the serial number of my watch.

The language is as follows:

“Dear valued customer,

We would like thank you for you allowing us the opportunity to evaluate your timepiece. Upon evaluation by a Rolex trained technician, a customer service representative will review our findings and next steps involved in your service request”

The rest of the letter is mostly about the pickup process and numbers i can call should I have any inquiries

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by S329

Yes there is documentation signed where I have to check off a box stating this is strictly an evaluation only service request. They also gave me paperwork with a reference number and the serial number of my watch.

The language is as follows:

“Dear valued customer,

We would like thank you for you allowing us the opportunity to evaluate your timepiece. Upon evaluation by a Rolex trained technician, a customer service representative will review our findings and next steps involved in your service request”

The rest of the letter is mostly about the pickup process and numbers i can call should I have any inquiries

Cool.. now I know where to take my vintage rolex for verification.
please keep us informed how you go..
I would travel over 15,000 km to NYC just to do this..
...bring on the direct flights...
Is it NY? or NYC?

Cheers

[S329]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Cool.. now I know where to take my vintage rolex for verification.
please keep us informed how you go..
I would travel over 15,000 km to NYC just to do this..
...bring on the direct flights...
Is it NY? or NYC?

Cheers

I live in Manhattan so this is the main RSC closest to me.
This is the main location on 5th ave.

[wappinghigh]

^ Excellent. Thanks for the help and keep us posted!

[Ondeulf]

I have a 1680 Thats overhauled by RSC. I asked them to do it, kinda like the white sub with Brand new parts and working lume. I think this is a mutch better watch now with new parts :D and i dont think they have destroyed anything😁

[Tavli3]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Why are you so frantic?

I mean come on, who asks questions this frantically?

Is this what I’m reading?

Frantic questions about the intentions of RSC?

What is the explanation for this behavior?

Who are you?

What do you mean?

What do you want TRF to do?

Send your watch to Omega for service and see what happens!
A friend of mine who I had no idea had a beautiful vintage Speedie saw mine one night we were out to dinner and said I have one of those and I just sent it to Omega for a service. After my face went from ghastly white back to natural flesh color I said you need to call first thing in the morning to make sure you get the original parts back! He questioned what I was talking about cause he said all he's getting is a routine service and I said Stu when you get your watch back it will be worth less than half it was before you sent it for a service. Sure enough it came back with replaced everything. Luckily he somehow got the original components back and I took him to a watchmaker to reinstall the original parts.

So RSC is not doing anything different than any other brand with vintage watches.

[brandrea]

Missed the original post but this was a good read