Radium Dial Question

[Old Expat Beast]

Apparently back in 1959 the US Atomic Energy Commission warned about Rolex GMT-Masters being "excessively radioactive". Here's an article from Singapore's Straits Times newspaper from December that year, with a quote from Wilsdorf at the end.

[77T]

Good article from that era, Adam.

Many angles to the radium question. IMHO, the danger was to watchmakers, dial makers, repair staff, and material handlers who came in regular long-term contact with the alpha particles (both radium, and later, tritium). Not the Watch owners. But then many parties went berserk on both sides of the matter. Hans & Cie included.

Let’s eat DDT too…




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[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by 77T

Good article from that era, Adam.




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Here's a related article from August 1961, same Singapore newspaper running a UPI wire from New York. I wonder how far this case got in court, if it ever got there. Wilsdorf was dead by this time. Sorry for the rough cropping.

[Dan S]

I imagine that everyone has seen the radium GMT bezel recall document a million times already, but I'll add it here since the thread is going in that direction.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by mjolnir2thor

That's an incredible story... who would have thought this could have happened! Glad you are okay!!!

From what I read, as long as the case is sealed, the case back prevents the radiation from reaching the wrist. If you haven't seen it, you might want to take a look at the link I posted where Kathleen McGivney give a nice lecture on radium dialed watches. I think I would have done exactly what you did by having the radium removed and the tritium lume re-applied.

Be financially ruinous mind ! If you removed the radium (and relumed tritium or similar) of a red depth 6538, you'd knock half a million dollars off its value ! Even a much, much more modest 6536/1 or 5508, you'd knock $20k off its value.

[mjolnir2thor]

Originally Posted by LateLearner

I inherited the Sub, and chronicled this odyssey on VRF, under the thread “Sorriest Relume Ever” this past spring. There are “before” and “after” pics. My account on VRF is IIIQTR65SUB5513.

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I just finished reading your thread on the VRF and enjoyed learning about your journey. Given that it was your dad’s watch, it was certainly worth the time and effort to have the radium removed. Obviously the 5513 meant a lot to him… I liked the part how he carved his name into the watch!

Thanks for sharing!

[mjolnir2thor]

Gentlemen, Thank you for posting the news paper clippings. Quite interesting to learn what was going on at the time in our country’s horological history.

I’m sure glad, in this modern world, that we don’t overreact like we did in the past!!!

P.S.> At the end of WW2 when the occupational forces came into Japan, my 87 year old mother was covered with DDT powder by the US to address the rampant lice problem running through the city.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Here's a related article from August 1961, same Singapore newspaper running a UPI wire from New York. I wonder how far this case got in court, if it ever got there. Wilsdorf was dead by this time. Sorry for the rough cropping.

I imagine the company may have encouraged the plaintiff to settle for some figure. Or, the suit was dropped when the attorney bills began to mount. Interestingly, several watch websites have written different articles without any finding the outcome.

Googling “Mound vs Rolex Federal Court” brings some of those results.

I am glad the topic came up because I learned a new thing…storing my Dad’s old Radium dialed watches in the safe “emits” a build up of Radon gas over time.


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[mjolnir2thor]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Be financially ruinous mind ! If you removed the radium (and relumed tritium or similar) of a red depth 6538, you'd knock half a million dollars off its value ! Even a much, much more modest 6536/1 or 5508, you'd knock $20k off its value.

Yes, it’s a real dilemma no doubt. If I were to buy a timepiece with radium, I would go into the purchase knowing the risks and taking the necessary precautions for wear and storage.

IMHO it would be a shame to ruin such a preserved timepiece. However, in the example by LateLearner, I wouldn’t hesitate to have the radium removed and wear the watch since it belonged to his father.

As DanS said in an earlier post, everyone needs to determine their acceptable level of risk. As I learn more on this topic and understand what is going on, my level of risk tolerence has increased.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by 77T

I imagine the company may have encouraged the plaintiff to settle for some figure. Or, the suit was dropped when the attorney bills began to mount. Interestingly, several watch websites have written different articles without any finding the outcome.

Googling “Mound vs Rolex Federal Court” brings some of those results.

I am glad the topic came up because I learned a new thing…storing my Dad’s old Radium dialed watches in the safe “emits” a build up of Radon gas over time.


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Probably settled or gave up. Looks like the family not only kept it, but kept in locked in a lead case thereafter. I wonder who bought it: https://www.matthewbaininc.com/post/...mt-master-6542

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Probably settled or gave up. Looks like the family not only kept it, but kept in locked in a lead case thereafter. I wonder who bought it: https://www.matthewbaininc.com/post/...mt-master-6542

What a story. I wonder how the family members ended up leaving this realm (or if any are still alive and well).

[971U]

Originally Posted by mjolnir2thor

That's an incredible story... who would have thought this could have happened! Glad you are okay!!!

From what I read, as long as the case is sealed, the case back prevents the radiation from reaching the wrist. If you haven't seen it, you might want to take a look at the link I posted where Kathleen McGivney give a nice lecture on radium dialed watches. I think I would have done exactly what you did by having the radium removed and the tritium lume re-applied.

I also watched that lecture, twice. She recommended keeping radium watches in a lead lined pouch. I bought four of them. The same ones she used. Sorry to say it didn’t work, not even a little. There is simply not enough lead to prevent the radiation from escaping. I placed one of my watches the pouch and my Geiger counter went crazy high. In ready the website now for the product I see it says for X-rays only. I probably have 12-15 Rolex watches with radium.

So yes it was a good lecture but save your money and do not buy the pouches like I did. Live and learn for me. But, I’m disappointed that someone like her would nit have actually check it out before giving a lecture to people about it.

[mjolnir2thor]

Originally Posted by 971U

I also watched that lecture, twice. She recommended keeping radium watches in a lead lined pouch. I bought four of them. The same ones she used. Sorry to say it didn’t work, not even a little. There is simply not enough lead to prevent the radiation from escaping. I placed one of my watches the pouch and my Geiger counter went crazy high. In ready the website now for the product I see it says for X-rays only. I probably have 12-15 Rolex watches with radium.

So yes it was a good lecture but save your money and do not buy the pouches like I did. Live and learn for me. But, I’m disappointed that someone like her would nit have actually check it out before giving a lecture to people about it.

I agree... she should have verified the effectiveness!

Given the 12 - 15 timepieces you have, what approach did you settle on for storage of those watches?