Service case; did Rolex ever re-engrave serial numbers into a 4.4mil?

[harry in montreal]

I was looking at the 5513s on the bay and came upon this one. Seller says that the numbers were re engraved. Seems impossible to me and I find the fonts not quite right? I know that the replacement cases have 4.4mil numbers. Why would these ever be removed?

Do you think this is just a watch with a bad mid case and an impossible theory ?

Im looking for a reasonable 5513 and I like this dial. The insert looks like a later replacement

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960s-Vinta...t/333801057556

[Dan S]

The story seems quite unlikely. And how does the seller know that it is a replacement case? I'd like to hear more about that. And at the risk of offending people who like to remind us that "anything is possible", I will just mention that it would be unusual to see a feet-first dial with a 1.7M serial. One would typically expect meters-first. As you mentioned, the bezel insert is also not correct for that serial, so overall it has the look of a put-together piece IMO. I will also note that this seller lists tons of Rolex parts ... just sayin'.

[swaini3]

Good luck with the seller. I have asked for more info about an item he had for sale. He never responded.

[214270Explorer]

A seller not responding to a simple question tells you all you need to know.
Even if they do not know an answer, they should at least have the courtesy to say so.

[AJMarcus]

Since we’re talking about The Bay, what do folks think about their authenticity guarantee? Particularly on a vintage piece like this? Who actually conducts the authenticating

[bmb15]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Im looking for a reasonable 5513 and I like this dial.

The dial looks horrible, the photo from Ebay ...

Let it go and search for something much better.

[Dan S]

The listing indicates that some hash marks are repainted and that a lume plot is missing, so that is essentially disclosed.

[bmb15]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The listing indicates that some hash marks are repainted and that a lume plot is missing, so that is essentially disclosed.

Yes.
"Case is a Rolex replacement case with re-engraved serial number of original case."
Rolex replacement cases have not the serial number of the "original" case re-engraved. Never heard such a thing.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by bmb15

Yes.
"Case is a Rolex replacement case with re-engraved serial number of original case."
Rolex replacement cases have not the serial number of the "original" case re-engraved. Never heard such a thing.

Agreed, I'm not an expert, but I've certainly not heard of that. At least not by Rolex.

[bmb15]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Agreed, I'm not an expert, but I've certainly not heard of that. At least not by Rolex.

More information one can find here:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=112859

Quote from there:
"All replacement cases known have started with 4,4xxxxx until exhaustion; then they started with 4,7xxxxx.

Replacement cases are unique and will not use a serial number that has been previously used on any production watch, i.e, F, D, Z, etc...

If they do not have a replacement case in stock for a vintage, they will not be able to replace the case.. they will not go out and stamp a new one"

I guess that answers most of OP's questions here?

[TimeToGo]

Manila was known for re-engraving same serial number.

https://vintagetimes.nl/product/1968...-service-case/

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I was looking at the 5513s on the bay and came upon this one. Seller says that the numbers were re engraved. Seems impossible to me and I find the fonts not quite right? I know that the replacement cases have 4.4mil numbers. Why would these ever be removed?

Do you think this is just a watch with a bad mid case and an impossible theory ?

Im looking for a reasonable 5513 and I like this dial. The insert looks like a later replacement

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960s-Vinta...t/333801057556

Hilarious! Cmon. This is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer. And for what? to save $6-7k and get, at the very best, a junky franken watch?

[TimeToGo]

Here is another example from VRM

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...198972#p198972

[harry in montreal]

Gggmt. There there. No need to try to insult me. Try to play nice. I doubt you know as much as I do.

[bmb15]

... Rolex Manila has nothing to do with Rolex SA in Geneva ...

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by bmb15

... Rolex Manila has nothing to do with Rolex SA in Geneva ...

Live and learn and keep quoting half ass information...

[bmb15]

What's your problem man that makes you so agressive in a watch forum? TimeToGo says it all.

[wsfarrell]

Listing gone; seller may have been reading this thread.

"This listing was ended by the seller because there was an error in the listing."

[TimeToGo]

It was relisted..
New small print information..

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

Manila was known for re-engraving same serial number.

https://vintagetimes.nl/product/1968...-service-case/

Apparently this was also occasionally done by the HKG RSC in the early 1970s.

There was an IG post recently showing a RSC service papers with the option of “Dial Refinishing”...

In the 1960s and 70s RSCs around the world had a lot more latitude in the services they could perform.

[Dan S]

Well, it looks like I have learned something new today, that re-engraving may be possible, although unless the seller was actually the person who had the work done, I'm not sure how they would know. Or if there were some paperwork. Otherwise it seems quite speculative.

More importantly, I'm still skeptical about the meters-first dial with 1.7M serial and 67 case-back. The whole combination just gives me a bad enough feeling that I would probably avoid it. Especially since the dial has some damage. I can't help seeing it as an assemblage of parts. Just my opinion for what it's worth, Harry. Didn't expect this thread to get so heated.

[bmb15]

Weird thread, tried to help and got aggressed by somebody, not encouraging population really split 50:50 ...

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

Apparently this was also occasionally done by the HKG RSC in the early 1970s.

There was an IG post recently showing a RSC service papers with the option of “Dial Refinishing”...

In the 1960s and 70s RSCs around the world had a lot more latitude in the services they could perform.

Didn't know about Hong Kong.

Yes, I saw the IG thread, reluming dial and/or hands. WatchKnut started it.

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Well, it looks like I have learned something new today, that re-engraving may be possible, although unless the seller was actually the person who had the work done, I'm not sure how they would know. Or if there were some paperwork. Otherwise it seems quite speculative.

More importantly, I'm still skeptical about the meters-first dial with 1.7M serial and 67 case-back. The whole combination just gives me a bad enough feeling that I would probably avoid it. Especially since the dial has some damage. I can't help seeing it as an assemblage of parts. Just my opinion for what it's worth, Harry. Didn't expect this thread to get so heated.

As with Tiffany dials, the provenance is the plus.
Otherwise, the price should reflect the story..

[harry in montreal]

Thanks guys for the input. I have handled a few service cases before. I’ve also been in a Montreal AD where a lady had her husbands 1675 Pepsi, with a threaded case. Telling her it would be thousands to replace the midcase and likely the caseback. I wanted to barf. Very interesting about the serial engravings. As to the dial on the orig watch, Seller seems like a real piece of work.

[harry in montreal]

It’s my third thread where the discussion got locked or someone got banned. I wasn’t hoping for the hat trick, I swear

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Gggmt. There there. No need to try to insult me. Try to play nice. I doubt you know as much as I do.

My bad Harry — No insult intended! Just seemed like this had little chance of success starting with that case and the questions raised. Good luck with the endeavor!

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

It’s my third thread where the discussion got locked or someone got banned. I wasn’t hoping for the hat trick, I swear

Hang on, who got banned? And the thread wasn’t locked.

[Filipão]

For all of us around, specially for the Tudor enthusiasts, I think we owe Harry in Monterreal a lot.

In every Tudor thread I've read, Harry is ALWAYS there to help with his incommensurable knowledge.

Harry was humble here asking for a Rolex advise and gets beaten up?

Wow.

[harry in montreal]

Hey thanks ! I still think that Johnny Linesiders knows maybe 3 times what I do !

The guy selling the 7924 Tudor got the boot. Then there was a dude this week posting photos of a fake Tudor sub. He was a bit strange too. The thread was moved to watch out and he was banned. Must be the covid