PO: accurate, beautiful, expensive -- but can't dive

[H.W. Frank]

Got my 2201.50 about a year ago, NIB from Bernard's gray market. Looks great, and runs super accurate -- as long as you don't actually dive with it. By way of background, I do deep Great Lakes (USA) technical wreck diving for fun. Mixed-gas diving down to depths well over 200 feet in 39 degree Fahrenheit water. Took the PO out this past weekend in northern Lake Michigan, and it seizes up as soon as it gets deep.

Starts ticking again, like nothing happened, as soon as you hit your 70' or 60' deco stops, just don't count on this "2000 ft" watch for any real diving. Good thing I had my normal instruments to get me up safely, and that the watch was just along for the ride because I meant to christen it as a real diver. It isn't.

Maybe I'll take my Rolex Sub next time.

H.W. Frank

[Gretsch]

WOW! That's certainly disconcerting. Off to Omega for service then? I always have my DC with me (not that I'm doing the technical diving that you are). Are you running tri-mix at those depths? Rebreather?

[poppydog]

Just a thought, but if the surface temp' is 39, then could it be the colder temp' at depth that is the problem? I was diving with my first PO in similar temp' water (slightly colder actually) and in-water, it would just stop dead, but start again and run fine at the surface. I'd used it before in warmer conditions and it ran perfectly (I assumed it was an issue with the lubrication thickening in the cold). It was still under gaurantee and my AD swapped it for me. I've since dived with the replacement in the same conditions with no problem. I'm certainly no expert, but I'd be suprised if it was the pressure causing the problem.

[Trev]

Sounds defective, in one way or another. Or perhaps the wrong lubricant was used.

I wonder if PO owners in (very) cold climates have experienced anything similar? Anyone from the colder parts of Canada, Russia, etc should know

[salem65]

Wow, that is some good information to post; Not very good quality control.
I would hate to purchase one and be doing a dive in our cold Northern waters, only to have my 3k watch stop working below 70'. I have done wreak dives to 130' with $100 quartz dive watches and they ran fine, so my guess would be the oil thickening too.

[rolexertion]

The stopping of the balance wheel would no doubt be due to the caseback deforming under pressure and changing something to do with the friction of the geartrain. I suspect Omega could fairly easily discover what was up and put it right.

[psv]

Yepp, get a Rolex instead! (duck and run... ;-))

[dsio]

Originally Posted by H.W. Frank

Got my 2201.50 about a year ago, NIB from Bernard's gray market. Looks great, and runs super accurate -- as long as you don't actually dive with it. By way of background, I do deep Great Lakes (USA) technical wreck diving for fun. Mixed-gas diving down to depths well over 200 feet in 39 degree Fahrenheit water. Took the PO out this past weekend in northern Lake Michigan, and it seizes up as soon as it gets deep.

Starts ticking again, like nothing happened, as soon as you hit your 70' or 60' deco stops, just don't count on this "2000 ft" watch for any real diving. Good thing I had my normal instruments to get me up safely, and that the watch was just along for the ride because I meant to christen it as a real diver. It isn't.

Maybe I'll take my Rolex Sub next time.

H.W. Frank

The likelihood of depth having any effect on it, is rather laughable. The two possibilities you have are A: You didn't wind the watch fully and there was not enough movement to keep it running on your dive until you wiggled it around a fair bit to look at it on your decompression stop (Most likely by far) or B: You're running one of the early 2500A movements that have known issues and were taken care of by Omega.

The notion that your dive depth had anything to do with it, is frankly just being stupid. You've got two things in play that would have any real effect, water, and pressure.

Is it flooded, or has it been mechanically compressed or crushed? If not you're back to A and B, with an emphasis on A.

[rolexertion]

Originally Posted by dsio

The likelihood of depth having any effect on it, is rather laughable. The notion that your dive depth had anything to do with it, is frankly just being stupid.

Excuse me? Isn't that a bit of a hostile and aggressive retort to the OP? Do you have a reason for that?

[dsio]

Originally Posted by rolexertion

Excuse me? Isn't that a bit of a hostile and aggressive retort to the OP? Do you have a reason for that?

Actually it was probably your post I was directing that to rather than the original.

The notion that a 2mm thick piece of 316L stainless steel with a heavily domed edge would be deformed at 200 feet when the flat plexiglass (plastic) crystal of a 1970s datejust is safely rated to over 300 feet.

I mean forgive me for seaming hostile, but I'm just not sure how exactly to even respond to that.

The original poster's remark:

"just don't count on this "2000 ft" watch for any real diving. Good thing I had my normal instruments to get me up safely, and that the watch was just along for the ride because I meant to christen it as a real diver. It isn't."

Also had me shaking my head, but the caseback deformation explanation in 60m of water was something else entirely.

I mean seriously some person that comes here off a google search could actually take these statements as a matter of fact and truly believe that Planet Oceans are not safe to go into the water with. Or that a watch caseback made of thick steel will start to bend to the point of having an effect on the movement when taken to common recreational diving depths.

And this is all before a watchmaker has even looked at the thing.

Once again, I'm sorry for being aggressive, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion but this just seamed to be a typical case of incorrect hypothesis leading to misleading statements of fact, backed up by others with no evidence.

[psv]

Perhaps, but not exactly a diplomatic way of expression your opinion...

[salem65]

Originally Posted by dsio

The likelihood of depth having any effect on it, is rather laughable. The two possibilities you have are A: You didn't wind the watch fully and there was not enough movement to keep it running on your dive until you wiggled it around a fair bit to look at it on your decompression stop (Most likely by far) or B: You're running one of the early 2500A movements that have known issues and were taken care of by Omega.

The notion that your dive depth had anything to do with it, is frankly just being stupid. You've got two things in play that would have any real effect, water, and pressure.

Is it flooded, or has it been mechanically compressed or crushed? If not you're back to A and B, with an emphasis on A.

I believe that variable C=Temperature would certainly have an effect as well.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by salem65

I believe that variable C=Temperature would certainly have an effect as well.

I very much doubt it. Garden variety Speedmasters withstood extremes well below that in service with NASA, with the "Alaska Project" being rated for -148° C and +260°C. In the paperwork with my Seamaster Chronograph they mention the oils currently used are entirely safe at between -20° C and 70° C. Now perhaps with the PO they stopped using that, and switched to vaseline, but I just don't see it.

The most obvious and uncomplicated explanation is the one I mentioned above, that it wasn't fully wound at the start of the dive, and wound down due to lack of significant arm movement.

[STEELINOX]

dsio, I too think this is operator error.


One thing I do when preparing for a dive is I manually wind my timepiece up before I enter the water; this does two things, one it winds it and two, I have to screw the crown down verifying a water tight seal...

Its kinda like this guy - why do you think he winds his timepieces up before a voyage - its not rocket science !
[Course Ed Mitchell has another thing in mind when winding...]

[H.W. Frank]

dsio:

(1) It was fully wound that morning, 80 turns+. Not my first or only mechanical, and not a new watch to me, but thanks for the hypothesis anyway.
(2) I offered no theory as to why it did this three times in a row over multiple days, only the accurate report that it did so, along with the opinion that a watch that can't handle a 200' dive isn't much of a diver.
(3) I am experienced down to 300' cold water, and that depth has never damaged any of the lights/gauges etc. that are necessary to make these dives. I can't imagine a reason how depth and/or cold could effect a watch like this, but the facts are the facts.
(4) Re your confusion [Post #10] about my comment on other instruments getting me up safely -- in this kind of diving, we use bottom and depth timers, cut our deco tables and profiles ahead of time, and then follow the stops and gas switches religiously, either stand alone or in conjunction with a trimix computer. Hope that helped clear it up for you.

All: any comments from others who have actually taken their PO's deep appreciated. My guess it's some combination of cold and pressure, but I'm not a watchsmith.

Thanks.

H. Frank
Michigan USA

[gsd119]

Rolex Submariner does not fail.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by H.W. Frank

dsio:

(1) It was fully wound that morning, 80 turns+. Not my first or only mechanical, and not a new watch to me, but thanks for the hypothesis anyway.
(2) I offered no theory as to why it did this three times in a row over multiple days, only the accurate report that it did so, along with the opinion that a watch that can't handle a 200' dive isn't much of a diver.
(3) I am experienced down to 300' cold water, and that depth has never damaged any of the lights/gauges etc. that are necessary to make these dives. I can't imagine a reason how depth and/or cold could effect a watch like this, but the facts are the facts.
(4) Re your confusion [Post #10] about my comment on other instruments getting me up safely -- in this kind of diving, we use bottom and depth timers, cut our deco tables and profiles ahead of time, and then follow the stops and gas switches religiously, either stand alone or in conjunction with a trimix computer. Hope that helped clear it up for you.

All: any comments from others who have actually taken their PO's deep appreciated. My guess it's some combination of cold and pressure, but I'm not a watchsmith.

Thanks.

H. Frank
Michigan USA

I give up, just wind it next time or stick to Quartz.

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by dsio

I give up, just wind it next time or stick to Quartz.

[Trev]

My guess it's some combination of cold and pressure,

You're not exactly diving the Mariana Trench here. Pressure is not going to change the shape of your steel watch case at these depths.

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by Trev

You're not exactly diving the Mariana Trench here. Pressure is not going to change the shape of your steel watch case at these depths.

Exactly !

VTC guys buyin you a beer, heck, he's buyin everyone beers - see him in the Bar !

[H.W. Frank]

You're not in the habit of reading something before you respond to it, are you?

Done with this.

[Kapture1]

The PO has been known to stop, and not just on dives. I read somewhere that many PO's had some different type of lube, and it's a known issue. Send it in for service (hopefully under warranty).good luck.

[Trev]

VTC guys buyin you a beer, heck, he's buyin everyone beers - see him in the Bar !

I like how he's taking one for himself and leaving the bucket for me.

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by Trev

I like how he's taking one for himself and leaving the bucket for me.

[DCgator]

Lots of good info on this thread.

[poppydog]

Originally Posted by H.W. Frank

You're not in the habit of reading something before you respond to it, are you?

Done with this.

nice one. If you do find out the problem, though, I for one would be interested. Good luck with it.

[poppydog]

Originally Posted by Kapture1

The PO has been known to stop, and not just on dives. I read somewhere that many PO's had some different type of lube, and it's a known issue. Send it in for service (hopefully under warranty).good luck.

That's my understanding too, but as a theory, it doesn't appear to have much credence in this thread. Still seems the most likely cause in my view, especially in the context of my own experiences.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by poppydog

That's my understanding too, but as a theory, it doesn't appear to have much credence in this thread. Still seems the most likely cause in my view, especially in the context of my own experiences.

Its absolutely true that there have been issues related to the earlier Cal 2500's, and its a well known issue with the movement that has been discussed in the past on many a watch board that people should be aware of. Being a one year old makes that somewhat less likely unless it was sitting on the dealer's shelf for several years as any problems they had were taken care of quite a long time ago.

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by osidak

dsio you sound like a douche - HWFrank stated his watch stopped working on three different dives once a certain criteria was met.

Highly doubt pessure deformed the case causing it to stop (as that would also likely flood the case) but it did stop.

Now I guess if you are a big Omega fan it would be impossible for the watch to be at fault as they are all perfect (right)

Odds are the watch has a defect in the movement or it could simply be the crystal is too close to the second hand and the pressure is enough to make them contact and stop the watch.

Go do something that makes you happy.

pm sent !

[dsio]

dsio you sound like a douche

Thanks for the assessment

- HWFrank stated his watch stopped working on three different dives once a certain criteria was met.

With you so far.

Highly doubt pessure deformed the case causing it to stop (as that would also likely flood the case) but it did stop.

Seams we're still in agreement here oddly enough

Now I guess if you are a big Omega fan it would be impossible for the watch to be at fault as they are all perfect (right)

Correct about being an Omega fan, incorrect about it being impossible for the watch to be at fault, they definitely can have faults, stated this above.

Those faults do have to be within the realm of reasonable possibility though, and thus far I haven't seen any reason to even consider that the problem was diving related, its just too much of a stretch when you think about it carefully.

I'm all for reasonable conclusions, but that is not what I'd been reading, if I was too vigorous in trying to engage in a debate over the circumstances, you can chalk it up to spending too long hearing wild claims, and watching people jump to conclusions based on the narrative they want to put forward in the server management and security industry

I am sorry for that if I caused offense, but I genuinely felt a need to put forward another viewpoint such that this thread didn't get pointed to as a tome of knowledge next time someone had a PO problem, or was considering the purchase of one, and so that it didn't get used as ammunition for someone that felt like bagging another person's purchase.

Odds are the watch has a defect in the movement or it could simply be the crystal is too close to the second hand and the pressure is enough to make them contact and stop the watch.

I doubt very much the possibility of that as well, you have to realize 200 feet is just not that deep.

Go do something that makes you happy.

Sadly, have paperwork to do, but I'll make an effort tomorrow.