Who are Patek's main competition?

[unknown]

Originally Posted by Numismatist

I believe it is their highest end watch. So I assume 6 figures, but I don't know. Maybe someone does?

When I win that lottery, I'll send you one!

7 figures ... but it's nice :-)

[RW16610]

WOW! Thanks for posting those pictures!

[ocwatching]

"unknown" ....congrats on the holiest of all holy grails...

[unknown]

Originally Posted by ocwatchnewbie

"unknown" ....congrats on the holiest of all holy grails...

only my pics, ofcourse NOT my watch
I have a super AD and he called me when he received this piece. He knows very well i could never afford such a piece but he also knew I would love to see it, and play with this piece.
well, for about 2 hours it was mine

[RW16610]

Haha, very nice of your AD. You never know though! Maybe some day so it was a good move on his part letting you go look at it That must have been WOW, did they have to call paramedics or use smelling salts on you when they gave you the watch and you passed out from excitement? LOL Kidding... That might have been the case for me though...

[ocwatching]

like your camera work on all the various watches on your blog..
Thanks for sharing...looking forward to more...

[unknown]

Originally Posted by ocwatchnewbie

like your camera work on all the various watches on your blog..
Thanks for sharing...looking forward to more...

thank you very much !

[boa2]

Originally Posted by ocwatchnewbie

like your camera work on all the various watches on your blog..
Thanks for sharing...looking forward to more...

Ditto here. Not many people whose photos make a watch look edible.

[Numismatist]

MUST HAVE THAT WATCH!!!

MUST WIN BIG LOTTERY!!!

Excellent and congrats, it's a winner of a watch. I could not do anything but stare at that all day.

[drtooth73]

By the way, an interesting fact about buying those Sky Moons, is that you have to pass an interview by Patek's boss. I read there were 100 people who wanted to get the most expensive Pateks, and only two were granted their wish.
Patek does not want their watches being resold. They want to make sure the watch goes straight to the collector.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by drtooth73

By the way, an interesting fact about buying those Sky Moons, is that you have to pass an interview by Patek's boss. I read there were 100 people who wanted to get the most expensive Pateks, and only two were granted their wish.
Patek does not want their watches being resold. They want to make sure the watch goes straight to the collector.

WOW! Awesome! Just like McLaren or Ferrari with the F50 - Enzo! That is amazing, did not know this either, thanks for telling me that

[boa2]

Originally Posted by drtooth73

By the way, an interesting fact about buying those Sky Moons, is that you have to pass an interview by Patek's boss. I read there were 100 people who wanted to get the most expensive Pateks, and only two were granted their wish.
Patek does not want their watches being resold. They want to make sure the watch goes straight to the collector.

Although a number of them did end up at auction...where Patek is known to shill bid. Of course, other brands do it as well.

[AndreiRublyov]

I would compare Patek with Breguet, Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin.

[BigHat]

Maybe it's fair to exclude Lange as they really don't compete in terms of volume sold. To me though, they are in that rare niche of "special watches."

With great admiration for both brands, I personally opted to spend my $$ on Lange after thinking of a watch from PP.

[escudoturbo]

Maybe a Audemars Piguet or a Richard Mille or even a Mcgonigle.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by BigHat

Maybe it's fair to exclude Lange as they really don't compete in terms of volume sold. To me though, they are in that rare niche of "special watches."

With great admiration for both brands, I personally opted to spend my $$ on Lange after thinking of a watch from PP.

When it comes to technical marvels and finishing, not only can Lange not be excluded, but many (including Philippe Dufour) believe they are superior to Patek.

Again, I think it's much more informative to compare two watches than it is two brands. In any case, you gotta go with the one that smiles back at you.

[asadtiger]

great thread guys...my picks are almost the same as everybody else...I think together with beaing exceptional, Patek has the edge of being very very pretty most of the time, while others have specific watches that are pretty and others that aren't so outstanding...Lange has asymmetric dials which are hard to digest but they are great watches and the amazing thing I read about them is that even their most complicated watch is not a sensitive watch...they are subjected to sports watch level tests and I read that they testing guy wore the DatoGraph Perpetual/Chrono for manual labour work in construction for many days to test for accuracy and reliability and it never faltered...now that was awesome

[boa2]

Originally Posted by asadtiger

great thread guys...my picks are almost the same as everybody else...I think together with beaing exceptional, Patek has the edge of being very very pretty most of the time, while others have specific watches that are pretty and others that aren't so outstanding...Lange has asymmetric dials which are hard to digest but they are great watches and the amazing thing I read about them is that even their most complicated watch is not a sensitive watch...they are subjected to sports watch level tests and I read that they testing guy wore the DatoGraph Perpetual/Chrono for manual labour work in construction for many days to test for accuracy and reliability and it never faltered...now that was awesome

I'm sure you know that not all Lange watches are asymmetrical. In fact, only the Lange 1 variants (TZ, Grande Lange, Moonphase, etc) are. The Datograph, Richard Lange, Saxonia, 1815, and Pour le Merite watches all have symmetrical dials. Although it is the Lange 1 that is the most iconic:

[drtooth73]

Patek is number one in prestige, period.
Its on top of the ladder.
Others are trying to compete with Patek. In my eyes its like a comparison between a BMW and Infinity. Yes, Infinity has a bigger engine, but its no BMW.

[asadtiger]

Originally Posted by boa2

I'm sure you know that not all Lange watches are asymmetrical. In fact, only the Lange 1 variants (TZ, Grande Lange, Moonphase, etc) are. The Datograph, Richard Lange, Saxonia, 1815, and Pour le Merite watches all have symmetrical dials. Although it is the Lange 1 that is the most iconic:

Yes you are right Howard....I am aware of that and to be honest, I sure dig the Lange as a watch more than the Patek (dont kill me for it guys :) )...both are great brands and comparisons are unfair but I like the fact that Lange is not known to people other than the WIS (generally speaking) ...I knoe thats a tough point to put across well so I'll just leave it at that..hehe

[iwantagmt]

One of the things I like about Patek relative to Lange is its "Swissness." For me, a big part of owning a fine mechanical watch is participating in the glamorous history of the Swiss watch industry. For this reason, I have almost no interest in owning a german or japanese watch.

My favorite brands (Omega, Rolex, JLC, AP and Patek) are all very significant in the history if Swiss watches, and to me that is a big part of the appeal.

Patek's Rhodium-plated, freely-sprung, Geneva-striped movement is the definition of what a swiss watch movement should be. In addition, the presence of the Gyromax is a constant reminder of Patek's contributions to horology, and its Swiss pedigree.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by drtooth73

Patek is number one in prestige, period.
Its on top of the ladder.
Others are trying to compete with Patek. In my eyes its like a comparison between a BMW and Infinity. Yes, Infinity has a bigger engine, but its no BMW.

Well....AP, Lange, Breguet & Vacheron are putting far better than an Infinity engine in their watches.

[drtooth73]

Ok, in that case, Howard, tell me what watch brand is number one?

[boa2]

Originally Posted by drtooth73

Ok, in that case, Howard, tell me what watch brand is number one?

Definitively, who can say across a brand? And are we talking brand value? Finishing? Technology? Marketing? Reliability? I'm of the opinion that it is a matter of opinion.

However, if you look at the movement of a Vacheron Constantin Malte Chronograph and a Patek 5070, you will find them strikingly similar in both technology and level of finish. In fact, I believe they were sourced from the same movement. If you toss the Lange Datograph into the mix, you will discover yet another level of development.

Again, I think it's a matter of opinion. Where I disagree is in labeling the Patek the BMW and the others Infinity. Because an AP Jules Audemars with AP escapement, for example, stands shoulder-to-shoulder with anything that Patek makes. As does a Lange Tourbograph, or an FP Journe Chronometre Resonance.

In the end, people choose for their reasons...movement, brand history, shinyness, whatever...and I consider them all viable.

[drtooth73]

Pick one based on prestige.
My pick is Patek.


But after wearing Rolex, and now Panerai, I would not buy another Patek, solely based on size.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by drtooth73

Pick one based on prestige.
My pick is Patek.


But after wearing Rolex, and now Panerai, I would not buy another Patek, solely based on size.

For prestige, probably so.

Patek does make a number of watches at 39mm, the 5070 is 42mm, and the current Nautilus series is 43mm. Although if I'm wearing a dress watch, a 37 or 38mm Calatrava seems perfectly suitable to me.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by boa2

However, if you look at the movement of a Vacheron Constantin Malte Chronograph and a Patek 5070, you will find them strikingly similar in both technology and level of finish. In fact, I believe they were sourced from the same movement. If you toss the Lange Datograph into the mix, you will discover yet another level of development.

Well, I don't think that is correct my friend :-)
I admit, I am baised towards the 5070 BUT these are parts of reviews which compared the VC and the Patek. It is clear that there is a HUGE difference

A lot of companies claim to use modifed versions of various movements but often times the extent of that modification is cursory at best (an engraved rotor, chemically blued screws). When Patek Philippe modifies the Lemania 2320 to turn it into the CH27-70, they truly make it their own.
You can see that the balance bridge and escape wheel cock are completely new as is all of the chronograph transfer wheel mechanism and much of the rest of the chronograph mechanism. Patek has added a jeweled bearing to the visible portion of the auxiliary fourth wheel, a cap to the column wheel and generally finished the whole movement to Patek standards. Frankly I'm not sure how much of the original movement is present at all.

Of course the Vacheron version is very nice in its own right. They are not slouches when it comes to fine finishing. They just have not modifed the movement as heavily as Patek by any stretch.

and a bit more

Patek changes the balance to its free-sprung Gyromax system--a very important change. Additionally it must do something to the barrel as the power reserve jumps from 48 hours on the "stock" Lemania to 60 hours on the Patek version. Also, the return to zero spring is different from the basic Lemania. At the end of the day, what really carries over is the some of the gearing, the shape of return to zero hammer and the minute counter mechanism. I, for one, have no difficulty at all in thinking of the 27-70 as an in house movement


SO we can say Patek did A LOT of modifications while VC just bought the movement and put it in the case.


And about the Lange vs Patek level of finish, this is a must read

http://www.timezone.com/library/horo...71464248171541

I was pretty sure that Lange is at the same level as Patek. But ... just read this
(most of us know Walt Odets, if you don't know him, you should !)

[boa2]

Originally Posted by unknown

Well, I don't think that is correct my friend :-)
I admit, I am baised towards the 5070 BUT these are parts of reviews which compared the VC and the Patek. It is clear that there is a HUGE difference

A lot of companies claim to use modifed versions of various movements but often times the extent of that modification is cursory at best (an engraved rotor, chemically blued screws). When Patek Philippe modifies the Lemania 2320 to turn it into the CH27-70, they truly make it their own.
You can see that the balance bridge and escape wheel cock are completely new as is all of the chronograph transfer wheel mechanism and much of the rest of the chronograph mechanism. Patek has added a jeweled bearing to the visible portion of the auxiliary fourth wheel, a cap to the column wheel and generally finished the whole movement to Patek standards. Frankly I'm not sure how much of the original movement is present at all.

Of course the Vacheron version is very nice in its own right. They are not slouches when it comes to fine finishing. They just have not modifed the movement as heavily as Patek by any stretch.

and a bit more

Patek changes the balance to its free-sprung Gyromax system--a very important change. Additionally it must do something to the barrel as the power reserve jumps from 48 hours on the "stock" Lemania to 60 hours on the Patek version. Also, the return to zero spring is different from the basic Lemania. At the end of the day, what really carries over is the some of the gearing, the shape of return to zero hammer and the minute counter mechanism. I, for one, have no difficulty at all in thinking of the 27-70 as an in house movement


SO we can say Patek did A LOT of modifications while VC just bought the movement and put it in the case.


And about the Lange vs Patek level of finish, this is a must read

http://www.timezone.com/library/horo...71464248171541

I was pretty sure that Lange is at the same level as Patek. But ... just read this
(most of us know Walt Odets, if you don't know him, you should !)

I'm familiar with Odets. The gent who caused quite an uproar trashing the Rolex Explorer. And by his own admission, this article is hardly definitive.

As you said, you are biased. You should be, you have an amazing watch in the 5070. There's plenty of material we could cut-and-paste back and forth to argue both sides of this issue ad infinitem. Toss the VC Patrimony Traditionelle Chronograph with its in-house movement--at half the price of the Patek--and the conversation widens even more. But what is the need? Enjoy your watch. It's a dream piece!

[topcat30093]

Great thread with some good discussion points.

I would say that Patek, Vacheron & Breguet like to build and design watches that have that classic appearance.

But the likes of Journe & Lange and Sohne love to be different and adventurous, take for example FP Journe's Vagabond & Lange and Sohne's Zeitwerk.

Then on another plain you have Mr Philippe Dufour, Kari, Gauthier & Vianney

[mretzloff]

Originally Posted by BigHat

Maybe it's fair to exclude Lange as they really don't compete in terms of volume sold. To me though, they are in that rare niche of "special watches."

With great admiration for both brands, I personally opted to spend my $$ on Lange after thinking of a watch from PP.

After touring Lange's factory, I would have to agree with this. The simple fact that every Lange is built, taken apart, and then has all screws replaced and all parts polished is amazing. Also, Lange builds all of their parts themselves, except for the screws and a few other parts that do not affect the watch's performance.

If I had the money, I'd get a Lange.