why is USPS MO an "unsafe payment option"?

[WatchGuy1337]

Hi everyone, forgive the naive question:

In the thread "Possible scam on TRF?" (http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=120380) people are calling Western Union and USPS MO "unsafe methods of payment". What makes them unsafe compared to a wire transfer? As I understand it, with all three options, once you send the money it's gone, with no way to get it back if something goes wrong (say, in comparison with the protections offered by a credit card, or even PayPal -- and yes, I know PayPal has its own set of issues).

Can someone please explain to me? Thanks!

[WatchGuy1337]

anyone?

[TimeToGo]

Hi Scott,

I think you answered your own question, per se.

If you are dealing with a known source/seller to send Money Orders or wire via Western Union, this is fine (NOT my preferred method, though).

First, I believe the fees for Western Union are HIGH. To me, Money Orders would be a hassle to get them cashed and/or deposited.

Bank wires are different. If you are dealing with a "reputable" seller, this option should not be a problem.

But understand, there are many scammers out there. If you use WU, MOs, or wires - as you explain - your money is gone!

Sellers shy from using Paypal because of the 3% charge. There is also an option for Paypal "E-check"...the seller is only charged $5 and you still have the same coverage, under their terms and condition.

[Earl Camembert]

With a bank electronic transfer (within the US of A) it is fairly safe as you know the seller's banking information and the bank knows everything about her. The Federal Government takes bank fraud very seriously as trusted banking is one of the pillars of our economy; think back to the crash of 29 when banks failed with no safety net.

If you get ripped off for a Rolex by check or MO it is a civil matter and one is SOL.

[robertneville]

The mo's can easily be counterfeited!

[WatchGuy1337]

Thanks for the responses. I guess with the wire transfer you do have some extra verification of the seller, which is a good thing. In the end, though, you really need to trust the seller, as all of the reasonable methods of payment have significant risks to the buyer, imho.

[jnmarshall]

The MO and WU are unsafe because they are purely cash transactions. Meaning you take cash to either place and conduct your transaction. You have no credit card protection or seller accountability. This is a decade+ old ebay, craigslist and OC scam when selling high $ commodities for cheap prices. This was VERY popular when you saw a $5000 laptop for sale and they were being sold for $999. You WU the cash to someone and it's gone for good! If you never get the item or not as expected you are SOL

I'm not exactly sure how safe or what a wire transfer is? My definition of a wire transfer is that someone gives you their banks routing and checking# and you send the funds from your acount. We call this an ACH transaction in the industry. It's the same as a direct debit or direct deposit. Very common for health club member ships and diet programs for obvious reasons As a seller I would not do this as I do not want to provide my routing and account #. In some cases you do have credit card protection and potentially identity prodtection as long as the transactions can be reversed. In a scam like this the seller would have to close out his account and probably have been opened with fake or false identification. At one time this was a chargable crime you would have to report to the local police of the sellers location if the amount was over $500 and a felony if the amount was over a couple of thousands or involved more that one person or transactions. My information on this is not up to date so do not take it as accurate.

The final type of transactions you should consider avoiding, and I'm going to get flamed here because most TRF postings that accept paypal are guilty of this violation, are the ones where you are asked to pay 3% or send it as a gift. The request for 3% is a violation of Paypal's TOS and seller agreements. It use to be in section 5 of the agreement if memory serves and it was stated simply that a seller can not charge any additional fee or increase the cost of the item for accepting paypal payments over any other form of payment. The cost must be the same regardless of method of payments offered. This affects the seller as they could be reported and face wrath of paypal. There are ways around this as a seller so it is listed correctly, but that's not the point of this topic The sending as a gift should be avoided as the buyer pays the fee and there is no buyer protection. To me it's like sending cash as with the PO and WU options. SO unless you are extremely confident with the seller you should avoid that request for payment as well.

[SLA]

JN is correct, there are two types of bank transfers, the ACH process he described and the wire transfer using the Federal Reserve's system. They are both OK, again if you confirm the sender's information with the bank. Neither can be easily reversed or cancelled. There are pros and cons to Paypal that would fill a book, but again it generally works fine if you have known parties, using confirmed accounts and confirmed addresses. There is some buyer protection, a little more if it goes though eBay, but it's not perfect.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by jnmarshall

The final type of transactions you should consider avoiding, and I'm going to get flamed here because most TRF postings that accept paypal are guilty of this violation, are the ones where you are asked to pay 3% or send it as a gift. The request for 3% is a violation of Paypal's TOS and seller agreements. It use to be in section 5 of the agreement if memory serves and it was stated simply that a seller can not charge any additional fee or increase the cost of the item for accepting paypal payments over any other form of payment.

Pay Pal also signed the same agreement with the credit card companies when they got their merchant account but pass on the credit card fee to the seller.