AFC Championship time....

[linesiders]

I think the league needs to come up with a procedure that mitigates / eliminates this from happening - it is not hard. The best the document has is that it is probable some elements of the Patriots did this and that it is probable that Brady knew of this practice/ was involved. It is not definitive. Yeh, I think this may have happened and he stonewalled. At this time we do not know.

I do not advocate cheating but I hate it and/or chuckle when thousands of others cast stones when their teams do other things and don't get caught or when they are, it is not the big deal of the "Cheatriots". Some Cheaters, after all, must be more equal than other cheaters.

How is this in the big picture of supposed cheating in the NFL - not very big. But it is relatively easy to resolve / mitigate.

The way the rumors were leaked and propagated was as bad if not worse than the alleged cheat.

http://yourteamcheats.com/

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by linesiders

http://yourteamcheats.com/

Yeah I'm calling "shenanigans" on this site!! "So you think there's only one NFL team that cheats? You're wrong. All 32 NFL teams cheat. Yup, even your favorite team is a dirty cheater, but since they are not that good, nobody really cares."

Who could they possibly be referencing? sounds like something Fitzy from Southie would say...

And the worst culprits:
Denver = 49
Steelers = 46
NYJ = 39
NYG = 35
Indy = 31

All major rivals of which team now...

[mannyv11]

I'll leave it with this

Page 228, section 13. " In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

says enough for me, it's a witch hunt

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by mannyv11

I'll leave it with this

Page 228, section 13. " In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

says enough for me, it's a witch hunt

Absolute certainty is a very high standard of proof, indeed.

In criminal court the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt.

In civil court it is a preponderance of evidence.

Clear and convincing evidence is required in civil proceedings such as termination of parental rights.

Calling this investigation a witch hunt is not only unwarranted, but an indication of extreme denial of the facts as presented.

At the very least an investigation was called for based on number of balls under-inflated and the history of cheating by the Patriots.

Now, it is up to the league to determine a course of action.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/s217.htm

[locutus49]

Someone wrote that appropriate punishment would be to make Tom Brady play for the Jets for a year (*_*)

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Someone wrote that appropriate punishment would be to make Tom Brady play for the Jets for a year (*_*)

I think every team should have a box of balls delivered from Wilson twenty minutes before kickoff. The teams can then do with them as they will in accordance with the rules and regulations.

[mannyv11]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Absolute certainty is a very high standard of proof, indeed.

In criminal court the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt.

In civil court it is a preponderance of evidence.

Clear and convincing evidence is required in civil proceedings such as termination of parental rights.

Calling this investigation a witch hunt is not only unwarranted, but an indication of extreme denial of the facts as presented.

At the very least an investigation was called for based on number of balls under-inflated and the history of cheating by the Patriots.

Now, it is up to the league to determine a course of action.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/s217.htm

I can honestly say that I am not in denial regarding the situation with the patriots. But like Marc has pointed out in a previous post all 32 NFL teams cheat many of which according to his list have been caught many times. Every time one of those teams gets caught I don't hear about it on ESPN or the news. I also don't hear fans calling for the NFL to throw the book at them yada yada yada.

No matter what the thing that is the most annoying about this is simple, because the new england patriots were guilty of "spygate" they have been under a microscope, a microscope that no other NFL team has been under and it's getting a little old and tiring.

I enjoy watching football and I agree with you that cheaters should be punished, but when other NFL quarterbacks have said they "doctor" the ball and no one is calling for their heads but they want Tom Brady Banned from the NFL, it's just a bit ridiculous.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by mannyv11

...they want Tom Brady Banned from the NFL, it's just a bit ridiculous.

I think the worst that will happen to Brady will be a suspension and that might be based on not cooperating with the investigation. Maybe the Patriots will lose a draft pick and will pay a fine.

That would seem commensurate with the infractions.

Sent from my SM-G900V

[Tripp11]

Originally Posted by mannyv11

I enjoy watching football and I agree with you that cheaters should be punished, but when other NFL quarterbacks have said they "doctor" the ball and no one is calling for their heads but they want Tom Brady Banned from the NFL, it's just a bit ridiculous.

But scuffing/massaging the ball is legal. Having equipment personnel purposely decrease the PSI in each ball below the minimum standard after a NFL official has tested game balls is not legal.

I don't want Tom banned from the NFL. Hell, the Patriot organization has found a way to win, year after year, and do so with massive personnel changes - and I think that shows the greatness that is Tom Brady and BB as head coach.

[wantonebad]

Actually Manny I was making fun of that cheating site which I think is completely BS and is biased, but that's just my personal opinion.

[Wllnv19]

[QUOTE=wantonebad;5823198]There is some truth to what you are saying however at this stage I want Brady to come clean, if that means he did some doctoring, tell us. If that means that McNally and Yaz had orders to do some tinkering after the ref inspection then tell us, this is not circle the wagons time. Whether the scrutiny, accusations and attention on the patriots for this incident is fair, not fair, a witch hunt or an orchestrated attack by the NFL, two rival franchises or self destruction doesn't matter to me, I want the truth and I don't want to hear about jealousy or ulterior motives. Someone needs to man up here and right now I think that person is Brady. If he did nothing he needs to compel us all in some way that he did nothing, sorry, that's how I feel.

No bigger Boston sports fan anywhere then me, but this is getting very tiring. Can't wait till Sunday's mother's day Brunch at my BIL's house, he's a GIANTS/Yankee's fan and my Nephew lives in Baltimore, loves the Ravens and they both have battalions worth of ammo for me. I better wear my Kevlar



Great post..don't think it will happen tho

[Ed Rooney]

Whatever happens, I don't think Brady should be banned for the season opener.

[mannyv11]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

Actually Manny I was making fun of that cheating site which I think is completely BS and is biased, but that's just my personal opinion.

Lol that's what I get for not clicking on the site haha. I thought you were helping me out :)

That's what I get for not doing my own research lol

[GradyPhilpott]

Now this is interesting.

The Colts sent the NFL an email before the AFC title game saying exactly what the Patriots were going to do

You can read it for yourselves on page 48 of the report PDF.

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com...=auto,-265,757

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

Yeah I'm calling "shenanigans" on this site!! "So you think there's only one NFL team that cheats? You're wrong. All 32 NFL teams cheat. Yup, even your favorite team is a dirty cheater, but since they are not that good, nobody really cares."

Who could they possibly be referencing? sounds like something Fitzy from Southie would say...

And the worst culprits:
Denver = 49
Steelers = 46
NYJ = 39
NYG = 35
Indy = 31

All major rivals of which team now...

Hahaha - Might not be far from the mahk at all.

Waiting for the next Fitzy video - but being "Townie News" I always assumed C-Town, not Southie

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

What's the integrity of the game worth?

I don't know you tell me.

If integrity is important to the NFL then explain to me why they let the patriots play with supposedly underinflated balls for a whole first half during the AFC championship game.

How is that integrity??

[Tripp11]

Originally Posted by Brunotheboxer

I don't know you tell me.

If integrity is important to the NFL then explain to me why they let the patriots play with supposedly underinflated balls for a whole first half during the AFC championship game.

How is that integrity??

The NFL honestly can't get out of their own way over the last few years when it comes to investigations, penalties, etc...

No one is disputing that the NFL was alerted about possibility of ball tampering by the Patriots. And the Head Official was supposedly alerted to this possibility. Why he lost sight of the Patriot balls, after he inspected them, who knows? Why the balls weren't tested again during the first half or right before the game, who knows? Instead, they did some sting operation where they seized the balls at half-time.

This whole fiasco could have been avoided if the NFL simply would have said to the Patriots, "This is what we've been told about what you're doing. Stop it. Stop it now. We're going to be looking for this."

Instead, they just tried to have a "gotcha" moment and it's failed miserably.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Tripp11

The NFL honestly can't get out of their own way over the last few years when it comes to investigations, penalties, etc...

No one is disputing that the NFL was alerted about possibility of ball tampering by the Patriots. And the Head Official was supposedly alerted to this possibility. Why he lost sight of the Patriot balls, after he inspected them, who knows? Why the balls weren't tested again during the first half or right before the game, who knows? Instead, they did some sting operation where they seized the balls at half-time.

This whole fiasco could have been avoided if the NFL simply would have said to the Patriots, "This is what we've been told about what you're doing. Stop it. Stop it now. We're going to be looking for this."

Instead, they just tried to have a "gotcha" moment and it's failed miserably.

Agreed!

I'm still dying to hear from Brady!!

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by Tripp11

The NFL honestly can't get out of their own way over the last few years when it comes to investigations, penalties, etc...

No one is disputing that the NFL was alerted about possibility of ball tampering by the Patriots. And the Head Official was supposedly alerted to this possibility. Why he lost sight of the Patriot balls, after he inspected them, who knows? Why the balls weren't tested again during the first half or right before the game, who knows? Instead, they did some sting operation where they seized the balls at half-time.

This whole fiasco could have been avoided if the NFL simply would have said to the Patriots, "This is what we've been told about what you're doing. Stop it. Stop it now. We're going to be looking for this."

Instead, they just tried to have a "gotcha" moment and it's failed miserably.

Well stated.

[GradyPhilpott]

This is what the report says about how the NFL proceeded and why. I can't say that I agree with this rationale, but this is why they say there was no sting.

Footnote 25

Because Sullivan's email did not provide specific factual support for the Colts' concerns, NFL officials determined that it was not necessary to ask the game officials preemptively to check the air pressure in the Patriots game balls during the game, as Sullivan had requested. They reported during interviews that, without additional specific information that might raise further concern, they believed that the referee's standard pregame inspection of the game balls would be sufficient, and that a change in the standard inspection protocols was not necessary. In particular, prior to the game, there was no plan to check the air pressure of the balls at halftime or any other time during the game. There was no “sting” operation, no plan for a “sting” operation and no discussion of a “sting” operation.

Page 50 of the PDF.

[Cru Jones]

Brady and the Patriots, Manny and Ortiz and the 2004 Red Sox.... Quite the Boston sports "legacy".

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

This is what the report says about how the NFL proceeded and why. I can't say that I agree with this rationale, but this is why they say there was no sting.

Footnote 25

Because Sullivan‟s email did not provide specific factual support for the Colts‟ concerns, NFL officials determined that it was not necessary to ask the game officials preemptively to check the air pressure in the Patriots game balls during the game, as Sullivan had requested. They reported during interviews that, without additional specific information that might raise further concern, they believed that the referee‟s standard pregame inspection of the game balls would be sufficient, and that a change in the standard inspection protocols was not necessary. In particular, prior to the game, there was no plan to check the air pressure of the balls at halftime or any other time during the game. There was no “sting” operation, no plan for a “sting” operation and no discussion of a “sting” operation.

Page 50 of the PDF.

Leave the word sting out of it, lets just call it what it was, an inspection, an unscheduled unusual unprecedented inspection, that was bungled and incomplete. the NFL and the on field officials messed it up.

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Brady and the Patriots, Manny and Ortiz and the 2004 Red Sox.... Quite the Boston sports "legacy".

It is Cru! thanks for noticing!

[GradyPhilpott]

I agree that there was no sting or talk of a sting, but when the Colts' equipment man blew the whistle, as it were, I don't think the league had a choice at that time.

[Tripp11]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

This is what the report says about how the NFL proceeded and why. I can't say that I agree with this rationale, but this is why they say there was no sting.

Footnote 25

Because Sullivan's email did not provide specific factual support for the Colts' concerns, NFL officials determined that it was not necessary to ask the game officials preemptively to check the air pressure in the Patriots game balls during the game, as Sullivan had requested. They reported during interviews that, without additional specific information that might raise further concern, they believed that the referee's standard pregame inspection of the game balls would be sufficient, and that a change in the standard inspection protocols was not necessary. In particular, prior to the game, there was no plan to check the air pressure of the balls at halftime or any other time during the game. There was no “sting” operation, no plan for a “sting” operation and no discussion of a “sting” operation.

Page 50 of the PDF.

When the head official lost track of the balls and had no idea where they went, he should have taken action. I've not read the entire report, nor word searched the PDF, but surely the NFL notified the officiating crew of the issue.

This all could have been avoided if the NFL would have just been more proactive about this claim. And it would have saved everyone in the NFL (including the teams, players, officials) yet another black eye when the organization already is battered and bruised from past bungled investigations.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by Tripp11

I've not read the entire report, nor word searched the PDF, but surely the NFL notified the officiating crew of the issue.

This says that they did not notify the officiating crew.

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Footnote 25

Because Sullivan's email did not provide specific factual support for the Colts' concerns, NFL officials determined that it was not necessary to ask the game officials preemptively to check the air pressure in the Patriots game balls during the game, as Sullivan had requested. They reported during interviews that, without additional specific information that might raise further concern, they believed that the referee's standard pregame inspection of the game balls would be sufficient, and that a change in the standard inspection protocols was not necessary. In particular, prior to the game, there was no plan to check the air pressure of the balls at halftime or any other time during the game. There was no “sting” operation, no plan for a “sting” operation and no discussion of a “sting” operation.

Page 50 of the PDF.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

Leave the word sting out of it, lets just call it what it was, an inspection, an unscheduled unusual unprecedented inspection, that was bungled and incomplete. the NFL and the on field officials messed it up.



It is Cru! thanks for noticing!

Perhaps if properly inspected and handled the score would have only been 35-7? Just a thought...My guess is the balls weren't what made the Colts offense completely useless not to mention their defense.

PS I hear next year he will have them over inflated due to the weight from his 4 SB rings.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by HL65

Perhaps if properly inspected and handled the score would have only been 35-7? Just a thought...My guess is the balls weren't what made the Colts offense completely useless not to mention their defense.

PS I hear next year he will have them over inflated due to the weight from his 4 SB rings.

X2... The patriots could have used a medicine ball, and the Colts defense still wouldn't have stopped them......

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by HL65

Perhaps if properly inspected and handled the score would have only been 35-7? Just a thought...My guess is the balls weren't what made the Colts offense completely useless not to mention their defense.

PS I hear next year he will have them over inflated due to the weight from his 4 SB rings.

Valid point ken but being a bills fan I have no choice but to hate the patriots and call for burning them at the stake

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Valid point ken but being a bills fan I have no choice but to hate the patriots and call for burning them at the stake

That's the joke around the NFL, some people would be ok if Dzhokhar Tsarnaev got life, but Brady has to get the death penalty!

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Brady and the Patriots, Manny and Ortiz and the 2004 Red Sox.... Quite the Boston sports "legacy".

We are the number one sports city in the world baby. No ones even close.