Certificate of Origin does not match watch. Off by 1 digit

[pk552502]

Hi All, I wanted to get some opinions on this predicament I'm in. I purchased a Patek 3802 about a month ago and I was very happy with the purchase and the watch is in great condition. I have another post with detailed pictures if you're curious to see the watch which came as a full set.

It was running slow, which was expected and I sent the watch to the Patek service center in New York for a routine service. The movement number and case number on their service estimate does not match the certificate of origin and it is off by just one digit. The service estimate shows 3xxxx96/4xxxx32 while the certificate of origin shows 3xxxx97/4xxxx33. I asked Patek to confirm they wrote the numbers down properly on the estimate and they had their watchmaker open the watch again and double check. They confirmed the numbers on the watch do not match the certificate of origin and it is off by just that last digit.

Since it's only off by one digit I think there must have been a mix up at the time the watch was originally sold. I do like the watch and it's in great condition. However, the fact the certificate of origin does not match the watch significantly affects the value.

I contacted the seller and asked for a partial refund and I'm waiting to hear back. Honestly, I think I would prefer to have a partial refund and keep the watch. Patek confirmed the watch is genuine so there's no issues with the watch itself.

The Ebay authentication card does match the certificate but I'm assuming they just copied the number from the listing and didn't actually check it against the watch. I have to believe Patek over the Ebay authentication.

I'm trying to come to the best solution with the seller and I have not moved forward with the service yet until I hear back from them.

I'm curious how the seller will respond. I think the value is affected by about $1k. Any thoughts from the group?

[ChetBaker]

If Patek issues the wrong certificate of origin when selling the watch couldnt they exceptionally issue the correct certificate?

[pk552502]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

If Patek issues the wrong certificate of origin when selling the watch couldnt they exceptionally issue the correct certificate?

The rep had asked me to send some pictures of the certificate when I first noticed the discrepancy. Then a couple days later they confirmed the numbers don't match. On the phone I asked if it was possible the wrong certificate was issued upon original purchase and could they investigate that possibility further. She basically said the distributor is responsible for issuing the certificate and they wouldn't investigate further since I wasn't the original purchaser. She never indicated anything looked off about the certificate.

I'll probably just keep the watch and hope to receive a partial refund for my troubles. It stinks though to have a full set with an asterisk.

[HL65]

It happened to me once many years ago. I ended up getting a full refund from the seller. I would not be ok with that myself knowing that I had the wrong cert. After that, I always double checked them prior to purchase.

[cascavel]

If your watch is over 10 years old you can order an Extract from the Archives. Assuming you want to keep the watch. You may need pics of the movement and case numbers.

[1William]

Very interesting. I will be following this to see what the seller offers.

[Chiboy]

I'm not someone who cares if my name is on the card, or who would pay a big premium to buy a watch from an AD. But I would be uncomfortable with a Patek that had a certificate of origin with different numbers than the watch, and I don't think $1,000 would matter. Assuming I just paid pretty big money for a Patek Phillippe I really wanted, I would not want there to be any "issues" like this. Plus, if you ever wanted to sell it, you would have to find someone like yourself who would be ok with this issue if they got a small price concession.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by cascavel

If your watch is over 10 years old you can order an Extract from the Archives. Assuming you want to keep the watch. You may need pics of the movement and case numbers.

Interesting, I didn’t know that

[pk552502]

Originally Posted by cascavel

If your watch is over 10 years old you can order an Extract from the Archives. Assuming you want to keep the watch. You may need pics of the movement and case numbers.

Hi, yes, the extract is nice to have but isn't in the same league as the certificate of origin in my opinion.

[pk552502]

Hi All, I appreciate the opinions. I have a couple updates I wanted to share.

1) I contacted Stoll & Co. that does the Ebay Authentication. I give them credit that you can actually talk to someone live there very easily and they were helpful. Although the card they issued matched the certificate of origin, the actual work order the authenticator filled out matched the case and agreed to what Patek noted. So the card they issued was wrong. I'm glad they were up front about it and admitted their mistake.

2) The seller got back with me. He informed me he's the original owner of the watch and the full set I purchased is exactly how he got it on the day of purchase. He mentioned that Patek has a service where they will replace the certificate in cases such as these since it was a mistake on their part and they charge $250 for that service but likely the fee would be waived. He offered a refund of the $250 if I get charged.

[pk552502]

In the end, I decided to move forward with the service and keep the watch for the following reasons:

- I can tell the watch was well cared for and I don't have any doubts the full kit I have is how it was delivered on the day of purchase.
- It's a watch I bought directly from the original owner.
- The watch is in great condition and I'd be hard pressed to find another one in similar condition.
- I paid $9,200 for the watch, which I consider a fair price even with the certificate issue.
- I already went through the hassle of shipping the watch to NY, got an estimate, and it's not worth the hassle to me to raise a huge fuss over this. Patek also charges $135 if you send in the watch and decline the service.
- You take a little bit of a risk on an ebay auction. I've bought a few watches on Ebay auctions and they are some of the best deals i've had.
- Sometimes you have to pay for a learning experience.

I do plan to reach out to Geneve and run the issue by them and see if they will accommodate some sort of resolution.

[Vasco]

You seem to have the matter in hand. I hope you can enjoy your beautiful Calatrava :)

[tsekh]

Originally Posted by pk552502

The rep had asked me to send some pictures of the certificate when I first noticed the discrepancy. Then a couple days later they confirmed the numbers don't match. On the phone I asked if it was possible the wrong certificate was issued upon original purchase and could they investigate that possibility further. She basically said the distributor is responsible for issuing the certificate and they wouldn't investigate further since I wasn't the original purchaser. She never indicated anything looked off about the certificate.

I'll probably just keep the watch and hope to receive a partial refund for my troubles. It stinks though to have a full set with an asterisk.

The certificate (with the wrong serial number) should list the AD from which the original owner purchase the watch. Can you contact them and see if they can work with Patek to obtain/reissue the correct certificate?

[Calatrava r]

It looks like it was just a "special occasion" watch and thus in great condition and a full set. It was smart to keep it.

[inadeje]

I think I would pursue a full refund for misrepresentation of the article purchased. If you paid via credit card and they won’t budge then it would be easy.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by tsekh

The certificate (with the wrong serial number) should list the AD from which the original owner purchase the watch. Can you contact them and see if they can work with Patek to obtain/reissue the correct certificate?

This. But it’s an old watch. I doubt they’re able to do it.

It’d bug me but what the hey. OP nice work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pk552502]

To be honest, the number mismatch is bothering me less and less. I told the seller I'm not seeking a partial refund from him since I think I got a reasonable deal and I don't want to nickel and dime him.

Since the number is only off by 1 digit, I'm comfortable the certificate originally came with the watch and there just happened to be a mix up at the time of original sale.

I do plan to contact Patek in Switzerland to see if there's any option they can accommodate. I'll probably initiate that inquiry after I get the watch back from the service center.

A hypothetical scenario crossed my mind for fun: If they were to issue a new certificate, but require me to surrender the old one, I wonder what I would do. I might keep the original since that's how it came and it's part of the story of the watch. I know it's not the same, but it's kind of like an error dial or something that in the long run, you would want to keep the original. I say that half joking half not.

[pk552502]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

It looks like it was just a "special occasion" watch and thus in great condition and a full set. It was smart to keep it.

I appreciate your sentiment. That basically sums up where I landed.

[FrançoisCzapek]

Congratulations on the purchase. This is a great example of buy the seller.