Thoughts on this 5513 Maxi Mark I

[illiguy]

Very very reputable vintage seller. 5513 Maxi Mark 1. Am told unmolested, unpolished and all original everything. Feedback most appreciated from experts here.












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[swish77]

Looks to be a stunning example. I’d ask for UV photos too.

What’s the beginning of the serial number?

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by swish77

Looks to be a stunning example. I’d ask for UV photos too.

What’s the beginning of the serial number?

6.0 Serial.

Here are some UV photos.






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[Dan S]

The mis-match between the hands and dial in the UV shots is not typical in my experience, but my hands-on experience is obviously limited compared to many.

[beachboy17]

Looks like a piece from Andrew Shear?
Not very knowledgeable but he is.
It's gorgeous.

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[springer]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The mis-match between the hands and dial in the UV shots is not typical in my experience, but my hands-on experience is obviously limited compared to many.

I would agree with Dan. For an "all original" example, i would expect the hands to be the same under UV. It is not uncommon to find many of these 40 or 50-year-old watches with replacement or relumed hands.

[minimalista]

Having used an inexpensive UV flashlight quite a bit, I would say that the variation in lume intensity is a function of where the LED is pointed, not the lume plots.

In my amateur eyes this watch is a great example.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The mis-match between the hands and dial in the UV shots is not typical in my experience, but my hands-on experience is obviously limited compared to many.

Originally Posted by springer

I would agree with Dan. For an "all original" example, i would expect the hands to be the same under UV. It is not uncommon to find many of these 40 or 50-year-old watches with replacement or relumed hands.

Thanks for feedback. From others I respect and I’ve spoken to, original hands are known to and can be expected to have duller or no lume compared to lume on the original dial. Others will have an even match under UV.

The bigger red flag would be if the hands were super bright relative to the dial plots and pip.

Would appreciate hearing from others on this to learn further.

[TuRo]

Perhaps not original or tint merged but nice piece - BUT my only advice if well priced - Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[illiguy]

Appreciate everyone’s feedback. It’s funny because half the folks I trust think hands are original, and the other half do not think they’re original, including watchmakers on both sides. If tritium, which the hands are, ALL say that it’s not a huge deal and it’s a matter of how obsessed with originality one would need the watch to be. And there’s consensus that this remains a top tier example for those, like me, hunting for a Maxi Mark 1.

Super fascinating and learning a lot. Like many things vintage, comes down to price.

[springer]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Thanks for feedback. From others I respect and I’ve spoken to, original hands are known to and can be expected to have duller or no lume compared to lume on the original dial. Others will have an even match under UV.

The bigger red flag would be if the hands were super bright relative to the dial plots and pip.

Would appreciate hearing from others on this to learn further.

Wayne, as I mentioned in another post the other day, the non matching hands or UV lume when compared to the dial markers seems to have a mantra that is growing legs lately. I see this post quite often now. While a minimal mismatch might occur, this is not normally the case. Most do not match for a reason - whether they might have been changed or relumed or stabilized. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having any of this done, expect it should be noted by the seller if he knows this to be the case.

I see nothing wrong with the watch you are looking at, but, because someone said he is a trusted seller doesn't mean he is correct in all his watch assessments.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by springer

Wayne, as I mentioned in another post the other day, the non matching hands or UV lume when compared to the dial markers seems to have a mantra that is growing legs lately. I see this post quite often now. While a minimal mismatch might occur, this is not normally the case. Most do not match for a reason - whether they might have been changed or relumed or stabilized. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having any of this done, expect it should be noted by the seller if he knows this to be the case.

I see nothing wrong with the watch you are looking at, but, because someone said he is a trusted seller doesn't mean he is correct in all his watch assessments.

JP - Thank you for this. As you’ve eloquently stated many times before, the real issue is less the actual act (or lack thereof) to the watch, and more the degree of transparency (or lack thereof) around the same.

And, as you’ve also stated many times before, there are two kinds of vintage watch hands (especially tritium) - those that have been re-lumed, color matched, or stabilized, and those that will be.

As for this particular watch, and as we discussed off forum, the previous owner is one of, if not, the preeminent Submariner collectors in the world. This person has also provided a lot of scholarship on references like this watch. When I inquired this individual as to whether he believed the hands were original to the watch, his statement was, as follows:

“To my knowledge they are [original to the watch]. I owned the watch for a long time. I never messed with the hands. The case and dial and bracelet are great. The faded insert is the cherry on top.”

Ultimately, I’ve done diligence on the watch, as a whole, and am excited to report that I have moved forward with acquiring. The hands under UV are now a footnote and one where many well-respected individuals I look to still seem to differ.

Irrespective of all that, for those experienced or new to the hobby, one thing is for certain: there are fewer and fewer “good guys” out there. JP (Springer) is one of them, and so are folks like Phillip Ridley. Happy Hunting and thank you again.

[swish77]

I’m a OCD stickler about hands, but I wouldn’t let it deter me in this case. It’s a super nice Sub with a great case and insert. And the patina match between the dial and hands is spot on.

As stated above, it could be that the UV light wasn’t pointed directly at the hands when the photos were taken.

Also, they’re obviously not luminova hands, so the only other theory is that the hands have been color-matched with a non-tritium material. (If they were replacement tritium hands you’d still expect them to appear white-ish like the dial under UV.)

If you wanted to explore further, you could examine the hands under a loupe. That might give you your answer. Examining a watch via photos can only take you so far.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by swish77

I’m a OCD stickler about hands, but I wouldn’t let it deter me in this case. It’s a super nice Sub with a great case and insert. And the patina match between the dial and hands is spot on.

As stated above, it could be that the UV light wasn’t pointed directly at the hands when the photos were taken.

Also, they’re obviously not luminova hands, so the only other theory is that the hands have been color-matched with a non-tritium material. (If they were replacement tritium hands you’d still expect them to appear white-ish like the dial under UV.)

If you wanted to explore further, you could examine the hands under a loupe. That might give you your answer. Examining a watch via photos can only take you so far.

Appreciate this, Aaron. Respect your input, as someone with a keen eye for details. Your vintage pieces are incredible, like the 5512, and I know you went to great lengths to ensure you found examples that could meet a high bar.

Cannot wait to handle this one in the metal, literally, as you’re right, photos can only depict so much.

That said, here are a couple more photos of this specific piece. These are in the public domain and attributable to its previous owner.






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[karleone]

Beautiful untouched and sharp 5513!

[Filipão]

I only wish my MK1's case (#6.057.xxx) was that good.

Mine came with Luminova hands that I've had changed to a good T set and am very happy - sorry for the UV picture's lousy quality.

So it's no biggie if your hands are not up to your expectations and you can spare some extra bucks on it.

[Chris75]

Congrats, it's an amazing example.

In my experience during 80's and 90's Rolex used different suppliers for hands and dials, so it's possible (and likely) to find different reactions when stimulated with the UV light.

Being your watch from late 70's maybe this is the case, but even if hands were relumed (or replaced with an earlier / later tritium set) I wouldn't mind at all.

As you correctly stated (quoting the always correct Springer) it's something that is going to happen anyway sooner or later.

And at the end of the day you don't have UV vision!