5040 new price.

[ukflyboy]

Hi folks,

Can anyone give me a rough idea of what the new price of a 5040 (preferably G or R) was in the UK? I've lusted after one for a while now and having tried on its bigger brother the 5940 at the weekend, I think it might be time to consider actually buying one more seriously! Having seen the new price of that (£57k) I'd be interested to know what the 5040 was going for new?

Grateful for any help you could offer.

[jerseyden]

http://www.tourneau.com/watches/pre-...-VPP02067.html
Not sure of new price in UK but I know Watches and Jewellery of Bond Street sold a used gold one with box and papers just over a year ago for £27,500 and £34K for the platinum.

[PJ S]

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/patekphil...-id4284343.htm

Based on http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=235776 the price would’ve been roughly £55-56K.

Prices are a bit all over the place – so use that if the one linked appeals.

[ukflyboy]

Wow, that is interesting if they were around the £55k mark when new, as I was always of the impression that Patek held their value pretty well, but that is almost half the new price! Maybe the modern day preference for sports watches has killed them a bit?

Guess I will keep looking and hope I bump into my grail watch for the right price; a 5040R with breguet numbers and dial :-)

[ukflyboy]

Wow, that is interesting that they may have gone for around the £55k mark new, I was always under the impression that Pateks held there value very well, but that would indicate that they are selling around half their new value? I wonder if it is because they don't fit into the ever more popular sports watch category?

I guess I may as well keep a good eye out and hope that I stumble across my grail watch; a 5040R with breguet numbers and hands!

[Tony64]

Yep, one of the best bargains around.
A true PC from the company that's probably best know for that grand complication and at almost 50% of retail.

The smaller, some would say classic, size and cushion shape probably contribute to the lower price point at the moment, but IMO this ones a sleeper that's a real classic.

What are you waiting for?!

[ukflyboy]

Well now that you have put it that way, I'm only waiting on one in Rose gold with breguet numbers!

[KarlS]

I think the size makes it less popular and the shape is really growing on me. I feel most the PP PC look like the dials have all fallen into the bottom half the watch and this has some symmetry.

[topcat30093]

Take a look at this one
https://www.chrono24.co.uk/patekphil...-id4510804.htm
And its located in the UK

[ukflyboy]

Unfortunately I'm not a massive fan of the yellow gold.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by ukflyboy

Unfortunately I'm not a massive fan of the yellow gold.

Always a matter of personal preference of course, but there's something special about a classic Patek PC in yellow gold. It just seems - right.

[ukflyboy]

Does anyone have any ideas what sort of ratio of yellow gold v rose gold were produced? Significantly more yellow gold than rose?

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by ukflyboy

Does anyone have any ideas what sort of ratio of yellow gold v rose gold were produced? Significantly more yellow gold than rose?

When both colors are available, yellow gold is always produced in greater numbers. Probably originally started as historically the demand for yellow was greater, and now it seems simply a way to justify a higher price for the rose.

Yellow, rose, and white have the identical gold concentration and production cost, but the manufactured rarity of the rose and white command the premium price.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Tony64

When both colors are available, yellow gold is always produced in greater numbers. Probably originally started as historically the demand for yellow was greater, and now it seems simply a way to justify a higher price for the rose.

Yellow, rose, and white have the identical gold concentration and production cost, but the manufactured rarity of the rose and white command the premium price.

I think white gold conducts a premium especially if platinum or palladium is used versus nickel. In addition many white gold items need to be rhodium plated.

[Dancing Fire]

Lately I have notice that there are a lot more white metal pre-owned dress watches for sale than YG and RG combined. Is white metal dress watches out of favor nowadays?

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by KarlS

I think white gold conducts a premium especially if platinum or palladium is used versus nickel. In addition many white gold items need to be rhodium plated.

Platinum is a separate issue entirely, but with respect to white gold and its palladium or rhodium plating, there can't be more than 3-5 microns of metal plate and I don't think that really accounts for the premium charged. It's an artificially created supply/demand issue much the same way that rose gold commands a premium over yellow. The gold is the same, and the composition of alloys just isn't enough to create the price differences.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Platinum is a separate issue entirely, but with respect to white gold and its palladium or rhodium plating, there can't be more than 3-5 microns of metal plate and I don't think that really accounts for the premium charged. It's an artificially created supply/demand issue much the same way that rose gold commands a premium over yellow. The gold is the same, and the composition of alloys just isn't enough to create the price differences.

I think you realize gold is yellow and thus to make it white you add something irrespective of the gold content!you can add expensive white metals like platinum (was expensive versus gold but not so much) or silver or palladium ......all more expensive than nickel....which is what I am saying. I agree on the rhodium but it's an extra process that costs money and certainly in PP I didn't see the price difference being crippling. A few hundred pounds.

[ukflyboy]

I would very much prefer a 5040R with breguet numbers (5040R-017?) both for the look and the rarity value which will hopefully be reflected in prices in years to come, but I fear that I may end up passing on a number of high quality 5040Js waiting for a watch which is in rather short supply!

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by KarlS

I think you realize gold is yellow and thus to make it white you add something irrespective of the gold content!you can add expensive white metals like platinum (was expensive versus gold but not so much) or silver or palladium ......all more expensive than nickel....which is what I am saying. I agree on the rhodium but it's an extra process that costs money and certainly in PP I didn't see the price difference being crippling. A few hundred pounds.

I understand what you're saying Karl, it's just that when you buy "gold" you're paying for the percentage gold and not really the cost of the alloy, be it copper, nickle, silver, or palladium. I'm not aware of platinum being used as an alloy with white gold.

I just don't believe that there's enough of the alloy metal to make any real difference in the cost of rose and white, over the yellow. Now when it comes to electroplating the rhodium or palladium onto the white gold to give it a shinier appearance, there is an extra cost associated for the time and effort, but i can't imagine that adds more than $50-100 addition in actual cost. Nominal in relation to the upcharge that the consumer pays for a white gold Patek, and still wouldn't explain the upcharge for rose gold which is not plated. The extra cost of the copper in the alloy doesn't come close to the premium charged for rose gold.

Perhaps an expert in the jewelry/metal business will chime in, but i maintain that the premium charged by Patek for the white or rose gold is driven primarily by supply and demand. Colored metals have been the rage in the recent decades and Patek has chosen to produce fewer of its peices in these metals. Thus creating the higher price.

[KarlS]

[QUOTE=Tony64;6790508]I understand what you're saying Karl, it's just that when you buy "gold" you're paying for the percentage gold and not really the cost of the alloy, be it copper, nickle, silver, or palladium. I'm not aware of platinum being used as an alloy with white gold.

I just don't believe that there's enough of the alloy metal to make any real difference in the cost of rose and white, over the yellow. Now when it comes to electroplating the rhodium or palladium onto the white gold to give it a shinier appearance, there is an extra cost associated for the time and effort, but i can't imagine that adds more than $50-100 addition in actual cost. Nominal in relation to the upcharge that the consumer pays for a white gold Patek, and still wouldn't explain the upcharge for rose gold which is not plated. The extra cost of the copper in the alloy doesn't come close to the premium charged for rose gold.

Perhaps an expert in the jewelry/metal business will chime in, but i maintain that the premium charged by Patek for the white or rose gold is driven primarily by supply and demand. Colored metals have been the rage in the recent decades and Patek has chosen to produce fewer of its peices in these metals. Thus creating the higher price.[/QUOTE

Of course there is no correlation between the metal content in a watch and the price! There are loads of threads on that. My argument is that white gold is justifiably more expensive because of the extra work just as platinum is more expensive despite its lower spot price. WG certainly hasn't been a huge premium for me and yes white metals are in fashion and not yellow

[Tony64]

[QUOTE=KarlS;6790526]

Originally Posted by Tony64

I understand what you're saying Karl, it's just that when you buy "gold" you're paying for the percentage gold and not really the cost of the alloy, be it copper, nickle, silver, or palladium. I'm not aware of platinum being used as an alloy with white gold.

I just don't believe that there's enough of the alloy metal to make any real difference in the cost of rose and white, over the yellow. Now when it comes to electroplating the rhodium or palladium onto the white gold to give it a shinier appearance, there is an extra cost associated for the time and effort, but i can't imagine that adds more than $50-100 addition in actual cost. Nominal in relation to the upcharge that the consumer pays for a white gold Patek, and still wouldn't explain the upcharge for rose gold which is not plated. The extra cost of the copper in the alloy doesn't come close to the premium charged for rose gold.

Perhaps an expert in the jewelry/metal business will chime in, but i maintain that the premium charged by Patek for the white or rose gold is driven primarily by supply and demand. Colored metals have been the rage in the recent decades and Patek has chosen to produce fewer of its peices in these metals. Thus creating the higher price.[/QUOTE

Of course there is no correlation between the metal content in a watch and the price! There are loads of threads on that. My argument is that white gold is justifiably more expensive because of the extra work just as platinum is more expensive despite its lower spot price. WG certainly hasn't been a huge premium for me and yes white metals are in fashion and not yellow

Agree, it's just that the extra work is not even remotely proportional to the extra cost!

To the OP's point, the difference in rose v yellow is entirely marketing. There is no added work to produce a rose gold case over yellow. Certainly when considering a watch that retails for over $40k the cost of copper doesn't factor in.

[KarlS]

Patek most are same price. I just checked my price list e.g 5170, 5205 etc don't differentiate. The 5146 dies and WG is 5% more

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Patek most are same price. I just checked my price list e.g 5170, 5205 etc don't differentiate. The 5146 dies and WG is 5% more

I never noticed that before, but that's very interesting!

Looking at the 2012 price list sticky post at the top of this forum, the retail for the 5040 yellow was $72.8k and the white and rose were both $74.8k for the same reference.

Checking my own 3940 on the above list, the yellow is $56.9k while the white and rose are each $59.5k

So using the examples above, the white and rose retail the same. The only "cheaper" option is the far more common yellow gold. The rhodium or palladium plating doesn't appear effect the cost as the unplated rose and the plated white are at the same retail. The only difference in retail is when we go from yellow to either of the colored metals- a difference in alloy composition of the non precious metals. A $2-3k difference for what can't be more than a few dollars worth of copper or zinc or nickel or silver added to the gold mixture seems like a contrived difference IMO, independent of any production cost.

I'm just glad I prefer the natural and classic look of yellow gold and can pocket the savings!

[ukflyboy]

So I have found a nice yellow gold one (I know, not my preferred!) but the price seems reasonable enough from a relatively reputable retailer. What sort of box should the 5040 come with? Most of the ones I can see online some with the square box winder but the one I'm looking at comes with a more traditional wooden box like below. Was the box winder an option or is this watch just being supplied with a random Patek box?

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by ukflyboy

So I have found a nice yellow gold one (I know, not my preferred!) but the price seems reasonable enough from a relatively reputable retailer. What sort of box should the 5040 come with? Most of the ones I can see online some with the square box winder but the one I'm looking at comes with a more traditional wooden box like below. Was the box winder an option or is this watch just being supplied with a random Patek box?

I think that the boxes were paired with the watch by the AD, so there is some variation. Early versions come with the box pictured, which I personally prefer. The later ones I assume all came with a winding box but either way you can always buy a winder separately if you like.

The yellow gold is a great choice for such a classic perpetual calendar. "Timeless", never trendy. I'm sure you'll be happy with your selection. Photos are of course required.