No Box and Papers? Pros and Cons

[DadsWatch72]

If the watch was stolen then RSC would keep the watch if someone tried to have it serviced (if it was reported) and wouldn't return the watch with a service paper.......so you can be sure that service papers give you some insurance that the watch isn't "hot".

[fusionstorm]

Originally Posted by TheDude

There's a word I associate with papers. That word is provenance. IMO, unless it is vintage then I don't worry about establishing provenance.

Also, it should be pointed out that B&P can acount for far more $$ in the vintage market. A Red Sub that might cost $10,000 without B&P could go for as much as $15,000 if it were part of a "complete set".

+1. If you're contemplating going vintage, and there is a smidgen of a possibility you might sell/trade it down the road, you'd be making your life considerably easier if you had b&p.

That leads into the list of things you should consider if you're buying, no matter if it's a modern or vintage Rolex:

Future appreciation/resale value
Obsessiveness with detail/completeness
Value/price ratio
Daily beater or safe queen?

If any of the first 2, as well as if it's going to be a safe queen/occasional wear piece, are at the top of your list, you're better off getting a piece with b&p. If you're looking for a good value for a piece you're going to wear a lot that you'd never consider selling, then go the non-b&p route.

One final consideration is this - - if anyone here were presented with two watches of the exact same model and production time in the same condition from sellers with impeccable reps, if the watches were priced similarly, everyone would opt for the piece with b&p. Basically, everyone would consider a Rolex with b&p if it were priced right, but there are plenty of folks who would pass on one w/o b&p even if it was priced accordingly.

Even if you never plan to sell it, you never know what may happen. Knock on wood that this never happens, but if you ever needed to raise some fast cash, you'll make out much better (and faster) if your watch had b&p. And if you were to pass on your watch to your heirs, they'll appreciate the fact you invested in one with b&p if they decide not to keep it.

[Zed Homme]

B&P are nice, but not crucial for me. I like the discount I get when the watch is without b&p. I'd imagine they are easier to fake than the watch itself so I've never believed that they could protect against buying a fake. IMO they are really only important when it comes time to sell as many buyers really prefer them. Honestly, I have a small apt here in the city and storing all that stuff is a PITA. Were it not for other's desire for the b&p, I would have thrown all that stuff away as soon as I peeled the stickers off my watch...

[TheDude]

Don't forget there are other ways to establish provenance for vintage pieces.

Service invoices from Bob Ridley or Rolex, etc... Being able to prove you bought it from a reputable broker like Steve M...

It's not the same as a complete history with B&P, but it's certainly better than nothing at all.

[nauticajoe]

As mentioned earlier, if you decide to pursue a watch without b&p, always buy the seller before buying the watch. There's a reason why its considerably cheaper, its not complete. So, if you ever decide to sell...best of luck. For modern watches, its a lot easier to sell a watch with b&p than without.
IMO, since its your 1st, pay the addt'l premium by going the b&p route.

Happy Hunting!

[jcontre]

Originally Posted by Speed

Welcome Justin,

If you don't have your answer by now, just use the advanced search feature on box and papers. There are tons of threads and tons of debate on this matter.

You never said...but what kind of Rolex watch are you looking for?

Right now, I'm leaning towards a SS DJ - a sharp, classic look. Something I can wear every day, dress it up or down.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by jcontre

Right now, I'm leaning towards a SS DJ - a sharp, classic look. Something I can wear every day, dress it up or down.

Ahh. So no Vintage.

Well, I imagine by now you know that Box and papers are a must have for some folks but are always nice.

Good luck!

[e66y]

With vintage watches, b&p always creats a premium and would be a perfect find, especially with tools watches like the subs and gmts when usually paperwork gets displaced/lost.
But, on balance, condition of the overall timepiece will command sellability and buyers.
I would rather have a minty cased and dial vintage without than a ropey cased watch with b&p.