AP price increase again?

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by supernova

I think the 15450 was exception that it increased a lot in the Jan 2020 increase compared to say the 15500.

There was a Nov 2020 increase but was only for the US market, but think they didn’t get an increase in July?

I thought the November 2020 increase hit other markets too. It was US only?

[supernova]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I thought the November 2020 increase hit other markets too. It was US only?

I believe so as prices in Europe and Asia did not go up in Nov, only in US, so all markets will have had 3 in last year. The Jan 2021 will be the normal annual across the board increase.

The July and Nov one was more an off schedule emergency increase cause of pandemic costs increases. Many of the other luxury brands did similar such as LV and Chanel.

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[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by supernova

I believe so as prices in Europe and Asia did not go up in Nov, only in US, so all markets will have had 3 in last year. The Jan 2021 will be the normal annual across the board increase.

The July and Nov one was more an off schedule emergency increase cause of pandemic costs increases. Many of the other luxury brands did similar such as LV and Chanel.

Ah, understood.

So, it's still pretty strange then that the US is experiencing a second (?) price increase in less than two months as a result of the website switching to CHF pricing across the board.

Anyone hear anything official yet from their US-based Boutique?

It's a bit annoying, I have to admit, as I'm pretty sure they aren't going to lower US prices when this takes effect: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...trump-era-tone

[namco1]

So just to be clear...

We should be expecting another price increase in Jan 2021 for all markets?

[BLNR1]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

I think this is marvelous. I think all these watch brands should take price increases until they have figured the supply and demand where THEY are making the profit not the grays. I have stated for a while they are leaving so much money on the table with all the gray shenanigans and they are the ones really making hay.

Good on AP and now Rolex should do the same. I would take all SS pricing up 20% at Rolex.

I agree with this too. I hope Rolex follows this trend.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by BLNR1

I agree with this too. I hope Rolex follows this trend.

I do not.

Some of us don't consider a Rolex Daytona SS to be a $25k watch.

That's why we don't buy from greys at those prices.

Also, it's worth noting that this is an illiquid market, so the greys have a lot of pricing power in that they can sit on inventory for a while. I've seen a lot of SS Rolexes sitting for a long, long time, because they can.

Rolex and others cannot sit on inventory (they just produce, and ship out).

So no, I do not agree with this.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by namco1

So just to be clear...

We should be expecting another price increase in Jan 2021 for all markets?

I haven't been given a straight answer yet.

The shift to pricing in CHF on the website has caused some confusion.

Historically, only >100k CHF watches are *only* priced in CHF. The rest have been converted to local currencies (especially in the US for USD).

Are they shifting to do that across the board, not just >100k CHF watches? I'm hearing both answers.

[salnuaimi]

Originally Posted by supernova

I believe so as prices in Europe and Asia did not go up in Nov, only in US, so all markets will have had 3 in last year. The Jan 2021 will be the normal annual across the board increase.

The July and Nov one was more an off schedule emergency increase cause of pandemic costs increases. Many of the other luxury brands did similar such as LV and Chanel.

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Prices in ME went up in August

[supernova]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I haven't been given a straight answer yet.

The shift to pricing in CHF on the website has caused some confusion.

Historically, only >100k CHF watches are *only* priced in CHF. The rest have been converted to local currencies (especially in the US for USD).

Are they shifting to do that across the board, not just >100k CHF watches? I'm hearing both answers.

Not sure why you are seeing CHF on US site I’m seeing USD prices when I select it from the bottom of the site as currency.


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[dauster]

Originally Posted by supernova

Not sure why you are seeing CHF on US site I’m seeing USD prices when I select it from the bottom of the site as currency.


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I see chf prices too. Had to manually switch it to USD

[supernova]

Originally Posted by dauster

I see chf prices too. Had to manually switch it to USD

Oh right, I never used to see any prices until I selected a currency. I think they just changed the default currency to CHF and doesn’t mean all prices are going to align with CHF on Jan 2021.


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[Benzsiam]

Originally Posted by dauster

I see chf prices too. Had to manually switch it to USD

You can select the unit of currency according to your country at the bottom of the screen.

[RODODD]

Originally Posted by supernova

Oh right, I never used to see any prices until I selected a currency. I think they just changed the default currency to CHF and doesn’t mean all prices are going to align with CHF on Jan 2021.


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Indeed. Default settings changed, I've selected again my location and price are back to "normal". Anyhow in Italy it is confirmed a price increase in Jan2021..about 5%

[kchu221]

My SA from the vegas boutique told me prices are increasing on January 5th

[BLNR1]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I do not.

Some of us don't consider a Rolex Daytona SS to be a $25k watch.

That's why we don't buy from greys at those prices.

Also, it's worth noting that this is an illiquid market, so the greys have a lot of pricing power in that they can sit on inventory for a while. I've seen a lot of SS Rolexes sitting for a long, long time, because they can.

Rolex and others cannot sit on inventory (they just produce, and ship out).

So no, I do not agree with this.

So the greys can afford to have their capital tied up in a bunch of SS watches for a long long time without moving them at all? Seems to be an interesting business model.

A price increase would squeeze out the grey's and this flipping nonsense. I'd rather pay 25k for a daytona from an official AD at a higher MSRP, with my name on a warranty card and full receipt than go to a grey market dealer at the same price. I also don't want to worry about vetting them and having any issues going through an unofficial route.

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by BLNR1

So the greys can afford to have their capital tied up in a bunch of SS watches for a long long time without moving them at all? Seems to be an interesting business model.

A price increase would squeeze out the grey's and this flipping nonsense. I'd rather pay 25k for a daytona from an official AD at a higher MSRP, with my name on a warranty card and full receipt than go to a grey market dealer at the same price. I also don't want to worry about vetting them and having any issues going through an unofficial route.

If cost of capital is 2.5%-5% and margins are 25-30%, a secondary dealer can easily hold for an entire year without feeling any pain. Not saying this is ideal for the watch world, collectors, or even the dealer with only one inventory turn a year, but just pointing out how distorting zero interest rate environments can be for asset bubbles.

[RollinMoses]

Originally Posted by BLNR1

So the greys can afford to have their capital tied up in a bunch of SS watches for a long long time without moving them at all? Seems to be an interesting business model.

A price increase would squeeze out the grey's and this flipping nonsense. I'd rather pay 25k for a daytona from an official AD at a higher MSRP, with my name on a warranty card and full receipt than go to a grey market dealer at the same price. I also don't want to worry about vetting them and having any issues going through an unofficial route.

An official price increase only helps the secondary market, no? The market price rises with the MSRP and they paid the older prices for the stock they hold.

Availability does not increase, so the scarcity premium to MSRP stays fairly constant.

No buyer ends up with a cheaper watch.

Side note: If you are buying a Daytona from AD now then the current Warranty cards won’t have your name on either.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by RollinMoses

An official price increase only helps the secondary market, no? The market price rises with the MSRP and they paid the older prices for the stock they hold.

Availability does not increase, so the scarcity premium to MSRP stays fairly constant.

No buyer ends up with a cheaper watch.

This is my rationale as well, but I don't purport to know if this is really what happens as I don't have any hard data.

I feel like all a price increase does is pad the manufacture's coffers (I really have no issues with that), and the "premium" percentage on the secondary stays constant. So, if the 15500 MSRP goes up from $21,800 to $24k, I'd also expect the secondary market price to go from ~$38k to ~$40k.

I genuinely see no way out of this problem unless the overall demand dies down. I think it's easy for me to pile on and say "I don't like people that flip", but I'd be talking out of both sides of my mouth. I never acquire and sell immediately, but my tastes change and my priorities change and thus I move in and out of things and I am therefore taking advantage of how the market works in this day and age. I guess if I have any disdain it is having the AD's walk things out the back door to dealers/flippers directly. I wish that would stop.

[tuan2195]

Yeah I think a price increase will just trickle down to the consumers... I recall this time last year I went to 47th street and asked a dealer for a 25860ST, which he quoted 19.5k I think, and told me I should buy now before AP increases prices on Jan 1st. I chalked it up to dealer tactics, but it was true - came back in January and that exact same watch was 21k, and the dealer was just OK with increasing the price of unsold stock.

[MrSlacker]

Was at NYC boutique today. SA said price increase is definitely coming in 2021

[Kittayos]

5% increase in Europe

[Xerxes77]

My AD just informed me that will be a price increase in Europe with 5% from 1 January 2021.....

[Tomas Eriksson]

Makes sense to raise EUR prices, compensate for currency differences.

[supernova]

Originally Posted by Tomas Eriksson

Makes sense to raise EUR prices, compensate for currency differences.

How’s that? AP EUR are the highest globally at the moment. If anything, Asia prices ( eg HKD and SGD) need to move up to balance as they are about 20% lower than EUR.


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[coucher]

On thing I know for sure is that AP are on the aggressive end of price rises. Most manufacturers are doing it to a greater or lesser degree. Milking the current market and grabbing a slice of the grey market pie. I don't blame them cos I would too. Just like we would be asking for discounts in a soft market.

[Vivalas]

Is that 5% confirmed in the U.K. as well? I’ve been told that the U.K. is definitely going up but not the amount.

[Tomas Eriksson]

Originally Posted by supernova

How’s that? AP EUR are the highest globally at the moment. If anything, Asia prices ( eg HKD and SGD) need to move up to balance as they are about 20% lower than EUR.


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sorry, my misstake. I thought the difference between between CHF vs EUR had grown.

[Maverick82]

Guys it’s just defaulting to CHF, scroll to the bottom left of the page and change the currency to usd and the prices haven’t changed since the Nov 2020 increase. Case Closed.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Maverick82

Guys it’s just defaulting to CHF, scroll to the bottom left of the page and change the currency to usd and the prices haven’t changed since the Nov 2020 increase. Case Closed.

correct but Jan 1st increases have been confirmed already by my boutique

[chriskris]

good info