What box and papers?

[Jksgoh55]

Hi everyone,

New here, and considering a No-date submariner 14060M.
There are a couple on the market which are local to me which are quite tempting.

However, I would like some advice/information.
When looking at the "box and papers" and other paraphernalia what exactly is meant to be included?
For some reason I can't find exactly comes standard when buying new.

Also, when buying second hand, how much weight do you put on a genuine rolex service? one dealer in particular has no information regarding the when the last rolex service was performed, but states that his watch service man states it is in good condition


any advice would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

[THC]

Every Rolex comes with a box, some kind of serial # certificate/card, and booklets that is a manual to the watch...
The service question would vary on how old the watch is

[Jksgoh55]

Hi THC,

Thanks for your reply. Would you know exactly what the certificate and manual would look like for this particular type of Sub.

Re how old it is, it is a Y serial and sold in 2004.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Jksgoh55

Hi THC,

Thanks for your reply. Would you know exactly what the certificate and manual would look like for this particular type of Sub.

Re how old it is, it is a Y serial and sold in 2004.

The so called papers or certificate in a watch from 2004 will be just a outdated warranty paper as for the manual not really a lot in it so not all that important.Now if no service history then it would be prudent to have it serviced by the RSC. After service watch will look as good as new and you will have service papers or plastic card with all the watch details on and this will act like a full two year warranty on the movement.As for Y serial what this can tell you the case was stamped sometime between September 2002 to around August 2003 this dont always mean when it was made.

[sahcivan]

Originally Posted by padi56

The so called papers or certificate in a watch from 2004 will be just a outdated warranty paper as for the manual not really a lot in it so not all that important.Now if no service history then it would be prudent to have it serviced by the RSC. After service watch will look as good as new and you will have service papers or plastic card with all the watch details on and this will act like a full two year warranty on the movement.As for Y serial what this can tell you the case was stamped sometime between September 2002 to around August 2003 this dont always mean when it was made.

If you were buying, if it didn't have the original card, but a RSC service card, would you accept this is as good or better than the original?
Surely by the watch being to RSC and coming back it gives a decent indication that everything is kosher with the watch? Or just as much as the original plastic card?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by sahcivan

If you were buying, if it didn't have the original card, but a RSC service card, would you accept this is as good or better than the original?
Surely by the watch being to RSC and coming back it gives a decent indication that everything is kosher with the watch? Or just as much as the original plastic card?

To me the most important is a genuine watch these so called papers are with today's technology far easier to fake that the watch.With any modern day Rolex from 1988 on to me a outdated warranty not as important as condition of the watch .Now with some of the rare vintage models then the original paperwork would be a bonus and in most cases bring a premium price.So I would rather have a valid service paper warranty or card from Rolex than any outdated warranty paper/card.

[THC]

Peter is infinitely more versed than I in this for sure, so follow his advice. box and papers to me, just make the flip or sale of said watch easier down the road.

[roadkillrob]

It seems the box and papers will make some people feel a little better about it being original, but like others have said, that is the easier stuff to fake actually and the fakes come with boxes and papers now also. The box and papers also add a bit of a premium, usually about the same value as they are worth without the watch, so expect to pay about $300 more if it is box and papers.

To me on a watch out of original warranty, the original warranty card is a nice to have but has no real value, an RSC service card is much better to me if the watch has been serviced, especially within the last 2 years as that helps confirm authenticity as RSC has serviced it and won't service a fake and also gives some warranty if still within the 2 years of service RSC service card is > than original warranty card in my book as Peter said.

[Mfrankel2]

Just a couple of months ago I was looking for a particular watch (16710). One of our trusted sellers had literally two identical watches (both f serial). One had original warranty papers, the other no original warranty but had been recently serviced by RSC & had the "plastic card" stating so. As we're talking about a 10+ year old watch, I went with the RSC papers. A recent RSC service means a pretty much brand new watch & several years of worry free, accurate performance. No service history & you could be a few months away from a several hundred dollar expense

[Chadridv]

You can hear opinions on what's more important, the condition of the watch vs having the complete set (box and papers), or the original box and papers vs a service card from RSC, but for the most part those are all opinions. I happen to agree that the watch condition is most important, but regardless of that, there is one fact: box and paper (or "complete set") has value.

If you owned your y serial sub in good condition with the complete set, and I owned a different y serial sub in the same condition but just the watch only, and we both contact a trusted seller to get a sale/trade in value, your complete set would likely sell for $200-400 more than mine.

Of course if you take that value into consideration when buying/selling it doesn't really make a difference monetarily, but you still need to be aware of the value in order to buy or sell at the right price. People who say it makes no difference aren't wrong, as long as you take the value difference into consideration when buying/selling.

I personally beleive having a complete set always makes a watch easier to sell or trade so there's another advantage if you anticipate flipping.

Lastly, this is just my opinion, but typically the person who maintains and keeps the original paperwork and packaging for a watch is often also the type of person who is maticulous with their things and therefore is more likely to have kept the watch in good condition. Just my opinion.

[Cryten]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Lastly, this is just my opinion, but typically the person who maintains and keeps the original paperwork and packaging for a watch is often also the type of person who is maticulous with their things and therefore is more likely to have kept the watch in good condition. Just my opinion.

My thoughts exactly. I also consider box and papers an indication of more careful ownership. The owner that has kept everything that came with the watch has more likely looked after it more than the owner that strapped a watch to their wrist and threw everything out (or lost it amongst their disorganised mess at home).


There's no reason a fairly modern reference shouldn't still be a complete set.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

You can hear opinions on what's more important, the condition of the watch vs having the complete set (box and papers), or the original box and papers vs a service card from RSC, but for the most part those are all opinions. I happen to agree that the watch condition is most important, but regardless of that, there is one fact: box and paper (or "complete set") has value.

If you owned your y serial sub in good condition with the complete set, and I owned a different y serial sub in the same condition but just the watch only, and we both contact a trusted seller to get a sale/trade in value, your complete set would likely sell for $200-400 more than mine.

Of course if you take that value into consideration when buying/selling it doesn't really make a difference monetarily, but you still need to be aware of the value in order to buy or sell at the right price. People who say it makes no difference aren't wrong, as long as you take the value difference into consideration when buying/selling.

I personally beleive having a complete set always makes a watch easier to sell or trade so there's another advantage if you anticipate flipping.

Lastly, this is just my opinion, but typically the person who maintains and keeps the original paperwork and packaging for a watch is often also the type of person who is maticulous with their things and therefore is more likely to have kept the watch in good condition. Just my opinion.

Perfect response. This is all you need to know.

It's not as much about authenticity as there are better and more reliable ways, but it is about "completeness" and that itself has a value. I'm also in the camp that believes that an owner who looks after the original b/p may apply these traits to a better looked after watch. The converse doesn't necessarily apply though.

[Frosty]

I have a foot in both worlds. I think a newer watch (2000+)should have everything. In a vintage watch I want everything. That is why I bought a matte dial GMT 16750 from Greekbum. It had everything including the sales receipt.

On the other hand, when I had a chance to get a barn find 1675 with only the watch and a service by Dalton, I jumped on it.

[WAK4]

If its something I am absolutely sure I will keep and unlikely to sell, I don't care much as long as its priced right and I am comfortable the watch is the real deal.

Sadly, I place more weight on the box, papers, etc because my potential future buyer probably will. I've been known to flip a watch or two to fund something new...

[goldenpauls]

Hi, Great choice.......only had mine about 6 months but love it.
Mine is also 2004 (early F serial) but has all of it's original accessories.......
It should have the papers, inner and outer box as shown in photo (not the slightly later plain green 'wave' box), Submariner booklet, plain green Your Oyster booklet, green leather document wallet, 40mm plastic bezel protector and silver Submariner anchor. Mine also has the green plastic Swimpruf tag and small translation document which are not in the photo. I should NOT have a red COSC swing tag as the 2 liners are not COSC !!
The Submariner and Your Oyster booklets have the month & year printed within the part number on the back cover.

As others have said, a watch does not 'need' the accessories but if you want as many as possible hopefully this helps.............

[Jksgoh55]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Great food for thought.
Obviously, at the end of the day I have to be happy with it, but its good to know what sort of weighting people put on different aspects of the watch.

I think I will hold off on the current one I am looking at as there are just a bit too many unknowns for my liking... I'm sure something will pop up.