Question re: dial of my 16750

[ikanbilisclub]

Hi all, my first post on VRF though I've been silently perusing the wealth of information here. usually more active on OmegaForums. I'm J from Singapore and I collect mostly vintage Gallet/GP/Breitling/Grand Seiko.

Wanted to ask the Rolex GMT experts' opinions on my 16750 dial.

Finally got the chance to take some macros of my 16750 that I acquired a few years back (without much prior knowledge as it was an anniversary gift and was bought from a vintage dealer in Singapore).

Its a 7.4mil serial with a Mark II dial.

My main question re: the dial is whether it has been the tritium lume has been washed off or is it still an original untouched dial?

My observations are:
- to the naked eye the hour markers appear fairly white and smooth with quite clean borders
-not much patina seen on these markers - I surmise its either the dial has been washed off lume or the previous owner wore it so much in the sun thereby 'bleaching' it in the process.
- doesn't have the puffiness/curdliness of lume that I've seen on other 16750s (at least on pics on IG and the net)

Based on the macro pics:
- there are some bumpy bits seen on the markers
- most of the dial appears dead under UV though the GMT hand lights up nicely, there are some small specks of tritium seen on the hour, minute, seconds hand as well as the 5 o clock marker (this is seen better with a loupe)

Appreciate your thoughts on this! Been bugging me for a bit as I learn more of the 1675/16750 references. Cheers!

i realise I can't attach links to larger image files as I'm a first time poster. Not sure if the picture attachments are high-res enough

Thanks all!

[TuRo]

Ok so it's a MK2 (as you thought) 16750 Matt dial last before the gloss white gold at c 8,500,000 SRL no. Some of the mk2s stayed quite white on plots and handsets and don't lume up at all. The hands have some expected tarnishing (which is good) and the dial has the expected black surface texture I look out for - impossible to say without a 50x loupe but I'd say it looks original and fine

[TimeToGo]

.
As mentioned you have the Mk2 dial.
But, while confusing, it is actually the first iteration of the 16750 matte dial with MK-1 been the second before the WG surrounds..

Don't shoot the messanger..

https://www.gmtforum.com/viewtopic.p...0a517eeba8c81e

[swaini3]

Just to add, your GMT and minute hands dont look right. Either aftermarket or cut by someone.

[ikanbilisclub]

thanks pauldavidthorpe and TimeToGo!
its comforting to know that some of the mk2s stayed quite white on plots and handsets, just wanted to make sure it was an original dial.
Yes in my trawling the interwebs have digested the same info from gmtforum as well :)

hi swaini3 - i never realised that about my GMT and minute hands actually. may I check which parts of it look off to you?

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by ikanbilisclub

hi swaini3 - i never realised that about my GMT and minute hands actually. may I check which parts of it look off to you?

The tip of the minute hands are shorter than usual and also look at the tritium/ triangle part of the GMT hand, it does not look centered. Rolex wouldn't do that.

[alwayshere]

IMO, potentially none of the hands are right but could just be angle / photo distortion.

The minute hand is 100% not right - agree with Mo
The GMT could be distortion - in one of the photos, the triangular lume looks centered but in others not
The hour hand looks wrong to me - the tip looks too long
Seconds hand doesn't taper in but maybe just the photos again?

[springer]

Below you will find some GMT 16750 hand set photos. It appears that alwayshere is on to something!

[springer]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

.
As mentioned you have the Mk2 dial.
But, while confusing, it is actually the first iteration of the 16750 matte dial with MK-1 been the second before the WG surrounds..

Don't shoot the messanger..

https://www.gmtforum.com/viewtopic.p...0a517eeba8c81e

TTG pretty much nailed it. The Mark I and Mark II dials are confusing regarding the order that they first appeared. As TTG noted, the Mark II is the first iteration of the matte 16750 dial which was followed by the Mark I dial. I have no idea who was responsible for numbering these dials but they are clearly out of order since 1 does come before 2....right - except in the case of the matte GMT 16750 dials.

[tekno]

I unfortunately owned a washed 16750 (everyone here warned me it was, the dealer said it wasn’t). Yours looks very similar.

If you can get better photos of the plots it would be easier to tell. It’s hard to see in photos, so I am not saying yours is for sure.

Mine had a little bit of lume left, but it was definitely washed at some point. A little bit of lume remained on the surface which gave the appearance that it was original, just pale.

Super white markers scare me unless I can visually see the lume on the dial.

16750 dials have a waffle pattern to the lume, and it doesn’t seem to ever be as thick as say a sub. So it’s hard to tell in non high res photos.

[springer]

Originally Posted by tekno

I unfortunately owned a washed 16750 (everyone here warned me it was, the dealer said it wasn’t). Yours looks very similar.

If you can get better photos of the plots it would be easier to tell. It’s hard to see in photos, so I am not saying yours is for sure.

Mine had a little bit of lume left, but it was definitely washed at some point. A little bit of lume remained on the surface which gave the appearance that it was original, just pale.

Super white markers scare me unless I can visually see the lume on the dial.

16750 dials have a waffle pattern to the lume, and it doesn’t seem to ever be as thick as say a sub. So it’s hard to tell in non high res photos.

I've owned dozens of 16750s with the matte dial, and if any of them had "waffle lume" markers, I sure don't remember ever seeing it on any of them. Maybe you could start a thread with the "waffle lume."

[tekno]

Well then I am wrong. I thought they did. I thought they had a texture to them.


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[ikanbilisclub]

Originally Posted by springer

Below you will find some GMT 16750 hand set photos. It appears that alwayshere is on to something!

thanks for these pics and everyone for your inputs
indeed my 16750 hands looks terribly off after looking at them under a loupe do look off from the points mentioned.

lol came asking about my dial and learn my hands are non-original

maybe i'll have to find some original hands in the near future or live with them.

springer, do you think my dial in question is original without being washed?

on close ups it appears there is texture and bumpiness to the lume plots

[TimeToGo]

.
Difficult to tell if indeed washed with your pictures..
Have you looped it? Do you see any material or plain smooth white paint?

[tekno]

Here are a couple watches with the texture I was describing. I have only handled a couple, Springer has years of handling them. It will be hard to tell in photos.

In the second ad/link Mr Kaplan described the lume as “waffle texture” too.

I thought the surface of the lume was supposed to have a uniform, cloth or gauze like texture. Your photos seem to lack that texture, and look similar to my old watch.

https://hqmilton.com/products/1981-r...-1189987645697
https://omegaforums.net/threads/role...papers.105095/


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[MrChamfers]

It looks to me like the lume has been removed.
When this is done, is the lume scraped off or actually washed with something?

[LateLearner]

Could some of the experts please post a couple macro pics of your 16750 dials? Specifically, showing a raised lume.

I have some of the same questions as the OP, about dials and hand sets.

Thank you in advance.


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[ikanbilisclub]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

.
Difficult to tell if indeed washed with your pictures..
Have you looped it? Do you see any material or plain smooth white paint?

yeah so examining it under my own loupe there appears to be some texture and bumpy bits, does not appear to be a purely smooth white surface.

lets try this picture attached

[ikanbilisclub]

did a quick search on google images and came across a washed dial 16750 that previously sold on tropicalhand.

looks quite similar to mine though i can't make out the texture of the hour plots.

i also noticed the second hand didn't taper too. aftermarket vs service replacement vs were there actually 16750 second hands that didn't taper?

haha more and more questions

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by ikanbilisclub

yeah so examining it under my own loupe there appears to be some texture and bumpy bits, does not appear to be a purely smooth white surface.

lets try this picture attached

It is common to see a thin skin of tritium on these dials. It makes it nearly impossible to make out when under glass and no patina, if all white.

Here is an example but easy to see the thin skin due to the patina. The top marker is a bit darker with more (thicker) tritium than the bottom.
.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by ikanbilisclub

did a quick search on google images and came across a washed dial 16750 that previously sold on tropicalhand.

looks quite similar to mine though i can't make out the texture of the hour plots.

i also noticed the second hand didn't taper too. aftermarket vs service replacement vs were there actually 16750 second hands that didn't taper?

haha more and more questions

That is my watch that I posted earlier. I sold it to Jacek for a fair price. Time2go is right, it’s going to be hard to tell in photos.

It’s not the end of the world, there is value to the watch still. Unfortunately the value is significantly reduced if it is washed.

Once I realized it was washed I didn’t want it anymore. It was a bummer.

[swaini3]

OP,
There appears to be something on your plots. I wouldn't say its washed out as you can see a slight dome in one of the plots, see here:


It's just difficult to see because its the same color as the plot itself, but Im sure you can see it with a loupe. The one in post #18 also has some lume left, you can see from the edges of the circle.
Regarding texture, I believe they do have a waffle or spotted pattern. Here is mine, yes there's a filter, along with the lighting used to exaggerate the effect but its there.

[ikanbilisclub]

Thanks all for the input!

[TuRo]

Agree with Swaini on both points