How is it possible?

[77T]

That Rolex can’t seem to keep up with SS model demand, yet Tudor can?

My nearby AD’s Tudor cases look good with many SS models while the Rolex cases show many SS bare spaces.

Sort of makes you wonder that Tudor can execute better...interesting.

BTW, is this the same in your nearby ADs across the globe?


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[beshannon]

Clearly Rolex is placing more emphasis on Tudor production to fill a gap at a lower price point.

Given the worldwide slowing of demand for expensive watches, this makes perfect sense. Rolex should continue to emphasize Tudor.

[rmlovett1]

I’d say simple... supply vs demand...that’s it. Good supply of Tudors available, not as much demand. Whereas...ANY supply of SS sports Rolex that hits the shelves, GREAT DEMAND!

[AK797]

Here the TBB Black was hardly ever in AD windows and the Harrods is way oversubscribed so they do have certain models that have that overdemand, but naturally the Rolex juggernaut has many more models that have been targeted in this unprecedented demand surge of the last year. I think the Rolex, Beckham association will really help them tho and they will seriously challenge Omega in the £2-3K space.

[kauffee]

Originally Posted by 77T

That Rolex can’t seem to keep up with SS model demand, yet Tudor can?

Can’t or won’t?

[77T]

Originally Posted by kauffee

Can’t or won’t?

Ahhh...yes, thanks, I should have added that point as well. Willful action vs simple demand-induced shortage.

If Rolex believed a future downturn in demand or other reason merited this slowdown, wouldn’t they mirror that strategy with their Tudor production?


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[AK797]

Originally Posted by 77T

Ahhh...yes, thanks, I should have added that point as well. Willful action vs simple demand-induced shortage.

If Rolex believed a future downturn in demand or other reason merited this slowdown, wouldn’t they mirror that strategy with their Tudor production?


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Supply has not really changed for either brand, it is demand that has exponentially changed and Rolex as ever are taking their sweet time to adjust to it, coming up to two years and counting over here.

[tyler1980]

I really dont think the scarcity model works with Tudor. Rolex is being positioned in a much higher category and hard to get is a selling point where as with Tudor if you cant get it you buy something else.

One brand has people who will do anything to get a watch and the other brand doesn't. You cant play games when the customer walks away

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Clearly Rolex is placing more emphasis on Tudor production to fill a gap at a lower price point.

Given the worldwide slowing of demand for expensive watches, this makes perfect sense. Rolex should continue to emphasize Tudor.

I see your point, but how many people, shopping for a Rolex only to find they can’t get what they want, will then buy a Tudor as a substitute?

The average person has to be introduced to Tudor, get comfortable with the brand and product line, and it still may not cut it. If all it takes is to offer a lower price point, how are Breitling, TAG and brands in that tier doing?

For the average non-WIS (who, by the way, represent the other 99% of watch purchasers) showing up at dinner or at the golf club with a new Rolex gets a lot of oohs and aahs; a new Breitling or Omega and people say ‘nice watch’. A Tudor will elicit a lot of ‘huh’ and ‘what’s that?’

Nothing to do with the quality of the watches, in high end consumer products brand image is key.

[watchwatcher]

Originally Posted by kauffee

Can’t or won’t?

Bingo. Rolex can do anything they want.

[GerardoG]

My 2 cents:

The watch industry as a whole is having tough times. A quick internet search or reading the articles from well respected media confirms this. Less Basel attendees and a smaller show are just some other signs of real market conditions.

If you look at latest designs (SIHH, Basel, etc) by most watch companies (in the prime level) they are all pushing hard for stainless steel-less pricey watches. The new sweet spot is under $7,500us. That is what people are buying and what really sells. This has two reasons, one is economy and the second is new trends. People in their 30s are spending money on 'experiences' rather than material possessions. They are not buying that Mercedes, they are traveling to a remote location.

Now, please remember we are a different 'breed'; we are not standard customers (more on that some other time). We breathe and live watches with a unique passion that is borderline with madness. But we are a very small percentage of the market. Let's just say that Rolex produces the same number of SS Daytonas as they do, say, OP39 and that all ADs get 20-30 a year. Would this mean that ALL would be sold? Honestly? That might happen for some time, but eventually we would see them in the displays, sitting there, collecting dust. Why? People (not this unique group) is going for cheaper options. Why do you think Rolex, yes ROLEX introduced a no date, 39mm watch? Rolex, the king of watches, the most impressive marketing company, doing a simple, no frills, under 6k watch....sacrilege? No! Market trends!

Tudor just came back to the US, had never left Latin America and is HUGE in Asia. You have no idea how big they are, and the Asian market is far larger than the US. Big time. So it only makes sense to keep producing what people are buying. The same happens with other companies. We had a very interesting presentation with AP in Vegas. Yes, their watches are sold out. If they produced 10 times more, would that mean ALL would be sold? To us, WIS, we say yes, but once again we are an extremely small percentage of customers. Most people will not drop $15-20k for a no complication, three hand watch. As someone said, I can buy 3 or 4 SS Rolex watches for the price of an entry level AP!

Rolex, again, is a marketing genius. They can create desire with the group that is a watch geek...us; yet sell what people really want. Do ADs have empty slots on sports models? Yes. Does that mean they are not selling anything? No. Sales have shifted, that is true, but it is part of a bigger game. The 'green machine' does things for a reason, and we are today just taking a glimpse at theirs. What they have in plans? Only they know. In the meantime, and even with us being mad at them for not producing enough sports models, they keep being THE name. Sports, arts, advertisement....Rolex is in our faces everywhere. Decades later, to the general public, they are THE watch to get.

[Raku]

Sorry to sound a bit harsh but what gave you the idea that Rolex and Tudor watches are made with the same components, materials and by the same people?
They are different companies. It's not like bracelet assembly team A has stopped making Oyster ones and are now making the riveted Black Bay ones. They are probably not even in the same town.
So the comparison about availability is pointless in my opinion.

[rajurama]

Originally Posted by Raku

Sorry to sound a bit harsh but what gave you the idea that Rolex and Tudor watches are made with the same components, materials and by the same people?
They are different companies. It's not like bracelet assembly team A has stopped making Oyster ones and are now making the riveted Black Bay ones. They are probably not even in the same town.
So the comparison about availability is pointless in my opinion.

Tudor is very much part of Rolex and share all its know how research and technology. Its like Lexus and Toyota. As far I know Tudors are made within the same Rolex complex ofcourse its a separate brand with it own identity but not detached from Rolex.

[RazorD]

Some of it is by design I think. How many Tudor GMTs do you think they'll sell while people wait for their name to get called for the Rolex GMT?

[WBA_Daytona]

Tudor will become the Rolex SS option and Rolex will become a PM option. I think this is what Rolex wants to do. Rolex for PM and Tudor for SS.

[Rp930]

I would assume more people want Rolex than Tudor.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Raku

Sorry to sound a bit harsh but what gave you the idea that Rolex and Tudor watches are made with the same components, materials and by the same people?
They are different companies. It's not like bracelet assembly team A has stopped making Oyster ones and are now making the riveted Black Bay ones. They are probably not even in the same town.
So the comparison about availability is pointless in my opinion.

Wrong.

You should read more:

As a sister brand of Rolex, Tudor unsurprisingly has one of the most impressive approaches to supply-chain management that I have seen in a Swiss watch factory (or anywhere, for that matter). Components from various partners and in-house suppliers all make their way to a centralized point at the Geneva HQ. Based on the references that are being assembled on any given day, the requisite components are called up electronically from a cavernous storage area beneath the Rolex/Tudor building. Inventory numbers for components are digitally cataloged and monitored to ensure an uninterrupted flow of parts to make watches.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tu...ure-visit-2017

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-rolex

[Fleetlord]

Tudor is the fighting brand.

Let them duke it out with Tag, Breitling, Omega and the other Swatch Groupies mid tier stuff. That's why Tudor exists.

Those brands are overproduced and priced as such...

Rolex is above all that nonsense and is shifting their market upscale.

They already have the strongest brand in the watch game....and arguably the STRONGEST brand in the realm of consumer goods....but they were being defined by lower cost steel professional watches when there is much more money on the table with TT and PM references...

When the WIS type goes to a dealer looking for a SS Sub and it is out of stock, we are all kinds of upset, go on waiting lists, come on TRF and complain...

Meanwhile, at the AD....normal people with the money (more than you think) stumble into the store and buy pretty much whatever is there.

You see that on Youtube videos all the time. Some dude got some money from being a video game superchampion (?) or some bull$%^ and he wants a Rollie....so of course, these dudes aren't chewing their fingernails off over the lack of SS Subs...he just gets a 2tone one, or a DJ with diamonds...or maybe PM. Watches we don't really don't focus on from a collector standpoint....but the general public doesn't care about all that.

They want a Rolex, because it's the best...and owning one makes them better than the rest. They have always been willing to spend more $$, now Rolex is just kindly steering them that way...

[c41006]

Originally Posted by andrei_sfirloaga

Tudor will become the Rolex SS option and Rolex will become a PM option. I think this is what Rolex wants to do. Rolex for PM and Tudor for SS.

I highly doubt that

[oldman2005]

Originally Posted by 77T

That Rolex can’t seem to keep up with SS model demand, yet Tudor can?

Rolex simply reduces the SS sport production because of their own artificial scarcity market strategy.

As a Rolex sale person, you want to up sale your potential Rolex customer to PM/TT for a bigger profit margin and that's the intention of Rolex , not down sale to a Tudor.

[air_king]

Originally Posted by fleetlord

tudor is the fighting brand.

Let them duke it out with tag, breitling, omega and the other swatch groupies mid tier stuff. That's why tudor exists.

Those brands are overproduced and priced as such...

Rolex is above all that nonsense and is shifting their market upscale.

They already have the strongest brand in the watch game....and arguably the strongest brand in the realm of consumer goods....but they were being defined by lower cost steel professional watches when there is much more money on the table with tt and pm references...

When the wis type goes to a dealer looking for a ss sub and it is out of stock, we are all kinds of upset, go on waiting lists, come on trf and complain...

Meanwhile, at the ad....normal people with the money (more than you think) stumble into the store and buy pretty much whatever is there.

You see that on youtube videos all the time. Some dude got some money from being a video game superchampion (?) or some bull$%^ and he wants a rollie....so of course, these dudes aren't chewing their fingernails off over the lack of ss subs...he just gets a 2tone one, or a dj with diamonds...or maybe pm. Watches we don't really don't focus on from a collector standpoint....but the general public doesn't care about all that.

They want a rolex, because it's the best...and owning one makes them better than the rest. They have always been willing to spend more $$, now rolex is just kindly steering them that way...

+1

[Quailhunter]

I wonder if the proliferation of Rolex models and configurations of those models has overwhelmed their production capabilities.

[Raku]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Wrong.

You should read more:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tu...ure-visit-2017

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-rolex

You have misread what I wrote.
Being a 'sister company' and under the same building (as you kindly highlighted) has nothing to do with the actual manufacturing of the watches because they are not using the same materials and components.
One simple example is that Tudor uses 316L for their cases, while Rolex prefers 904L.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by 77T

That Rolex can’t seem to keep up with SS model demand, yet Tudor can?

My nearby AD’s Tudor cases look good with many SS models while the Rolex cases show many SS bare spaces.

Sort of makes you wonder that Tudor can execute better...interesting.

BTW, is this the same in your nearby ADs across the globe?


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It's not an accident. It's a part of a bigger picture plan. If Rolex wanted to "keep up" with the demand, they would.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Raku

You have misread what I wrote.
Being a 'sister company' and under the same building (as you kindly highlighted) has nothing to do with the actual manufacturing of the watches because they are not using the same materials and components.
One simple example is that Tudor uses 316L for their cases, while Rolex prefers 904L.

you were implying they are far more separate than they are. The coordinated releases of the red/blue GMT's this year shows they are very, very closely connected strategically.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

It's not an accident. It's a part of a bigger picture plan. If Rolex wanted to "keep up" with the demand, they would.

Exactly

And when you look at price points, the Black Bay is a steal with its in house movement.

[Cryten]

Originally Posted by 77T

That Rolex can’t seem to keep up with SS model demand, yet Tudor can?

It's called scarcity marketing. It's an engineered shortage to drive up demand and help justify high prices.

Rolex is the king of scarcity marketing, and most other luxury brands have taken Rolex's cue. Who really thinks a piece of stitched cow skin is worth $100k, and a 3-5 year wait? Hermes thinks it is and they're laughing all the way to the bank. Rolex is no different.

The fact that Tudor can keep up with demand should tell you all you need to know.

[Cru Jones]

Instead of some tectonic shift in the global strategies of Rolex.....

.....maybe it's just that less people want Tudor. And like most watch brands, therefore, there are too many produced Tudors sitting out there.

Outside of TRF, I would guess most people don't know the brand. Maybe they've seen the Beckham ad.

On the other hand, and for better or worse, everyone knows Rolex. And more and more people want one.

I'm not trying to criticize Tudor. They make a fine watch. I just think what's going on with Rolex (and Tudor) stock is much less complicated than what some make it out to be.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Instead of some tectonic shift in the global strategies of Rolex.....

.....maybe it's just that less people want Tudor. And like most watch brands, therefore, there are too many produced Tudors sitting out there.

Outside of TRF, I would guess most people don't know the brand. Maybe they've seen the Beckham ad.

I'm not trying to criticize Tudor. They make a fine watch. I just think what's going on with Rolex (and Tudor) stock is much less complicated than what some make it out to be.

How many people, even TRF hardcore watch nerds like us would wait two years for a tudor on a WL? No one. They do however routinely do this for Rolex references. I think they are being smart. Tudor simply cannot survive unless they meet demand. Rolex is even more popular because they do limit supply. Tudor could tighten supply like Rolex is doing and i think it would backfire.

So its two different strategies and both strategies maximize their brand image in their respective segments.
Budget/Value Luxury and attainable
High Luxury and illusive

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

How many people, even TRF hardcore watch nerds like us would wait two years for a tudor on a WL? No one. They do however routinely do this for Rolex references. I think they are being smart. Tudor simply cannot survive unless they meet demand. Rolex is even more popular because they do limit supply. So its two different strategies for each brand.

That kind of wait time is just for the Daytona. And it's been like that for over a decade.

The shortage of the other SS models is more of a recent blip. And I think it's a temporary blip.