Overpolished crown guards query

[Rolessor82]

Can overpolished crown guards be fixed/reverted?

Attached close up pic.

[springer]

Yes they can be repaired. Some of these welders are pretty good with their trade skills.

[mrs_LA]

I know LAWW will only laser weld enough to reshape/cut the edges than add the full width to restore. You could send photos of different angles to the welders to see if they can fix it

[rushca01]

Take a look at Zimmerman watch repair instagram page.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Rolessor82

Can overpolished crown guards be fixed/reverted?

Attached close up pic.

Just keep it like that. You'll never pay for a toothpick again.

[Rolessor82]

Thanks guys. Wasn't aware of it. Never thought it could be done somehow.

[tropicwatches]

I'm sure Mike at Rolliworks could help.

[btinl]

Wasn’t that one advertised as unpolished?

[RFC]

Originally Posted by btinl

Wasn’t that one advertised as unpolished?

To my dismay, it was expressly advertised as “unpolished” yet sold quickly. Those lugs are clearly uneven to the naked and untrained eye. Condition and price seem unimportant because there’s always one buyer that bites.

[rmagoo57]

Originally Posted by RFC

To my dismay, it was expressly advertised as “unpolished” yet sold quickly. Those lugs are clearly uneven to the naked and untrained eye. Condition and price seem unimportant because there’s always one buyer that bites.

Clearly unpolished. More likey a grinding wheel.

[Kingface66]

Kinda disappointed to see this as advertised, coming from a seller with such a reputation. The case looks absolutely recently recut and polished.

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/gfou

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Kinda disappointed to see this as advertised, coming from a seller with such a reputation. The case looks absolutely recently recut and polished.

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/gfou

Yup. Agreed. Not the first time, but he's also not alone in the dealers' world of creative/misleading/lacking descriptions. He's actually one of the better ones.

Alleged "NOS" Daytona 16520 that just sold also clearly had been polished. Just look at the crown guards. Very nice watch, but definitely not NOS.

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/2oq0

[Traveling]

Originally Posted by Rolessor82

Can overpolished crown guards be fixed/reverted?

Attached close up pic.

I saw all the replies above. With all due respect, not sure who messed up your watch, but it would drive me crazy to look at that crown protector.

My first experience with a Rolex was when my grandmother gave me my grandfather's GMT after he passed (1675/3, Matte nipple dial). I knew it hadn't been serviced recently and took it to a local place.

What a mistake.

The 'watch tech' gouged the dial and then tried to cover it. At that point I drove up to Rolex Beverly Hills (RBH) and dropped it off to be repaired. That was 18 yrs ago now.

At the time, because it was over 30 yrs old, they didn't have matte nipple dials anymore and swapped for a copper nipple, which given the state of the old dial, didn't bother me and I like it (although in life i am more pro-matte than shiny...like the more understated approach).

SOOOO, after a long-winded account, I have a different take on your same situation from my experience:

When I was at RBH to drop it off to get serviced recently, I asked about a case being damaged and whether they had replacements and was told yes, but the serial number would change. Given that they track all the numbers and give you paperwork, if I had too much of a problem with something, I would replace it with a new (old stock) version if available, because for vintage, officially Rolex-papered stuff will only last so long. There are probably only a few years left for certain parts on the vintage models via Rolex. For example, I also asked about dials. There are no more 1675/3/8 nipple dials available from Rolex and the bezel inserts are getting light ( fyi the last time i had it serviced, i asked for and was granted a brown bezel insert, but they are now restricting those to the 1675/8 since they are getting low).

Just food for thought.

Nothing like getting a 50 yr old watch back looking like it was just purchased. I have all the old stuff with all the patina etc, but i hope to be wearing this watch for another 50 years and I would like it to work as designed. My lume on the dial is perfect now and as to the recent service (ouch, prices have gone up), the result speaks for itself IMHO.

[Traveling]

I saw all the replies above. With all due respect, not sure who messed up your watch, but it would drive me crazy to look at that crown protector.

My first experience with a Rolex was when my grandmother gave me my grandfather's GMT after he passed (1675/3, Matte nipple dial). I knew it hadn't been serviced recently and took it to a local place.

What a mistake.

The 'watch tech' gouged the dial and then tried to cover it. At that point I drove up to Rolex Beverly Hills (RBH) and dropped it off to be repaired. That was 18 yrs ago now.

At the time, because it was over 30 yrs old, they didn't have matte nipple dials anymore and swapped for a copper nipple, which given the state of the old dial, didn't bother me and I like it (although in life i am more pro-matte than shiny...like the more understated approach).

SOOOO, after a long-winded account, I have a different take on your same situation from my experience:

When I was at RBH to drop it off to get serviced recently, I asked about a case being damaged and whether they had replacements and was told yes, but the serial number would change. Given that they track all the numbers and give you paperwork, if I had too much of a problem with something, I would replace it with a new )old stock) version if available, because for vintage, officially Rolex-papered stuff will only last so long. There are probably only a few years left for certain parts on the vintage models via Rolex. For example, I also asked about dials. There are no more 1675/3/8 nipple dials available from Rolex and the bezel inserts are getting light ( fyi the last time i had it serviced, i asked for and was granted a brown bezel insert, but they are now restricting those to the 1675/8 since they are getting low).

Just food for thought.

Nothing like getting a 50 yr old watch back looking like it was just purchased. I have all the old stuff with all the patina etc, but i hope to be wearing this watch for another 50 years and I would like it to work as designed. My lume on the dial is perfect and as to the recent service (ouch, prices have gone up), the result speaks for itself IMHO.

[Incroyable12]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Kinda disappointed to see this as advertised, coming from a seller with such a reputation. The case looks absolutely recently recut and polished.

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/gfou

Sold already.

[springer]

The water is getting deeper everyday it seems.

[1watch]

I just looked at the listing pics and do agree the top CG is thinner. That said, the case does have signs of original finish to my eyes, including the satin finish, lug symmetry, original chamfers and backside of case lip. I wouldn’t use the CG as a definitive tell as to whether a case is original or not, as they are often asymmetrical depending on wear over the years. You really need to see in hand to assess with some other factors, but I wouldn’t dismiss this example as incorrectly represented for the above reasons and believe the description is accurate.


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[TuRo]

Let's be honest the 1st Edit' MTRS first dial is 75-85% of the value of this 69 piece - that's why it's sold... the case wear is secondary, and fixable, if such stuff bothers one.

[Rolessor82]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

Let's be honest the 1st Edit' MTRS first dial is 75-85% of the value of this 69 piece - that's why it's sold... the case wear is secondary, and fixable, if such stuff bothers one.

yeah, I think you are right for such an old and scarce piece.

I thing 80% of the value of a watch is the dial.

I have a mk3 mts first, polished, a little too much for my taste but with nice lugs still.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yup. Agreed. Not the first time, but he's also not alone in the dealers' world of creative/misleading/lacking descriptions. He's actually one of the better ones.

Alleged "NOS" Daytona 16520 that just sold also clearly had been polished. Just look at the crown guards. Very nice watch, but definitely not NOS.

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/2oq0

I’m not seeing what you are on this 16520 to consider it different from how it’s represented either.


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[swish77]

Originally Posted by 1watch

I just looked at the listing pics and do agree the top CG is thinner. That said, the case does have signs of original finish to my eyes, including the satin finish, lug symmetry, original chamfers and backside of case lip. I wouldn’t use the CG as a definitive tell as to whether a case is original or not, as they are often asymmetrical depending on wear over the years. You really need to see in hand to assess with some other factors, but I wouldn’t dismiss this example as incorrectly represented for the above reasons and believe the description is accurate.

Respectfully disagree. While it is true that these cases could come from the factory with slightly uneven crown guards, I've never seen lugs that thin and pointy on an allegedly unpolished case in three-plus decades looking at vintage Rolexes. It doesn't stand to reason that this is an unpolished case.

Not picking on Jacek. He's usually great with his listings. This listing was not accurate, IMHO.

Originally Posted by 1watch

I’m not seeing what you are on this 16520 to consider it different from how it’s represented either.


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That so-called NOS Daytona appeared lightly polished, and the crown guards definitely don't have their original factory appearance.

For comparison, here is my (former) 16520 Daytona with a case and crown guards that were unpolished. See how they're slightly squared off at the ends? Big difference compared to the other example. It was a very nice Daytona, but the NOS description was inaccurate, IMHO.

[Rolessor82]

Thanks Aaron, I understand what you say and makes sense.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by swish77

Respectfully disagree. While it is true that these cases could come from the factory with slightly uneven crown guards, I've never seen lugs that thin and pointy on an allegedly unpolished case in three-plus decades looking at vintage Rolexes. It doesn't stand to reason that this is an unpolished case.

Not picking on Jacek. He's usually great with his listings. This listing was not accurate, IMHO.




That so-called NOS Daytona appeared lightly polished, and the crown guards definitely don't have their original factory appearance.

For comparison, here is my (former) 16520 Daytona with a case and crown guards that were unpolished. See how they're slightly squared off at the ends? Big difference compared to the other example. It was a very nice Daytona, but the NOS description was inaccurate, IMHO.

Respect your opinion and also respectfully would disagree regarding evaluation. I’ve seen examples that do have wear on one crown guard that have not been polished by a wheel and have softened from years of wear. The crown guards are among the last aspects I look at after the satin finish, chamfers, lug tips and underside of the case. If one wants to expand the semantics and definition of “polish” to include polished from years of wear, that’s fine. I personally consider that honest wear and more valued than mechanically polished by a buffing wheel. I’ve also seen variations in the finish of crown guards on the same reference . For example, my early ‘66 5513 is unpolished imo. The crown guard geometry changed slightly later that year on the final gilt “Bart” to have a flatter top appearance. If one were to compare unpolished examples of an early ‘66 to a late ‘66 side by side, the crown guards would have a different shape and yet both could potentially be unpolished examples.


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[subx]

Originally Posted by swish77

Respectfully disagree. While it is true that these cases could come from the factory with slightly uneven crown guards, I've never seen lugs that thin and pointy on an allegedly unpolished case in three-plus decades looking at vintage Rolexes. It doesn't stand to reason that this is an unpolished case.

Not picking on Jacek. He's usually great with his listings. This listing was not accurate, IMHO.




That so-called NOS Daytona appeared lightly polished, and the crown guards definitely don't have their original factory appearance.

For comparison, here is my (former) 16520 Daytona with a case and crown guards that were unpolished. See how they're slightly squared off at the ends? Big difference compared to the other example. It was a very nice Daytona, but the NOS description was inaccurate, IMHO.

100% agree with you brother,
having seen true nos 16520's those crown guards are not soft and certainly not NOS ,
the whole case and even band look polished.
I'll add to it that this type of case back sticker can be easily sourced on the net ...

[1watch]

Here’s an example of a very early ‘67 5513 that illustrates the flatter ledge on the CG top, which was a change from the earlier and pre-Bart geometry that was softer on top. This example also shows asymmetrical CGs from years of wear/military use and is what I consider an unpolished case from personal handling.


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[Rolessor82]

Originally Posted by 1watch

Here’s an example of a very early ‘67 5513 that illustrates the flatter ledge on the CG top, which was a change from the earlier and pre-Bart geometry that was softer on top. This example also shows asymmetrical CGs from years of wear/military use and is what I consider an unpolished case from personal handling.


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Oh wow! Interesting..

What it doesn't make sense sure is why would someone polish just the CG. I see your what you mean

[1watch]

For sure…I just shared as an example of one I’ve handled and examined extensively, so am convinced it retains the original finish and is unpolished. Back in that era they did much more hand finishing of cases and that could contribute, along with wear to some aspects not being symmetrical like we see in modern pieces made with CNC machining and much lower tolerances.


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[swish77]

Originally Posted by 1watch

For sure…I just shared as an example of one I’ve handled and examined extensively, so am convinced it retains the original finish and is unpolished. Back in that era they did much more hand finishing of cases and that could contribute, along with wear to some aspects not being symmetrical like we see in modern pieces made with CNC machining and much lower tolerances.


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All fair points, especially about the uneven lugs. However, the OP's example has crown guards that are not only uneven, but has a top crown guard that is about as thin as a toothpick. That's what doesn't make sense if we're to believe that the watch is unpolished.

For comparison, here is my 5512 (3.7 million) that I believe to be unpolished, with slightly uneven crown guards. (Top one is a little fatter.) Unpolished vintage crown guards from the late '60s into the '70s might be uneven, but they should be thick like this.

[Rolessor82]

Originally Posted by swish77

All fair points, especially about the uneven lugs. However, the OP's example has crown guards that are not only uneven, but has a top crown guard that is about as thin as a toothpick. That's what doesn't make sense if we're to believe that the watch is unpolished.

For comparison, here is my 5512 (3.7 million) that I believe to be unpolished, with slightly uneven crown guards. (Top one is a little fatter.) Unpolished vintage crown guards from the late '60s into the '70s might be uneven, but they should be thick like this.

That is a beautiful watch Aaron!

[1watch]

That's a very nice 5512. I do agree the OP example has the appearance in that pic of a very slim top CG. I do believe the rest of the watch shows characteristics in pics of an unpolished case. The degree of difference in the CG thickness appears similar to the example I shared earlier that is unpolished. I think this is a good debate and personally believe from other pic angles it appears to be possibly due to a combo of uneven wear and variance from hand finishing the case in the '60's. I'm basing my opinion on the appearance of the other case aspects that look original and best I can do without seeing it in hand.