Why NOT go to the AD?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

What are the prices like at HK grey market dealers? I've heard that very good deals can be had.

Generally I notice that they are a bit cheaper than the trusted sellers offer here. My Milgauss GV was US$6,300 which is about what I see used ones going for here. A sub 114060 can be had for US$6,000 or slightly less.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

What are the prices like at HK grey market dealers? I've heard that very good deals can be had.

Yes, very good. It all depends on model~~ supply & demand. In fact, I can sometimes find BNIB watches for the same price as they're being sold 2nd hand in other shops.

[coralfarmer84]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Generally I notice that they are a bit cheaper than the trusted sellers offer here. My Milgauss GV was US$6,300 which is about what I see used ones going for here. A sub 114060 can be had for US$6,000 or slightly less.

Wait till the "price is everything" crowd gets ahold of this info. Hong Kong is going to be flooded with Rolex buyers who just threw their trusted sellers under a bus for the sake of a few pennies

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Generally I notice that they are a bit cheaper than the trusted sellers offer here. My Milgauss GV was US$6,300 which is about what I see used ones going for here. A sub 114060 can be had for US$6,000 or slightly less.

Originally Posted by Jake B

Yes, very good. It all depends on model~~ supply & demand. In fact, I can sometimes find BNIB watches for the same price as they're being sold 2nd hand in other shops.

Nice.

I know what kind of "souvenir" I'll buy when I visit HK.

[Old Expat Beast]

Some of the comments here remind me of Jonathan Winters in this scene...specifically the 1.30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOFCT62C7YE

[nygo]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Some of the comments here remind me of Jonathan Winters in this scene...specifically the the 1.30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOFCT62C7YE

[DCGuy1965]

Lots of responses to get thru but this is definitely a topic of interest. I've personally done one deal with DavidSW, a few thru the AD I've had a relationship with over the years and most recently a very small family owned AD. All have their advantages but I will say the larger AD is a bit sterile. Nice but still impersonal. Don't get me wrong he carries PP, ALS, AP, all the heavy hitters so store is top notch but the small AD was probably the most enjoyable. Nice family. Good prices. No BS and price increase crapola. I also like supporting small business in my area. Now when I step up to the DayDate I will probably go the trusted seller route given the cost savings

[coralfarmer84]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Some of the comments here remind me of Jonathan Winters in this scene...specifically the 1.30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOFCT62C7YE

That just made my night!

[Bulliondesk]

Oy vey. Gents.. too each their own. There is no right or wrong. One can get great pricing from either. You have to know how to work the system. Common sense folks. One can obtain grey market pricing from their AD if they establish a great relationship. It is not difficult. Or they could not and get hosed at retail or such. Although, somehow buying from a "Trusted Seller" doesn't get you invited to an all expense first class paid trip to Patek Philippe Headquarters in Geneva for the most unbelievable week of your life. ;)
FG!

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Some of the comments here remind me of Jonathan Winters in this scene...specifically the 1.30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOFCT62C7YE

[Stuxnet]

Originally Posted by Bulliondesk

Although, somehow buying from a "Trusted Seller" doesn't get you invited to an all expense first class paid trip to Patek Philippe Headquarters in Geneva for the most unbelievable week of your life. ;)
FG!

Wise counsel good sir.

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

Let's be honest Jason, you're biased. I sometimes wonder if David pays you for all the WOM you are giving him.

I am being honest when I state a FACT that DSW offered me a trade on my 116400 when it had an error dial.

Bias?? I call it EXPERIENCE. I own nearly 30 Rolex and Tudor watches bought from many different venues including ADs, DSW, other forum sellers, individuals off the forums, and even Fleabay.

Say what you will, but DavidSW's reputation speaks for itself. TBH, I haven't bought a watch from David in a couple years since I have migrated towards the vintage arena and DSW typically deals the more modern Rolex watches. Buy from whoever you wish to purchase from and do as you choose.......I honestly could care less

[TSts]

Last purchase I made for a Rolex was in Canada (Ottawa) and they (AD) offered a substantial discount, I countered more so. Net deal was 25% off a Stainless Steel watch, no tax either. In my observations, it's all on the AD. I've purchased 4 Rolexes from AD's who offered discounts first - I've also purchased one from our 'Trusted Sellers'.

[coralfarmer84]

Originally Posted by Jason71

I am being honest when I state a FACT that DSW offered me a trade on my 116400 when it had an error dial.

Bias?? I call it EXPERIENCE. I own nearly 30 Rolex and Tudor watches bought from many different venues including ADs, DSW, other forum sellers, individuals off the forums, and even Fleabay.

Say what you will, but DavidSW's reputation speaks for itself. TBH, I haven't bought a watch from David in a couple years since I have migrated towards the vintage arena and DSW typically deals the more modern Rolex watches. Buy from whoever you wish to purchase from and do as you choose.......I honestly could care less

Just out of curiosity why did you even bother DSW about the error if you decided you were keeping the watch either way. I would think you got the watch, noticed the error, contacted him because you weren't happy about it, then he offered to replace or discount your watch and you chose keep watch and get some cash back? Just trying to understand why anyone would contact a seller about a defect that was obvious enough for them to bother the seller and then actually decide to keep it the way it was.

[FremStar]

Very interesting thread...

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by TSts

Last purchase I made for a Rolex was in Canada (Ottawa) and they (AD) offered a substantial discount, I countered more so. Net deal was 25% off a Stainless Steel watch, no tax either. In my observations, it's all on the AD. I've purchased 4 Rolexes from AD's who offered discounts first - I've also purchased one from our 'Trusted Sellers'.

I'd agree with this and the discount mentioned is pretty much in line with what I've achieved in Canada as well.

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

Just out of curiosity why did you even bother DSW about the error if you decided you were keeping the watch either way. I would think you got the watch, noticed the error, contacted him because you weren't happy about it, then he offered to replace or discount your watch and you chose keep watch and get some cash back? Just trying to understand why anyone would contact a seller about a defect that was obvious enough for them to bother the seller and then actually decide to keep it the way it was.

I didn't contact him about the error dial. It never even occurred to me that I had the option of trading it on another watch. I simply started a thread about the mistake on the dial to get people's input about the cause and what my options were at the time ( my first inclination was to source another dial and have it installed ). I had a full Rolex warranty, so I knew I could return it to RSC for a dial exchange. I never even revealed where I had acquired the watch. DavidSW saw the thread (I guess) and contacted me asking if I wanted to return it for another.

That to me speaks VOLUMES about his integrity

[TSts]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I'd agree with this and the discount mentioned is pretty much in line with what I've achieved in Canada as well.

Definitely NOT what you see in So-Cali!

[Bullitt44]

When it comes to something you are passionate about, do what makes you the happiest. I have done both with great experiences. My AD is one of my best friends since childhood, tough not to enjoy that.

Whatever you do embrace it and you can not make a bad decision!

[Gaijin]

Went to sleep late last night and this thread is still going...

[mikxx]

Originally Posted by nygo

I've heard price. Why pay full price if you can get X amount cheaper from X on the forum. When I bought my first Rolex, it was all about the experience. I went into Wempe. Was offered chocolates and Pellegrino. I didn't make a purchase that day -- didn't feel pressured. Came back another weekend, tried on a few watches. Some not even Rolex. Then finally when I was about to make my purchase, the sales person insisted I take my time. No rush. When I finally pulled the trigger, I was offered Veuve Clicquot and even had the watch boxed and gift wrapped. Now, THATs a luxury experience. When you think Rolex, don't you just think luxury and luxury experience? About building a rapport with a salesperson? Or am I just old fashioned? And, has it all just come down to the absolute lowest price?

I buy watches because I like em. Personally I own more than 50 Rs and have never bought one at an AD. Maybe it s that I aint care about the buying process at all and just want to enjoy the watches.

[mikxx]

Originally Posted by TSts

Last purchase I made for a Rolex was in Canada (Ottawa) and they (AD) offered a substantial discount, I countered more so. Net deal was 25% off a Stainless Steel watch, no tax either. In my observations, it's all on the AD. I've purchased 4 Rolexes from AD's who offered discounts first - I've also purchased one from our 'Trusted Sellers'.

Tell me where to get that. We aint got no VAT here but discounts are less than 10% despite the conomy is still like shit.

Just think about it: Buy in Canada a SS Daytona w 25% discount taxfree and sell it in Europe where VAT is 20% about 10% above MRSP. You can make a fortune!

[TSts]

Originally Posted by mikxx

Tell me where to get that. We aint got no VAT here but discounts are less than 10% despite the conomy is still like shit.

Just think about it: Buy in Canada a SS Daytona w 25% discount taxfree and sell it in Europe where VAT is 20% about 10% above MRSP. You can make a fortune!

Howard Fine Jewellers 220 Sparks st.

[asmfa5]

Keystrokes on a keyboard = better buying experience than in a store dealing with a person face to face? I guess it doesn't matter to the typical mooch with poor negotiating and/or people skills that don't know how to deal with live people face-to-face.

If you go to different stores repeatedly and get treated the same and theywon't entertain working a discount for you maybe its time to look at yourself and ask why?

To me these buyers who don't get the time of day somehow convey to the salesperson that:

1. you're wasting time.
2. you'll negotiate and probably go across town for $50 savings.
3. you came in with a chip on your shoulder.

Did you walk into an AD and replied to their greeting with "What's your best price?" Salespeople's easiest way to get rid of a mooch is to brush them off. Since the mooches' main priority and buying decision is "best price", what is the seller's motivation when their commission on the profit margin doesn't make sense to spend time with you? If they sell you a watch and the next time you want to buy something, chances are you will go elsewhere. Obviously you do especially when you complain about multiple ADs not wanting to give you a discount. What incentive do they have to deal with someone like you?

One of my neighbors purchased 4 Hondas in the past year. All purchased from different dealers. One of the dealers was 2 hrs away when there's 8 within a 25 mile drive in any given direction. Where's the loyalty? Pricing on cars are all over the internet. Yet they had to drive 2hrs away? Too weak at negotiating to get a local dealer to come close or match the price? It was worth the time to waste 4 + hrs to save $50? The best price buyer is a salesperson's waste of time. People have no loyalty whatsoever. You don't think salespeople work for repeats and referrals? What did YOU do to trigger them to brush you off?

I've seen this happen while looking at rings: Guy walks in acting aggressive with a stern voice and stone face announces, "whats the best discount if [he] pays cash?" while pointing at some watches. Saleslady gets rid of him by saying "no discount" yet helps a couple afterwards and negotiate a discounted price. Maybe you're that DB that walks in with the chip on their shoulder? Or you have such a pleasant personality yet you convey a to the salesperson that you're a looky-loo or a time waster? You wonder why you are treated like crap whereas someone like me get good service? And no, I do NOT pay full retail or close to it.

My price AFTER tax for my sub was a little more than these US-based "trusted" sellers peddling countless BNIB Rolex watches with foreign warranty cards, meaning my price before tax was considerably less. And I didn't even need to haggle. Just a phone call and expressed interested in buying it. And I'm wasting my time/money with the AD? Relationships with ADs aren't worth it? Really? My one and only AD I've been dealing with also has stories of "no discounts" yet my very first watch several years back was sold to me at a negotiated discount price? And every piece thereafter were sold to me with a nice discount that for some reason is cheaper than the online gray dealers with no work on my part other than a phone call and their understanding of my commitment to purchase whenever I call. Why am I so lucky?

[Muzz]

For me it depends on the watch. I just picked up a Daytona at an AD because it was the same price as everywhere else. My TT Sub and Yacht II were grey market recent purchases. For me, it is who ever has the watch right then and there.

BTW you will never get a discount above 10% in Canada period on a Daytona SS. 20% (or sliightly more) can only be achieved on pieces they want to move.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by asmfa5

Keystrokes on a keyboard = better buying experience than in a store dealing with a person face to face? I guess it doesn't matter to the typical mooch with poor negotiating and/or people skills that don't know how to deal with live people face-to-face.

The service that David/Tony/Oscar/Greg/etc. provide is a lot more than "keystrokes on a keyboard." A salesperson physically showing up and standing in front of me in a store does not automatically make a "better buying experience" just because I can see their face.

Originally Posted by asmfa5

If you go to different stores repeatedly and get treated the same and they won't entertain working a discount for you maybe its time to look at yourself and ask why? ...What did YOU do to trigger them to brush you off?

Seriously? The old "if a salesperson treated you badly, there must be a reason and it's your fault" argument? You wouldn't happen to be in...sales, would you? I'd rather take a look in the For Sale section than take a "look at myself and ask why," thank you very much.

Originally Posted by asmfa5

the mooches' main priority and buying decision is "best price"

There are many factors involved in a purchase, and yes...the best price is a main priority for many people. What exactly makes someone a "mooch" to you?

Originally Posted by asmfa5

My price AFTER tax for my sub was a little more than these US-based "trusted" sellers peddling countless BNIB Rolex watches with foreign warranty cards

Ooh, you put the word "trusted" in quotes and said "peddling" instead of "selling." Nice diss.

Originally Posted by asmfa5

You wonder why you are treated like crap whereas someone like me get good service? ... My one and only AD I've been dealing with also has stories of "no discounts" yet my very first watch several years back was sold to me at a negotiated discount price ... every piece thereafter were sold to me with a nice discount that for some reason is cheaper than the online gray dealers ... Why am I so lucky?

Probably because you're super smart, cool, and awesome at negotiating. Congratulations.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

The service that David/Tony/Oscar/Greg/etc. provide is a lot more than "keystrokes on a keyboard." A salesperson physically showing up and standing in front of me in a store does not automatically make a "better buying experience" just because I can see their face.



Seriously? The old "if a salesperson treated you badly, there must be a reason and it's your fault" argument? You wouldn't happen to be in...sales, would you? I'd rather take a look in the For Sale section than take a "look at myself and ask why," thank you very much.


There are many factors involved in a purchase, and yes...the best price is a main priority for many people. What exactly makes someone a "mooch" to you?


Ooh, you put the word "trusted" in quotes and said "peddling" instead of "selling." Nice diss.



Probably because you're super smart, cool, and awesome at negotiating. Congratulations.

Don't feed the trolls.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by SMD

Don't feed the trolls.

You're right...my bad.

nom nom nom

[subtona]

Originally Posted by SMD

Don't feed the trolls.

[rahible]

I guess everyones experience at an AD is different. Every time my wife and I have bought watches from the AD in Ellisville MO, we went during a slow time of the day for them and have spent at least +2 hours there. Our sales lady, Jeanne, seems more than knowledgable about Breitling, Rolex, and Patek. I say seems because she knows more that I do, and when I verify what she's said about manufacturing, detail and construction on this forum and online, its been true.

She's shown us Patek's and explained their function and craftsmanship. She's compared brands side by side for similar featured watches. She has been able to point out why a Rolex is constructed better than a Breitling (next to each other), and why a Patek is constructed better than a Rolex (next to each other). There is also something cool about looking at 2 different Patek movements with a loupe and having someone explain why the engraving is different. Holding an in house Transocean and a Daytona side by side, feeling how the pushers are different, weight is different, and how they look different on my wrist.

I realize that she is up selling me for my next purchase (hopefully a Patek) and getting me excited about the brands (obviously Patek). But these are experiences I can't get from an online seller, and to me the extra is worth Jeanne's time.

Not saying that I'll always buy from an AD and never buy from a Trusted Seller, but if my next purchase is a Patek, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable spending +$40k without it being face to face ;-)

FWIW: I've never had Champagne and Chocolate at my AD, just got to see beautiful watches I may never be able to afford and that's worth more to me.