Recent service changes to 31xx movements??

[Dirt]

I understand there are occassional changes or updates to service parts.
My question relates to my recently serviced 116660 which is absolutely sublime to wind and set. It was great the last time it was serviced in 2017 and better than it was from new, but it's superb now

More specifically my question relates to when i came to set the time, there was no appreciable springy backlash of the Minute hand when turning the hands backward which made setting the time easier than it's ever been.

Does anyone with more intimate knowledge around this have any insight they may care to share as to why this may be so?
Have there been any updated parts for the 3135 which would contribute to the reduced springy backlash?

Many thanks

[saxo3]

Interesting observation and question

[SearChart]

Your centre pinion and cannon pinion might be lubricated a little heavier than it came with from the factory, and/or they were replaced.
These two parts connect the hand setting to the gear train side of the movement, thus also powering the hands.

When you use them to change the time, the cannon pinion slips over the centre pinion.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Your centre pinion and cannon pinion might be lubricated a little heavier than it came with from the factory, and/or they were replaced.
These two parts connect the hand setting to the gear train side of the movement, thus also powering the hands.

When you use them to change the time, the cannon pinion slips over the centre pinion.

Great.
Many thanks for that. It's along the lines of what I was holding in the furthest recesses of my mind about Cannon pinion tension.
The confirmation is greatly appreciated.

If they had changed the Cannom pinion or Centre pinion, would it be a chargeable item?
Originally, the quote only included an extra charge for what was described as the Oscillating weight and nothing else as an extra. Frankly I just passed it off as being the axle post was replaced due to excessive wear otherwise the Oscillating weight would've potentially damaged other items which may also need replacement. To that, I've never literally heard any rattling around inside the watch.
Or was it simply a matter of the jewelled bearings being replaced as part of the Oscilating weight with it classed as being an assembly?

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Great.
Many thanks for that. It's along the lines of what I was holding in the furthest recesses of my mind about Cannon pinion tension.
The confirmation is greatly appreciated.

If they had changed the Cannom pinion or Centre pinion, would it be a chargeable item?
Originally, the quote only included an extra charge for what was described as the Oscillating weight and nothing else as an extra. Frankly I just passed it off as being the axle post was replaced due to excessive wear otherwise the Oscillating weight would've potentially damaged other items which may also need replacement. To that, I've never literally heard any rattling around inside the watch.
Or was it simply a matter of the jewelled bearings being replaced as part of the Oscilating weight with it classed as being an assembly?

The cannon and centre pinion are a set, and are commonly replaced, it is not a chargeable item and is covered by the service cost.

The oscillating weight / rotor might have had a very worn out axle and hit either the bridges or the caseback, causing the rhodium plating to wear off. The plating on the rotor is pretty flakey and easily lets larger chunks loose which would get into the movement. It frequently needs replacing on the 31xx movements.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by SearChart

The cannon and centre pinion are a set, and are commonly replaced, it is not a chargeable item and is covered by the service cost.

The oscillating weight / rotor might have had a very worn out axle and hit either the bridges or the caseback, causing the rhodium plating to wear off. The plating on the rotor is pretty flakey and easily lets larger chunks loose which would get into the movement. It frequently needs replacing on the 31xx movements.

Thankyou so much for sharing your insights.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by SearChart

The cannon and centre pinion are a set, and are commonly replaced, it is not a chargeable item and is covered by the service cost.

The oscillating weight / rotor might have had a very worn out axle and hit either the bridges or the caseback, causing the rhodium plating to wear off. The plating on the rotor is pretty flakey and easily lets larger chunks loose which would get into the movement. It frequently needs replacing on the 31xx movements.

Bas, that is EXACTLY what I thought…. I mean, the oscillating…. Axle of the rack and pinion steering module, next to the flux capacitor and the carburetor… With the … uhm.. er…. Valve train….


I wish I were as smart as you.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Bas, that is EXACTLY what I thought…. I mean, the oscillating…. Axle of the rack and pinion steering module, next to the flux capacitor and the carburetor… With the … uhm.. er…. Valve train….


I wish I were as smart as you.

I'm just a watchmaker, you're a fighter pilot, much more skill and intelligence needed for that

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Bas, that is EXACTLY what I thought…. I mean, the oscillating…. Axle of the rack and pinion steering module, next to the flux capacitor and the carburetor… With the … uhm.. er…. Valve train….


I wish I were as smart as you.

I’m right there with you. I refer to all the Rolex parts as “dumaflickies”

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by SearChart

I'm just a watchmaker, you're a fighter pilot, much more skill and intelligence needed for that

Intelligence and skill required for both me thinks

[007Sub]

Seachart is correct. It may also be that the original cannon pinion was tightened.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Bas, that is EXACTLY what I thought…. I mean, the oscillating…. Axle of the rack and pinion steering module, next to the flux capacitor and the carburetor… With the … uhm.. er…. Valve train….


I wish I were as smart as you.

I agree with Paul.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by 007Sub

Seachart is correct. It may also be that the original cannon pinion was tightened.

I considered that Rolex wouldn't bother with mucking around with that and simply replace it out of expediency. Bas had indicated it would be replaced as a set along with the Centre pinion
From my understanding, tightening the tension can be a little tricky in that just that little fraction more could end up being way too much
In that regard it could be a counter productive exercise

Still, with everything else basically working fine with the watch from my point of view and end user experience. I wonder what criterior was met that would require replacement or any changes with regard to the Cannon pinion.
Anyway, that would be yet another question

[Denniscohle]

Very interesting and thanks for the observation. I have a 3135 sub that goes into service soon.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Denniscohle

Very interesting and thanks for the observation. I have a 3135 sub that goes into service soon.

3135 is an honest workhorse regardless of its flaws

Further to the above.
Bas initially mentioned that they possibly lubed the Cannon pinion a little heavier than is customary.
On reflection I would be inclined to agree with this analysis as it fits best as an explanation for what I have experienced post service.
Anyway, since I've had it back it's running well and has only lost 13 seconds steadily since I've been wearing it.
It has settled back into it's normal rhythm that it has always had and with the added bonus of the minute hand not springing back when setting the time, which i won't have to worry about for a while.
It's all good so far

[007Sub]

Originally Posted by Dirt

I considered that Rolex wouldn't bother with mucking around with that and simply replace it out of expediency. Bas had indicated it would be replaced as a set along with the Centre pinion
From my understanding, tightening the tension can be a little tricky in that just that little fraction more could end up being way too much
In that regard it could be a counter productive exercise

Still, with everything else basically working fine with the watch from my point of view and end user experience. I wonder what criterior was met that would require replacement or any changes with regard to the Cannon pinion.
Anyway, that would be yet another question

Good question: This is really an illustration of traditional watchmaking vs the "replace everything" mentality. Tightening the cannon pinion is reliable and works great if done correctly with proper tools. Adding new parts on vintage movements can sometimes introduce a bigger hassle than reconditioning the original parts (if possible). Newer watches less so the case... but still seems wasteful if the original part can be set within spec.

That said, cannon pinions if overtightened can crack or fail in which case replacement is the only option. If it is slightly too tight then broaching gets the job done nicely. Of course if this is done too extensively such that integrity is compromised then replacement is again necessary.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Dirt

I considered that Rolex wouldn't bother with mucking around with that and simply replace it out of expediency. Bas had indicated it would be replaced as a set along with the Centre pinion
From my understanding, tightening the tension can be a little tricky in that just that little fraction more could end up being way too much
In that regard it could be a counter productive exercise

Still, with everything else basically working fine with the watch from my point of view and end user experience. I wonder what criterior was met that would require replacement or any changes with regard to the Cannon pinion.
Anyway, that would be yet another question

Rolex even sells a tool that is made specifically for tightening the cannon pinion, which gets frequent use in our workshop

[Ron P]

Bas, May I ask:

Could you post a picture of that tool, very interested to see a fool proof tool for tightening.

Thanks

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Ron P

Bas, May I ask:

Could you post a picture of that tool, very interested to see a fool proof tool for tightening.

Thanks

[Ron P]

Thansk Bas,

Nice tool, looks a lot like the Bergeon tool.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Ron P

Thansk Bas,

Nice tool, looks a lot like the Bergeon tool.

Begeon might make it and Rolex rebrands it? Don't know

[Ron P]

The Rolex tool looks slightly more elegant, just like the watches compared to many other brands.