A Nautilus with a Co-Axial escapement

[Ichiran]

@italianwatchspotter
@pieceunique_

During Daniels development of the co-axial, he was approached by Patek Philippe, “The most prestigious watchmakers in the industry” - Daniels. In 1979 Alan Banbery saw the prototype for the co-axial in one of George’s pocket watches and after some back and forth decided that Patek would make some prototype movements for a Patek pocket watch featuring the co-axial to test its efficiency. However all was not smooth sailing, during his visits to Patek George could sense some hostility from Patek watchmakers and felt “unpopular” which might be expected as British watchmaker trying to improve Swiss watchmaking. When George came to see the first prototype, the movement had failed due to Patek’s design but they wouldn’t budge on their philosophy of design. George then suggested a wristwatch is the way forward and Patek supported this and gave George their latest self winding movement that was only 2.5mm thick. This was a problem, George had envisaged a thicker movement. He now realises that Patek had played him and given him a seemingly impossible task. However, George didn’t earn the title of greatest watchmaker of the 20th century for nothing!

He redesigned the escape wheels and was able to remove a part and reduce the height. George was delighted to have outsmarted Patek’s chief of R&D and Patek now agreed to make 3 prototypes.

In 1982, Daniels received this reference 3800 fitted with the prototype movement and wore it everyday for 10 years until the self-winding movement failed, to which he applauded Patek that a movement so thin and delicate could last so long without attention. The escapement was still in excellent condition. In 1984, all the results were in and the other prototypes were not running so well, because Patek had altered George's design so much.



This Nautilus is currently housed in the London Science Museum. 

[77T]

What a story - Dr. Daniels definitely fit the model of "if you got it, wear it"...

Proof positive - check that unpolished bezel:



Thanks for sharing @Ichiran
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[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by 77T

Thanks for sharing @Ichiran

It's my pleasure
I would love to pay a visit to this museum one day.

[1William]

Interesting.

[Calatrava r]

How does a watch get the scratched up?

[WatchTimes]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

How does a watch get the scratched up?

From being worn for at least 10 years and worn as a daily watch not one that way babied

[huncho]

Originally Posted by WatchTimes

From being worn for at least 10 years and worn as a daily watch not one that way babied

i mean in that photo he's clearly resting his wrist on a wooden drawer so...there's a difference between not babying and being careless, i would say that is careless. that will definitely cook bracelets quick and generally any watch that looks like that after only 10 years comes from people that rest their wrists on tables or bang them against stuff

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by huncho

i mean in that photo he's clearly resting his wrist on a wooden drawer so...there's a difference between not babying and being careless, i would say that is careless. that will definitely cook bracelets quick and generally any watch that looks like that after only 10 years comes from people that rest their wrists on tables or bang them against stuff

Wait, resting a watch on a wooden drawer is careless? Did I read that correctly?

What’s that make Patek in mineral hot baths 39 degrees Celsius.




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[huncho]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

Wait, resting a watch on a wooden drawer is careless? Did I read that correctly?

What’s that make Patek in mineral hot baths 39 degrees Celsius.




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weird comparison considering that's not even a watch on a bracelet + water isn't gonna scratch metal like resting it or rubbing it on things will. it's the same as when women wear a bracelet next to their watch which is ironically considered careless on this site is it not?

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by huncho

weird comparison considering that's not even a watch on a bracelet + water isn't gonna scratch metal like resting it on things like wood or flat surfaces will

This ‘destroys’ a watch? I’m trying to understand the notion.


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[huncho]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

This ‘destroys’ a watch? I’m trying to understand the notion.


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you're right. i'm not gonna derail this thread

[Vasco]

Thanks for the article Ichiran

Originally Posted by 77T

Proof positive - check that unpolished bezel:

Or polished by the wrong person

[Ellz]

Thanks for sharing that Michael- really enjoyed that :-)

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Thanks for the article Ichiran

Or polished by the wrong person

Originally Posted by Ellz

Thanks for sharing that Michael- really enjoyed that :-)

Glad you like it

[77T]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Thanks for the article Ichiran

Or polished by the wrong person

* the owner knew the right people had he wanted to polish it. It is just the way ours should look with honest daily use.


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[S’portEye]

Agreed, he wore it exactly the way he wanted to. No big deal.

[subtona]

those scratches do not come from a wooden draw... looks more like he was tossing and turning on a bed of nails. regardless I'm all for wearing the snot out of a watch.


the pics don't give it away but I am curious what the thickness of this watch was? I understood the co-axial design were on the thicker side. just look at the thickness of a typical modern co-axial omega.


above says he was able to modify the movement to make it thinner.. what was the rational for Daniels / omega to move away from this thinner option? imho one of omegas biggest handicaps vs rolex is the increased thickness their watches.

[geoach]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

How does a watch get the scratched up?

BY wearing it I do believe

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by geoach

BY wearing it I do believe

Yes sir, by wearing doing heavy labor and regularly brushing it against metal and other hard objects. Probably finished a little concrete here and there too. LOL

[codecow]

Going to check this out next time I’m in London (if I can find it).

[Ichiran]

Imagine having a Nautilus that only needs a service once every 15 years for regular use, or once every 20 years for irregular usage. That's the current service interval for Roger Smith watches which use Daniel's escapement.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Imagine having a Nautilus that only needs a service once every 15 years for regular use, or once every 20 years for irregular usage. That's the current service interval for Roger Smith watches which use Daniel's escapement.

That is quite feat for the movement's endurance. I have an ancillary question:
Would the gaskets and even the newer synthetic lubes (grease for load bearing parts and lube for jeweled pinions) lose their effectiveness or become gummy in 20 years?


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[Champagnepapi]

Ichiran, thank you for the nice post and lovely pics. Interesting story.


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[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by 77T

Would the gaskets and even the newer synthetic lubes (grease for load bearing parts and lube for jeweled pinions) lose their effectiveness or become gummy in 20 years?

If the same lubes work for Roger Smith watches, in theory they should work similarly in other movements. The 15 to 20 years' service interval is written in his watch manual like any other manufacturers and I assume he would back his claims.

Not too sure about gaskets though. I would imagine some Nautilus owners swim in the sea regularly. Maybe the periodical pressure testing and gaskets replacement still apply for sport watches. The water resistance for Roger Smith is only 3 ATM in comparison.

[GB-man]

Interesting story thanks for sharing. Was he a booze hound? That’s my best guess for how you get any watch looking like that lol

That or fall off a motorcycle.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by 77T

* the owner knew the right people had he wanted to polish it. It is just the way ours should look with honest daily use.

I totally agree, it was a little joke of mine but it didn't work as well as I thought