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Clay · 12 January 2011, 02:44 AM

I once owned an F series Sea Dweller....NO lug holes.....The watch was on a NATO strap.........

While cutting wood, I noticed that one end of spring bar had come out....

The watch was hanging by the other......

In the end, no harm done.......

Sold the F series and bought a Y series (With lug holes) ...No worries.....

I have heard that because the "spring bar" goes deeper into the lug on a watch WITH lug holes, you get a more secure connection...

Thoughts???

marcinthemiddle · 12 January 2011, 02:47 AM

I always liked the look of a clean, "No-holes" case....
As for the difference in security, that I'm not sure about.

drtooth73 · 12 January 2011, 02:48 AM

i like lug holes, because its easier to change the band

sea-dweller · 12 January 2011, 02:49 AM

I like lug holes!

Jason71 · 12 January 2011, 02:50 AM

Definitely superior with drilled lugs that extend through the entire lug. I have had something similar happen while diving. Aesthetically it is not as pleasing to some, but it is definitely more functional IMHO.

MonBK · 12 January 2011, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclevoy

Definitely superior with drilled lugs that extend through the entire lug. I have had something similar happen while diving. Aesthetically it is not as pleasing to some, but it is definitely more functional IMHO.

x2

PhilM · 12 January 2011, 02:53 AM

Could also have been down to a weak \ inferior spring bar.

Rolex Freak · 12 January 2011, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcinthemiddle

I always liked the look of a clean, "No-holes" case....
As for the difference in security, that I'm not sure about.

x2

dsio · 12 January 2011, 02:59 AM

Lug holes are great, love them for strap changes, and you're absolutely right about the wider springbars being more secure. Changing the sub's strap/bracelet is cake, doing it on the SMPC is a bastard. Have to use the little pitchfork thing on the 6111 tool and even then I can never line it up without scratching something.

Tools · 12 January 2011, 03:07 AM

The lug holes are definitely more secure. The pivot ends on later spring-bars are 1.00mm thick and extend into the case a short distance. The pivots on the early lug hole spring-bars are 1.2mm thick and extend all the way into the lug holes..

However, I have been preaching the evils of the NATO strap with spring-bars for years.. It is NOT more secure than the bracelet and lateral movement of the nylon strap will collapse spring-bars causing them to pop out of the holes.. That's the reason why original Military strap-bars are welded in place and solid...

Put a NATO on for the look, not in the mistaken belief that it is more secure than the original, properly fitted bracelet......

marcinthemiddle · 12 January 2011, 03:08 AM

Thanks, Larry!

Jason71 · 12 January 2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tools

The lug holes are definitely more secure. The pivot ends on later spring-bars are 1.00mm thick and extend into the case a short distance. The pivots on the early lug hole spring-bars are 1.2mm thick and extend all the way into the lug holes..

However, I have been preaching the evils of the NATO strap with spring-bars for years.. It is NOT more secure than the bracelet and lateral movement of the nylon strap will collapse spring-bars causing them to pop out of the holes.. That's the reason why original Military strap-bars are welded in place and solid...

Put a NATO on for the look, not in the mistaken belief that it is more secure than the original, properly fitted bracelet......

Even though that might be partially true Larry, I would argue that a NATO is more secure from the aspect that it would take both spring bars failing at the same time to lose your watch. If you had a bracelet failure underwater, it would definitely be possible to lose the watch since I secure my watch on the outside of my wetsuit and would likely not feel it slip off my wrist. Your point about the issue with lateral movement of the nylon strap is well taken, but I still personally feel more secure diving with a NATO.

(Also, it is much easier to get a good fit with a NATO on the outside of a wetsuit)

detyler · 12 January 2011, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tools

The lug holes are definitely more secure. The pivot ends on later spring-bars are 1.00mm thick and extend into the case a short distance. The pivots on the early lug hole spring-bars are 1.2mm thick and extend all the way into the lug holes..

However, I have been preaching the evils of the NATO strap with spring-bars for years.. It is NOT more secure than the bracelet and lateral movement of the nylon strap will collapse spring-bars causing them to pop out of the holes.. That's the reason why original Military strap-bars are welded in place and solid...

Put a NATO on for the look, not in the mistaken belief that it is more secure than the original, properly fitted bracelet......

Excellent point!

detyler · 12 January 2011, 03:40 AM

I love the lug holes on a tool watch. Super easy to change, and looks fine on a tool. I hate the little fork tools.

David Woo · 12 January 2011, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tools

lateral movement of the nylon strap will collapse spring-bars causing them to pop out of the holes.

I've had this happen with rubber straps when a strong lateral motion is transmitted to the spring bar and partially compresses the spring bar, allowing for one end to pop loose of the lug hole. Have not lost a watch yet, knock on wood.
DW

Dr. Robert · 12 January 2011, 04:17 AM

Are lug holes better? yes, si, oui, ja................Rolex, are you listening??? Bring them back!

Frogman4me · 12 January 2011, 04:42 AM

Yes bring drilled lug holes back! I love it!

STEELINOX · 12 January 2011, 04:51 AM

Heck yes, they're a better construct for watch casings !

slcbbrown · 12 January 2011, 07:11 AM

Prefer lug holes.

rmfnla · 12 January 2011, 07:14 AM

Lug holes also allow you to see that the pin is fully seated in the hole, something not possible to determine from the underside of the watch.

renfield33 · 12 January 2011, 07:27 AM

see my signature

STEELINOX · 12 January 2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renfield33

see my signature

dddrees · 12 January 2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tools

The lug holes are definitely more secure. The pivot ends on later spring-bars are 1.00mm thick and extend into the case a short distance. The pivots on the early lug hole spring-bars are 1.2mm thick and extend all the way into the lug holes..

However, I have been preaching the evils of the NATO strap with spring-bars for years.. It is NOT more secure than the bracelet and lateral movement of the nylon strap will collapse spring-bars causing them to pop out of the holes.. That's the reason why original Military strap-bars are welded in place and solid...

Put a NATO on for the look, not in the mistaken belief that it is more secure than the original, properly fitted bracelet......

Good to know, thanks Larry.

mkw · 12 January 2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dddrees

Good to know, thanks Larry.

The Rolex 2mm diam single shoulder spring bars with 1.2 mm pivots ( ends ) as installed into the lug hole cases have pivot ends that extend 2-3 mm into the case. Install a bar w/o any strap, then move the free sliding center section back and forth - the pivot ends don't budge . So using a NATO on a lug hole Rolex is a pretty secure set up, as opposed to using one on their latest sport watches with spring bars with flanged ends, where the pivot ends are at most 1 + mm seated into the case. Yeah , in that case , I can see "NATO lateral shifting " possibly popping off that type of bar.

OTOH, I would be nervous wearing a watch with welded -in strap bars . If my watch got snagged by something exerting massive tractive force when doing high speed activities , I want to sacrifice my watch , not my hand !

STEELINOX · 12 January 2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkw

The Rolex 2mm diam single shoulder spring bars with 1.2 mm pivots ( ends ) as installed into the lug hole cases have pivot ends that extend 2-3 mm into the case. Install a bar w/o any strap, then move the free sliding center section back and forth - the pivot ends don't budge . So using a NATO on a lug hole Rolex is a pretty secure set up, as opposed to using one on their latest sport watches with spring bars with flanged ends, where the pivot ends are at most 1 + mm seated into the case. Yeah , in that case , I can see "NATO lateral shifting " possibly popping off that type of bar.

OTOH, I would be nervous wearing a watch with welded -in strap bars . If my watch got snagged by something exerting massive tractive force when doing high speed activities , I want to sacrifice my watch , not my hand !

dsio · 12 January 2011, 01:06 PM

The other thing is I've occasionally fitted a non-lug hole bracelet, and thought it was secure only to find it hadn't gone into the hole fully and popped out. Lug holes let you visually inspect and verify that the springbar has seated correctly.

chestercopperpot · 12 January 2011, 01:28 PM

i'm all for the lug holes, looks good and tells me i'm special haha

p_mcgee · 12 January 2011, 02:04 PM

"No lug holes case" was clearly a feature I could do without when shopping for a GMT, especially with the higher price attached. Now I don't notice the lug holes & will probably never take off the bracelet. I guess its nice knowing that I could if I had to.

hdrazor251 · 12 January 2011, 02:09 PM

+1 for lug holes

Hooper · 12 January 2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcinthemiddle

i always liked the look of a clean, "no-holes" case....
As for the difference in security, that i'm not sure about.

x3

12 January 2011, 02:44 AM	#1
Clay Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Up a tree Posts: 4,001	Are lug holes better???? I once owned an F series Sea Dweller....NO lug holes.....The watch was on a NATO strap......... While cutting wood, I noticed that one end of spring bar had come out.... The watch was hanging by the other...... In the end, no harm done....... Sold the F series and bought a Y series (With lug holes) ...No worries..... I have heard that because the "spring bar" goes deeper into the lug on a watch WITH lug holes, you get a more secure connection... Thoughts???

12 January 2011, 02:47 AM	#2
marcinthemiddle Vacated Join Date: Nov 2009 Real Name: Marc Location: Connecticut Watch: PAM 111 'N' Posts: 2,558	I always liked the look of a clean, "No-holes" case.... As for the difference in security, that I'm not sure about. __________________ NAWCC Member Card Carrying Member of the Global Assoc. of Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons Executive Dorklehead

12 January 2011, 02:49 AM	#4
sea-dweller "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Real Name: Dennis Location: Bay Area - 925 Posts: 40,018	I like lug holes! __________________ TRF Member #6699 (since September 2007)

12 January 2011, 02:50 AM	#5
Jason71 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Real Name: Jason Location: USA Watch: Rolex/Tudor Divers Posts: 7,973	Definitely superior with drilled lugs that extend through the entire lug. I have had something similar happen while diving. Aesthetically it is not as pleasing to some, but it is definitely more functional IMHO. __________________ Best Regards, Jason Just Say "NO" to Polishing Card-Carrying Member of the Global Association of Retro-Grouch Curmudgeons LIfe is too short to wear inexpensive watches PLEXI IS SEXY

12 January 2011, 02:59 AM	#9
dsio "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Real Name: Ashley Location: Brisbane Watch: Rolex Sub 1680 '79 Posts: 2,301	Lug holes are great, love them for strap changes, and you're absolutely right about the wider springbars being more secure. Changing the sub's strap/bracelet is cake, doing it on the SMPC is a bastard. Have to use the little pitchfork thing on the 6111 tool and even then I can never line it up without scratching something. __________________ -- Omega Seamaster Grand-Lux Stepped Pie-Pan 14K Gold OJ2627 '53 -- -- Omega Cal 320 Chronograph 18K Gold OT2872 '58 -- -- Omega Cal 321 Speedmaster Pro 145.012 '67 -- -- Rolex Submariner 1680 "Ghost" '79 -- -- Rolex SS Daytona 116520 '04 --

12 January 2011, 02:48 AM	#3
drtooth73 Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: W. Stutman Location: Motor City Watch: TT GMT IIC Posts: 2,223	i like lug holes, because its easier to change the band

12 January 2011, 02:53 AM	#7
PhilM "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Real Name: Phil Location: London Watch: Sea-Dweller Posts: 1,765	Could also have been down to a weak \ inferior spring bar.

12 January 2011, 03:07 AM	#10
Tools TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Larry Location: Mojave Desert Watch: GMT's Posts: 43,490	The lug holes are definitely more secure. The pivot ends on later spring-bars are 1.00mm thick and extend into the case a short distance. The pivots on the early lug hole spring-bars are 1.2mm thick and extend all the way into the lug holes.. However, I have been preaching the evils of the NATO strap with spring-bars for years.. It is NOT more secure than the bracelet and lateral movement of the nylon strap will collapse spring-bars causing them to pop out of the holes.. That's the reason why original Military strap-bars are welded in place and solid... Put a NATO on for the look, not in the mistaken belief that it is more secure than the original, properly fitted bracelet...... __________________ (Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member

12 January 2011, 03:08 AM	#11
marcinthemiddle Vacated Join Date: Nov 2009 Real Name: Marc Location: Connecticut Watch: PAM 111 'N' Posts: 2,558	Thanks, Larry! __________________ NAWCC Member Card Carrying Member of the Global Assoc. of Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons Executive Dorklehead

12 January 2011, 03:40 AM	#14
detyler "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: David Tyler Location: Alabama Watch: White Milgauss Posts: 90	I love the lug holes on a tool watch. Super easy to change, and looks fine on a tool. I hate the little fork tools.

12 January 2011, 04:17 AM	#16
Dr. Robert 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: Bob Location: U.S.A. Watch: 1655 Posts: 63,962	Are lug holes better? yes, si, oui, ja................Rolex, are you listening??? Bring them back! __________________ Founder & Card Carrying Member of the Global Association of Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons

12 January 2011, 04:42 AM	#17
Frogman4me Banned Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Maryland Posts: 6,268	Yes bring drilled lug holes back! I love it!

12 January 2011, 04:51 AM	#18
STEELINOX 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Real Name: Sink-O! Location: a praire in AZ Watch: ROLEX-less atm... Posts: 14,020	Heck yes, they're a better construct for watch casings ! __________________ *Positive Waves Baby* Lug Hole Loyalist / Chamfer Line Inspector INFORTHE WIN SUB-MAH-REEEN-ER ~ !

12 January 2011, 07:11 AM	#19
slcbbrown "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2009 Real Name: steve Location: dallas area Watch: 50's TT t-bird Posts: 3,689	Prefer lug holes.

12 January 2011, 07:14 AM	#20
rmfnla "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Real Name: Richard Location: Los Angeles, CA Watch: TT DJ Posts: 4,456	Lug holes also allow you to see that the pin is fully seated in the hole, something not possible to determine from the underside of the watch. __________________ Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here... Lug Hole Lover®

12 January 2011, 07:27 AM	#21
renfield33 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Watch: GMT-II Pepsi Posts: 1,051	see my signature __________________ Lug hole loyalist!

12 January 2011, 01:06 PM	#26
dsio "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Real Name: Ashley Location: Brisbane Watch: Rolex Sub 1680 '79 Posts: 2,301	The other thing is I've occasionally fitted a non-lug hole bracelet, and thought it was secure only to find it hadn't gone into the hole fully and popped out. Lug holes let you visually inspect and verify that the springbar has seated correctly. __________________ -- Omega Seamaster Grand-Lux Stepped Pie-Pan 14K Gold OJ2627 '53 -- -- Omega Cal 320 Chronograph 18K Gold OT2872 '58 -- -- Omega Cal 321 Speedmaster Pro 145.012 '67 -- -- Rolex Submariner 1680 "Ghost" '79 -- -- Rolex SS Daytona 116520 '04 --

12 January 2011, 01:28 PM	#27
chestercopperpot "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New York City Posts: 249	i'm all for the lug holes, looks good and tells me i'm special haha

12 January 2011, 02:04 PM	#28
p_mcgee "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,150	"No lug holes case" was clearly a feature I could do without when shopping for a GMT, especially with the higher price attached. Now I don't notice the lug holes & will probably never take off the bracelet. I guess its nice knowing that I could if I had to.

12 January 2011, 02:09 PM	#29
hdrazor251 "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Real Name: Jeff Location: Arizona Watch: is recovered!! Posts: 4,255	+1 for lug holes

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