ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

descartes · 26 February 2015, 07:24 AM

A well known auction house is offering a Red Sub with a pre-sale estimate of $20,000 to $30,000. The strong estimate appears to be based on the fact that the dial is meters first and tropical/brownish.

BUT, there appears to be an issue. Here is the description:

ROLEX REF 1680 RED SUBMARINER TROPICAL STEEL Rolex, "Oyster Perpetual Date, Submariner, 200 m = 660 ft, Superlative Chronometer, Officially Certified," case No. 3762876, Ref. 1680. Made in 1974. Fine and rare, center seconds, self-winding, water-resistant, stainless steel wristwatch with date and a Rolex stainless steel Fliplock bracelet with deployant clasp. Accompanied by a Rolex fitted box.

Clearly, this is a "Franken-watch." The dial is meters first (and to my eye a Mark II), which would never find itself in this 3,76M case unless it was pieced together after the fact. (Plus, the dial looks like sh!t). In fact, one wonders how that dial could have made its way into into a later case.

The auction house describes the dial as "original", but it is certainly not original to that watch.

Vincent65 · 26 February 2015, 07:45 AM

oops...

JJL · 26 February 2015, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descartes

A well known auction house is offering a Red Sub with a pre-sale estimate of $20,000 to $30,000. The strong estimate appears to be based on the fact that the dial is meters first and tropical/brownish.

BUT, there appears to be an issue. Here is the description:

ROLEX REF 1680 RED SUBMARINER TROPICAL STEEL Rolex, "Oyster Perpetual Date, Submariner, 200 m = 660 ft, Superlative Chronometer, Officially Certified," case No. 3762876, Ref. 1680. Made in 1974. Fine and rare, center seconds, self-winding, water-resistant, stainless steel wristwatch with date and a Rolex stainless steel Fliplock bracelet with deployant clasp. Accompanied by a Rolex fitted box.

Clearly, this is a "Franken-watch." The dial is meters first (and to my eye a Mark II), which would never find itself in this 3,76M case unless it was pieced together after the fact. (Plus, the dial looks like sh!t). In fact, one wonders how that dial could have made its way into into a later case.

The auction house describes the dial as "original", but it is certainly not original to that watch.

yeah, isn't 1974 late for a meters first 1680 ??

willang · 26 February 2015, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJL

yeah, isn't 1974 late for a meters first 1680 ??

+1

the things people try to get away with...

descartes · 26 February 2015, 08:01 AM

This is the kind of thing a leading auction house should certainly disclose. In fact, to the contrary, they have given this watch a "AAA" grading which is supposed to be reserved for highly collectible pieces in top condition.

What a joke!

Exclusivewatches · 26 February 2015, 08:15 AM

Do they claim its authenticity?

omitohud · 26 February 2015, 08:17 AM

Do u mind sharing the name of the auction house? Since its an auction house, it should be a public record, no? Thanks for sharing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JJL · 26 February 2015, 08:21 AM

I assume it's this? http://www.classicdriver.com/en/watch/rolex/289538

descartes · 26 February 2015, 08:25 AM

^^^^ That is the watch. If you go to the auction site itself, you will see their pre-sale estimate ($20-$20K) and grading info.

JohnBaker3 · 26 February 2015, 08:32 AM

CAVEAT EMPTOR

toph · 26 February 2015, 08:57 AM

Auction houses can be a real POS.
Nothing has changed .. Except the fact we have the internet and places like this to help catch them out and spread the word.

thomaspp · 26 February 2015, 11:35 AM

interesting.

jban5 · 26 February 2015, 11:46 AM

I recall several threads on watch sites concerning Antiquorum and other watches like this one. It seems like they aren't very receptive to the truths if they are contrary to their descriptions.

redsubdoc · 27 February 2015, 04:41 AM

A+++

NukeMan · 27 February 2015, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJL

I assume it's this? http://www.classicdriver.com/en/watch/rolex/289538

Based on this I would NEVER buy from that auction house. Ever.

mates!

bayerische · 27 February 2015, 01:10 PM

They should re-think their estimate. But may also be that a clueless buyer will buy it.

Dr DRW · 27 February 2015, 02:29 PM

buyer beware

MitchSteel · 27 February 2015, 02:46 PM

Unacceptable

ABChop · 27 February 2015, 04:46 PM

A mark II dial would be in a case in the 2m range as mine is.....details of mine below.

mluther · 27 February 2015, 05:25 PM

Outrageous and downright dishonest - they really are shameless!!

Vincent65 · 27 February 2015, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABChop

A mark II dial would be in a case in the 2m range as mine is.....details of mine below.

may we see and enjoy it, please!?

ABChop · 27 February 2015, 10:55 PM

Sorry, I'm at work in Scotland....worlds slowest wifi prevents me from sharing any pictures.

Vincent65 · 27 February 2015, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABChop

Sorry, I'm at work in Scotland....worlds slowest wifi prevents me from sharing any pictures.

Yeah, I know, the pace is a bit 'yesteryear' up there...

Shame, would have liked to have seen it.

QueueCumber · 28 February 2015, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABChop

Sorry, I'm at work in Scotland....worlds slowest wifi prevents me from sharing any pictures.

Tell that sheep that's carrying those packets back and forth to run faster!!!

QueueCumber · 28 February 2015, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mluther

Outrageous and downright dishonest - they really are shameless!!

Indeed, they get money either way, which is a policy that breeds dishonesty. If the piece doesn't sell they get a percentage of the estimated value or reserve, and if it does sell they get the Buyer's Premium (generally 20% or more of hammer price) and Seller's commission (10% of hammer price).

26 February 2015, 07:24 AM	#1
descartes "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: North Shore Posts: 1,116	Auction Risks-- RED SUB A well known auction house is offering a Red Sub with a pre-sale estimate of $20,000 to $30,000. The strong estimate appears to be based on the fact that the dial is meters first and tropical/brownish. BUT, there appears to be an issue. Here is the description: ROLEX REF 1680 RED SUBMARINER TROPICAL STEEL Rolex, "Oyster Perpetual Date, Submariner, 200 m = 660 ft, Superlative Chronometer, Officially Certified," case No. 3762876, Ref. 1680. Made in 1974. Fine and rare, center seconds, self-winding, water-resistant, stainless steel wristwatch with date and a Rolex stainless steel Fliplock bracelet with deployant clasp. Accompanied by a Rolex fitted box. Clearly, this is a "Franken-watch." The dial is meters first (and to my eye a Mark II), which would never find itself in this 3,76M case unless it was pieced together after the fact. (Plus, the dial looks like sh!t). In fact, one wonders how that dial could have made its way into into a later case. The auction house describes the dial as "original", but it is certainly not original to that watch. __________________ I have a weakness for Travel Watches, Platinum, Vintage Rolex and 1960s Divers

26 February 2015, 08:01 AM	#5
descartes "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: North Shore Posts: 1,116	This is the kind of thing a leading auction house should certainly disclose. In fact, to the contrary, they have given this watch a "AAA" grading which is supposed to be reserved for highly collectible pieces in top condition. What a joke! __________________ I have a weakness for Travel Watches, Platinum, Vintage Rolex and 1960s Divers

26 February 2015, 08:25 AM	#9
descartes "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: North Shore Posts: 1,116	^^^^ That is the watch. If you go to the auction site itself, you will see their pre-sale estimate ($20-$20K) and grading info. __________________ I have a weakness for Travel Watches, Platinum, Vintage Rolex and 1960s Divers

26 February 2015, 08:32 AM	#10
JohnBaker3 "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Real Name: John Baker III Location: Spring,Texas Watch: 1971 Red Sub Posts: 2,222	CAVEAT EMPTOR __________________ As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing off everyone is a piece of cake.

26 February 2015, 08:57 AM	#11
toph "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: ChrisTOPHer Location: Sydney Watch: Rolex, Brellum, Posts: 12,601	Auction houses can be a real POS. Nothing has changed .. Except the fact we have the internet and places like this to help catch them out and spread the word. __________________ "Where no counsel is the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Member No.# 11795

26 February 2015, 07:45 AM	#2
Vincent65 "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Switzerland Posts: 14,298	oops...

26 February 2015, 08:15 AM	#6
Exclusivewatches Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Real Name: N/A Location: Antwerpen Watch: ING MY WIFE Posts: 734	Do they claim its authenticity?

26 February 2015, 08:17 AM	#7
omitohud "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Real Name: Sam Location: los Angeles Posts: 2,051	Do u mind sharing the name of the auction house? Since its an auction house, it should be a public record, no? Thanks for sharing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

26 February 2015, 08:21 AM	#8
JJL "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: US Watch: 1680 Red & 16622 Posts: 2,449	I assume it's this? http://www.classicdriver.com/en/watch/rolex/289538

26 February 2015, 11:35 AM	#12
thomaspp "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 11,137	interesting. __________________ Instagram: @watches_anonymous

26 February 2015, 11:46 AM	#13
jban5 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Watch: 5513~1675x2~1680~ Posts: 523	I recall several threads on watch sites concerning Antiquorum and other watches like this one. It seems like they aren't very receptive to the truths if they are contrary to their descriptions.

27 February 2015, 04:41 AM	#14
redsubdoc "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 37	A+++

27 February 2015, 01:10 PM	#16
bayerische "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Real Name: Andreas Location: Margaritaville Watch: Smurf Posts: 19,879	They should re-think their estimate. But may also be that a clueless buyer will buy it. __________________ Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

27 February 2015, 02:29 PM	#17
Dr DRW "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Real Name: David Location: Dallas, Tx Watch: Divers Posts: 323	buyer beware __________________ Rolex 1665, 1675, 1680, 5513, 16600, 16610, 14060

27 February 2015, 02:46 PM	#18
MitchSteel "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Real Name: MDangerSteel Location: Canada Watch: Vintage Rolex Posts: 2,301	Unacceptable __________________ Card Carrying Member of the Global Association of Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons Probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival---Capt. Rage Don't believe anything in aviation, 'till V1---Mitch Danger Steel

27 February 2015, 04:46 PM	#19
ABChop "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 671	A mark II dial would be in a case in the 2m range as mine is.....details of mine below. __________________ - "M" 16600 Sea-Dweller - "A" GMT 16700. -“A” 16613LB Sub - 1680 Red Sub, Mark II, "Full Set" - 116660 DSSD D-Blue, 124060, 126613LN, 116710BLNR - 116500LN White Dial - “U” 16610 “SWISS” dial

27 February 2015, 05:25 PM	#20
mluther "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Real Name: Michael Location: Brussels Watch: aholic Posts: 1,108	Outrageous and downright dishonest - they really are shameless!! __________________ Instagram: michael.luther

27 February 2015, 10:55 PM	#22
ABChop "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 671	Sorry, I'm at work in Scotland....worlds slowest wifi prevents me from sharing any pictures. __________________ - "M" 16600 Sea-Dweller - "A" GMT 16700. -“A” 16613LB Sub - 1680 Red Sub, Mark II, "Full Set" - 116660 DSSD D-Blue, 124060, 126613LN, 116710BLNR - 116500LN White Dial - “U” 16610 “SWISS” dial

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