Tudor 7149 - Dial Help Needed Please

[AndySpence]

Hey folks,

Firstly, thanks a lot for this vast resource of information on the forum, and I'm really pleased to be around so many knowledgable people in this space!

I'm looking at potentially purchasing a Tudor Monte Carlo 7149, with a 7838 bracelet and 382 end links. This is my first 'dip' in the world of vintage watches. I've always loved the Monte Carlo and I'm thankful to be in a position to be able to purchase one. That being said, I'm by no means an expert and I was hoping that I might be able to lean in to the expertise of the forum to help give the watch in question a once over and make sure everything looks OK before I pull the trigger. EDIT: I realise that I've titles this thread 'Dial help' but actually, just help across the entire watch is what I'm looking for, but I was thinking about the dial specifically at the time.

There are a few things that I'm not certain about, which I was hoping to get some clarity on: The numbers around the 60 min track look to be quite thick (I've found another that looks similar, but the majority seem to be a lot thinner text). In fact, the Subdial number font also looks a little thick, and perhaps all around a little sloppy? Outside of that, the hour and minute hands look slightly different from others I've seen in that, they're one solid block of lume from tip to tip, rather than there being lume on the end of the hands. I've seen similar on other sites, but it doesn't seem like the norm. Please see below for a range of pictures of the watch in question:

eb26e50c-660a-41a7-83d2-09bd5d4ee2e2.jpeg

54e1adf4-bada-41e2-a793-46bd3a789bd5.jpeg

c5df8011-31d1-429c-85fc-3e31efe20739.jpeg

12bce04a-81d8-4c38-8f4c-844d8c5467ca.jpeg

4ae524d4-622a-438c-abdc-f87eb1031983.jpeg

Anyway, apologies for my rambling and I hope I've managed to explain myself adequately. Any advice, information or insight in to what I'm looking at would be greatly appreciated! I should also mention that I do have some other photos if there's anything specific you'd like to see!

Many thanks and all the best,
Andy

[Dan S]

Who is the seller, Andy? An established online seller? Brick and mortar store? etc. Have you seen the watch in-person, or are these seller photos?

[AndySpence]

Hi Dan, thanks a lot for getting back to me!

These folks are established, both online and brick and mortar. I don't think they're necessarily specialists in vintage watches, however. I've not seen the watch in person but I would be purchasing face to face in their store. These photos were sent to me by the seller, but I would be seeing the watch in hand before purchasing.

Thank you!

[rootbeer7]

Having owned a badly relumed (although original dial) this one looks good to me. Definitely make sure an expert checks out the movement if you’re unsure of the sellers knowledge, as being a Valjoux it is possible that parts get swapped out. Does this come from a business seller or privately?

[TuRo]

There are two types of dial on BOTH grey and blue on the 7149/59/69.

One which has the 30-45 on right-hand sub dial same colour as underneath - like this :

Tudor Montecarlo
£21,136
https://chrono24.app/tudor/chronogra...GB&SETCURR=GBP

And one that has that segment greyed out (like the one you are looking at) like this :

Tudor Montecarlo
£15,800
https://chrono24.app/tudor/tudor-mon...GB&SETCURR=GBP

They two dials have minutely different fonts / the hands lume lengths vary too, I think I've seen.

Do you have the engravings both lug ends per chance Andy?

[AndySpence]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

Having owned a badly relumed (although original dial) this one looks good to me. Definitely make sure an expert checks out the movement if you’re unsure of the sellers knowledge, as being a Valjoux it is possible that parts get swapped out. Does this come from a business seller or privately?

Hi Rootbeer, thanks a lot for the info here, and appreciate your insight. I'll certainly get this appraised by an expert for confirmation that everything looks as it should. I can confirm that this watch is from a business, but they're not necessarily Tudor specialists.

[AndySpence]

This is fantastic, thank you TuRo! I had no idea there were dial variances like this. Do you happen to know what the dial represent, for example a Mk1 vs Mk2, early or late models, or a service dial perhaps? These changes definitely seem to align with the nuances of the watch I'm looking at so appreciate your input here!

Also, I've not yet seen the serial/engravings on the inside of the case behind the lug ends.. Is there something I should be looking for?

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by AndySpence

This is fantastic, thank you TuRo! I had no idea there were dial variances like this. Do you happen to know what the dial represent, for example a Mk1 vs Mk2, early or late models, or a service dial perhaps? These changes definitely seem to align with the nuances of the watch I'm looking at so appreciate your input here!

Also, I've not yet seen the serial/engravings on the inside of the case behind the lug ends.. Is there something I should be looking for?

I don’t know which came first… but the ‘greyed out’ are found usually on 1971-1974 on many Montecarlos of the 49/59/69. I don’t think they are service dials because many are a bit scruffy.

Ref engravings - just want to make sure they are correct eg curved 7 on 7149 and 45 degree slash 7149/0 , and serial number looks correct/good too.

Indeed worth checking the case back engravings too.

Also suggest you go on C24 and click on all three 7149/59/69 (about 30 for sale in total same dial and valjoux fitted to all 3) and get any listings that have the movt/calibre exposed in the photos and forensically check against the one you are looking at especially if you filter on the same year of production.

You’ll also be able to check the pushers…many for sale have service ones (with a ring around) and you can compare the one you are looking at with original pushers (no ring around) on other models for sale.

Ps sure it was a typo but it should have a 7836 bracelet, not 7838 of course ;-)

Rgds P

[AndySpence]

Yeah I did wonder about the dials.. Scruffy is a good way of putting it - thick text, some sloppy paint of the subdials... The good old days!

Thanks for the intel on the engravings too, I've asked the seller to send some photos, so hopefully we'll have those tomorrow to cross reference. I've been told it's a 1972, so I think the serial should be a 770xxx, right?

I'll be sure to cross examine shots of the movement - you mention looking against watches of the same year. Were there changes to the movement throughout the years of production that could lead to any inconsistency, or is it more a case of making sure it wasn't swapped out at all?

the pushers look original from what I can see, but I did not know about the ring being service issued, so thank you for that information. The seller did mention it was a 1 owner watch, but no provenance to back that up, and it's a naked sale so don't have any service history unfortunately.

The seller did make explicit reference of a 7838 bracelent, but asked them to double check that and send some photos. I've seen conflicting threads online regarding 7838 bracelets as I wasn't sure myself but can't really find much (any) information about them outside of other people asking on this forum back in 2015. Do you think that could be a red flag?

Many thanks!
Andy

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by TuRo

I don’t know which came first… but the ‘greyed out’ are found usually on 1971-1974 on many Montecarlos of the 49/59/69. I don’t think they are service dials because many are a bit scruffy.

Ref engravings - just want to make sure they are correct eg curved 7 on 7149 and 45 degree slash 7149/0 , and serial number looks correct/good too.

Indeed worth checking the case back engravings too.

Also suggest you go on C24 and click on all three 7149/59/69 (about 30 for sale in total same dial and valjoux fitted to all 3) and get any listings that have the movt/calibre exposed in the photos and forensically check against the one you are looking at especially if you filter on the same year of production.

You’ll also be able to check the pushers…many for sale have service ones (with a ring around) and you can compare the one you are looking at with original pushers (no ring around) on other models for sale.

Ps sure it was a typo but it should have a 7836 bracelet, not 7838 of course ;-)

Rgds P

Absolutely solid advice.

[harry in montreal]

Out of curiousity… model 7032 cane with grey or black dials. Does the black dial have only one printing variation? They all seem to have greyed out registers. I know that there are only a handful around but was curious on your thoughts. Harry

[TuRo]

As far as I'm aware Harry, only one dial type for each colour on the 7031/32 'Homeplate', unlike the 7149/59/69 Monte Carlo.

Black dial - grey subdials and quadrant and outer ring.

Grey dial - black subdials and quadrant and outer ring.

B Rgds P

[harry in montreal]

Thank you Paul!

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by AndySpence

Yeah I did wonder about the dials.. Scruffy is a good way of putting it - thick text, some sloppy paint of the subdials... The good old days!

Thanks for the intel on the engravings too, I've asked the seller to send some photos, so hopefully we'll have those tomorrow to cross reference. I've been told it's a 1972, so I think the serial should be a 770xxx, right?

I'll be sure to cross examine shots of the movement - you mention looking against watches of the same year. Were there changes to the movement throughout the years of production that could lead to any inconsistency, or is it more a case of making sure it wasn't swapped out at all?

the pushers look original from what I can see, but I did not know about the ring being service issued, so thank you for that information. The seller did mention it was a 1 owner watch, but no provenance to back that up, and it's a naked sale so don't have any service history unfortunately.

The seller did make explicit reference of a 7838 bracelent, but asked them to double check that and send some photos. I've seen conflicting threads online regarding 7838 bracelets as I wasn't sure myself but can't really find much (any) information about them outside of other people asking on this forum back in 2015. Do you think that could be a red flag?

Many thanks!
Andy

Not sure if Valjoux 234 changed over the 6 or so yrs tbh, but a yr specific parusal always safer imho. Be interesting to see that 7838 stamp the 6 is quite hooked.!
765-795,000 very circa 72 btw as you say.

[AndySpence]

Brill, thanks TuRo. Hopefully get some more info today and yeah as you say, will be interesting on the bracelet. Could just be a mis-read of a 6. I've found two references to a 7838 bracelet - one on a Tudor Sub from Bonhams sold in 2018, and as mentioned, somebody asking about a 7838 bracelet on this forum. Worryingly, I couldn't find any reference of this on anything Rolex related, and looking at bracelet codes, nothing comes up on there either.

Somebody mentioned on TRF from an old thread a 7838 bracelet is fake. Not sure where to go from here if that is indeed the case!

EDIT: I called Rolex Service Centre and they said they did not know of a bracelet reference 7838 in their system, only the 7836 or 78380, but hat's not to say it does not exist as their archive of vintage Tudor is not definitive.

All the best,
Andy

[AndySpence]

Bit of an update on my side - the store confirmed the bracelet was actually a 7836 bracelet... problem solved! The end links are also 358 and not 382 as previously mentioned. Not sure if that changes anything but here we are.

I've also got a picture of the 7149 engraving, bit of a quick snap but would be great to get your thoughts:

cba65b8a-132b-41b0-b389-61cac88a5e57.jpeg
Screenshot 2023-07-12 at 16.40.20.png

Many thanks!
Andy

[TuRo]

Blurry photos, but looking good from initial photos.

[AndySpence]

Thanks a lot, Paul!

Lastly, this is being offered at £14.5, do you think that's a fair asking price for this watch (naked), all being well? Understand if that's not something you're able to advise on, or if it goes against forum rules.


Many thanks!

[TuRo]

Going rate 'retail shop' is c £14-15k.

[TuRo]

Just wondering Andy - Did you get any further info/buy it ? Rgds P

[AndySpence]

Hey Paul,

Thanks a lot for following up and sorry it's taken me a while to get back to this!

I did end up going ahead and purchasing - picked the watch up today and really pleased with it - dial looks to be in really good condition, runs well and bracelet is great. I realised that 358 end links don't seem to fit the watch particularly well, so I think I'm going to have to look at correcting that, unless 358 ELs is indeed correct for the watch (from what I've seen, perhaps not).

Thanks again for checking in!

All the best
Andy

[TuRo]

Great stuff

[dhknola]

Congrats OP, lotta watch there; killer find. I hope to get so lucky on something similar while prices are trending lower.

[AndySpence]

Thanks a lot both, I'm really happy with it! The dial looks great and it all looks like it's been well looked after. Looking forward to getting a lot of wear out of it.

dhknola - I hope you manage to get what you're looking for - out of interest, what do you have your eye on? I feel like these are only going 1 way ;)

[dhknola]

Hey Andy: I am just looking for the next 'deal'; I don't have my eye on anything in particular at the moment, just hunting but don't feel like I am 'shooting' (buying) much in last few years.