Rolex SC not telling me what’s going on with my watch

[Daily_Driver]

I purchased a watch from Chrono24 from a very reputable seller. I’ve worn it for 6 months and it’s been great, keeping very good time. It’s ‘Neo-vintage’ (30 years old) with no service history or paperwork, so despite it keeping good time, decided to send it in for a service via my AD.

I was expecting a call within a week or two with a full breakdown of the recommended work required. Instead it was my AD requesting originak paperwork, receipts, and anything showing the serial number from when I purchased the watch. I explained that the watch came without paperwork but I shared the Chrono24 receipt showing that the watch was purchased by me in good faith. I pressed my AD for detail and they said that the Service Centre are being particularly cagey and had just requested any further info. My AD said - trying to not worry me - that everything should be ok - but that this only really happens when either 1/ the serial number is illegible (not the case here - clearly stamped between the lugs) or 2/ the watch has flagged something in the system - perhaps lost/stolen/counterfeit. But told to hang tight.

I went straight to the watch register database and paid for a certificate that came back as “no match” for “Theft/Loss/Fraud” - a good start.

I contacted my Chrono24 seller who was disappointed, apologetic, but understanding, and has agreed to provide a refund so long as I have something in writing describing the situation. (I will have incurred ~£1k import tax).

However. 2 months have since passed and I’ve been chasing my AD who have been in turn chasing the UK SC who have said that they have been in contact with HQ in Geneva. They cannot provide any more information. I presume an investigation is ongoing?

At this point I just want my watch back - forget the service. I’m nearly 100% sure it’s not counterfeit - it’s been inspected by my AD in the past who initially told me the movement was a good 4-5 years away from needing a service, but I requested one anyway. There’s always the chance then that it could have been flagged as lost/stolen within Rolex’s systems, but I’m at the point of feeling helpless, frustrated with the lack of transparency and comms from Rolex.

Until Rolex provide me with evidence that the watch is lost/stolen/fraudulent, as far as I’m concerned it’s my property. To be clear, Rolex themselves have not once said the reason why it’s being held - both me (and my AD to an extent) are hypothesising. I’m half tempted to bypass my AD and give the SC a call and request either my watch back or something in writing.

Wondering if any of you guys have had anything similar happen, or if anyone had any idea what they think could be going on here.

Thanks in advance

[ratty]

Try ringing Rolex customer service.

[WatchTimes]

Here in the US if you send your watch in through your AD they only correspond with the AD from what I understand. I have always sent mine in to RSC myself so not sure how that works here or what their policy is in the UK.
Try giving the RSC a call and see what they say.
Good luck and keep us updated.

[Duke Nukem]

You can try contacting the RSC directly in the UK. In the states, if the watch is sent via AD to the RSC, then the RSC will only release details direct to the AD. That's why it's highly recommend to send or drop off directly. Not sure if they follow the same procedure there.

In your situation, I don't believe this is a case of a fake component in the the watch. If that was the case, you would've had an answer now.

I have a hunch this is a situation where the watch in question was reported as stolen at some point in its lifetime. That's why you/your AD aren't getting any firm details. Rolex is most likely reaching out to the party who filed the stolen report to let them know the watch is in their possession and is awaiting supporting docs from the filer. All RSCs are interconnected now and that includes the stolen watch registry. You'll most likely be contacted in due course from their in-house legal counsel telling you how to proceed. That's why they asked you for the receipt/any original docs showing serial as they're trying to determine if you obtained the watch legitimately.

TRF member 77T is familiar with the process.

[RichM]

Originally Posted by WatchTimes

Here in the US if you send your watch in through your AD they only correspond with the AD from what I understand. I have always sent mine in to RSC myself so not sure how that works here or what their policy is in the UK.
Try giving the RSC a call and see what they say.
Good luck and keep us updated.

I can attest to that. It happened to me. The RSC would not talk to me about MY watch. I never used an AD for that purpose again.

Good luck OP.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Sorry to hear, OP. Once again it rings true...this is why we buy pieces with paperwork only. I can guarantee your watch was stolen at some point. You won't be receiving it back. I am glad, however, to hear that the chrono seller is willing to re-imburse you. Have you reached out to C24 staff as well to document the correspondence between the seller and yourself with regard to a "refund"? I'm not sure what leverage/recourse or policy C24 has over the seller "legally" if he decides to "not" refund you down the line.

Sorry again, mate. Hope this works out well for you! I was burned once many years ago on a 16710 that turned out to have been stolen from an AD in a brazen and violent robbery. I had no idea ofc as it was sold to me as a "no-papers" example. In the end, I was out about 11K USD... no watch; no money. Good luck

[bradyb]

Darn, if it was keeping good time and running well then there was really no need to send it in. My opinion of course.

[Davidt]

Unfortunately this isn’t really a positive comparison to your situation but I dropped off one of my watches at my UK AD in Jan to go to RSC and received a full breakdown of mandatory and optional work within around 2 weeks so it’s unlikely to be a backlog or volume related issue.

Hope you get some positive news soon.

[Old Expat Beast]

Maybe report the RSC to their local police for withholding your property. Someone in Hong Kong got their watch back that way a few years ago, IIRC.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Seems to be an uptick of this with “reputable” sellers lately.

[Harry-57]

A bit late now but FWIW and as already stated, by default I go directly to the RSC. St James and West Malling are both approachable and good with communication. On the occasions when it has either been necessary or more convenient to go via my AD the RSC will have nothing to do with me. This makes sense. Three way exchanges have a potential to produce errors and static.

In my limited experience the UK RSCs can be pedantic when it comes to paperwork. The last time I was at St James Square they turned away a Sub Date without proof of ownership. I don't know the exact circumstances so there could have been more to it. I produced my green card and copy of the AD sales receipt and it went without a hitch.

[omar-rye]

On the bright side, it’s better to find this out now than five years down the road, when you might have no recourse.

[Muhammad556]

I recommend that you contact the service centre directly. Sometimes, bypassing the middleman can give you a clearer answer. Simply explain your situation and ask for an update or return of your watch. Hopefully, you'll get your watch back soon!

[joli160]

You are not the RSC customer so they will not tell you anything.
So far nobody said it was stolen.

Your AD is able to get info from the RSC, all they have to do is make a call.
The story that the watch is sent to Geneva for investigation is non sense.
No reason at all to do so. How sure are you that the AD really pushed the RSC ?

Just demand that they return the watch forthwith.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Maybe report the RSC to their local police for withholding your property. Someone in Hong Kong got their watch back that way a few years ago, IIRC.

That’s crazy …

[brandrea]

Welcome to the forum OP, sorry it’s under these circumstances. Good luck and keep us posted

[Rolex1982]

I believe joli160 is right, how sure are you that the AD is really trying to get more info? They are the ones who most definitely will get it when they make a call.

[Triggerfish]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Maybe report the RSC to their local police for withholding your property. Someone in Hong Kong got their watch back hat way a few years ago, IIRC.

THIS.

They can't just hold your property with no input. This intentional holding without explanation is theft IMO.

[travisb]

Sorry to hear. That wouldn't sit well with me at all.
Stay in touch with the Chrono24 seller. It's good that they are working with you. I hope you get some answers soon.

[aehaas]

Perhaps it was lost in transit to the RSC and your AD is the one holding back of that info. They are hoping the shipper finds it because the AD under insured it?

Ali

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by brandrea

That’s crazy …

It's not the RSC's property, and they're not a law-enforcement agency, so they're not entitled to hold the OPs watch, especially with no communication with the OP, surely?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It's not the RSC's property, and they're not a law-enforcement agency, so they're not entitled to hold the OPs watch, especially with no communication with the OP, surely?

Yes I get it … I meant just crazy one would have to go to those lengths


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[Justso]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

Sorry to hear, OP. Once again it rings true...this is why we buy pieces with paperwork only. I can guarantee your watch was stolen at some point. You won't be receiving it back.

Sadly for the OP, I am 99.9% sure this is correct. This story is too familiar. This very thing happened to a person I know who took his watch to an AD for service who sent it to the RSC and they discovered it stolen. After a couple of months, the resolution was that he did not get the watch back.

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

I am glad, however, to hear that the chrono seller is willing to re-imburse you.

Same. At least this service happened now and not several years from now where the OP was long outside any expressed or implied guarantee or warranty and could not be refunded the money.

Originally Posted by Duke Nukem

I have a hunch this is a situation where the watch in question was reported as stolen at some point in its lifetime. That's why you/your AD aren't getting any firm details. Rolex is most likely reaching out to the party who filed the stolen report to let them know the watch is in their possession and is awaiting supporting docs from the filer.

Guaranteed. That is the one and the only reason why they would be holding the watch in limbo like it is.

Originally Posted by Duke Nukem

All RSCs are interconnected now and that includes the stolen watch registry. You'll most likely be contacted in due course from their in-house legal counsel telling you how to proceed. That's why they asked you for the receipt/any original docs showing serial as they're trying to determine if you obtained the watch legitimately.

At this point, the only thing the OP can hope for is that the original filer of the stolen serial # is either unable to be located or does not have the supporting documentation (police report) to validate the theft to Rolex and prove that they were the original owner of the watch. That's why it is most likely taking so long. Rolex probably will extend a 90 day period to do the legal due diligence before rendering a decision. I suspect the OP will hear a final resolution to this matter shortly.

[1William]

All speculation at this point beyond the time it is taking. I would get on the phone with the RSC and explain the situation and ask for help. They will at least let you know the policy on inquires. I would think it is the AD that should be pushing. Keep us posted.

[Justso]

Originally Posted by 1William

All speculation at this point beyond the time it is taking.

Agreed, but where there's smoke, there's fire.

Originally Posted by 1William

I would get on the phone with the RSC and explain the situation and ask for help. They will at least let you know the policy on inquires. I would think it is the AD that should be pushing. Keep us posted.

Agreed 100% with you on this. At this stage of the game, the AD should really be escalating this as a zealous advocate for their customer. RSC is not going to talk to the OP, even if he calls them and tries explaining it. The RSC's "customer" is the AD, not the OP. The AD needs to step it up here.

[KatGirl]

First, welcome to the forum, and I’m so sorry you are going through this craziness. Reading between the lines, I’m guessing the watch was stolen, perhaps more than 20 years ago. If that’s the case, Rolex could be having a hard time tracking down the rightful owner, who could have moved or even passed away. The lack of any clear info is the key here. If they can’t locate the rightful owner, they will most probably return it to you. Just conjecture, of course, but seems the most likely explanation.

Kat


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[inadeje]

It’s all conjecture OP. I wish you luck getting your property back.

[ChronoZach]

Op, sorry to hear about this situation and welcome to TRF, this is why I use an independent high end watchmaker and only send to RSC when it is absolutely necessary. When I do? I contact them and send it myself.My approach would be to visit the AD and have them contact RSC in front of me because they sent it in. I don’t know the rules or laws in the UK. But the AD is the client and you’re the sub client of the AD. Again, this where it gets complicated. What does the service agreement say? Terms? Whatever is in black and white is what goes. I’m sure it’s the same in the UK.

Here’s what I think is going on? 1) the watch was lost in transit and they trying to find it?
2) There is something in the history loss, theft or serial issue something does not match.
Why they have not come clean with what is going on? Is beyond me.

The good thing is that the seller is working with you, just don’t let it sit too long, people change their minds and this is a loss for the seller too. If he is in another country your legal options are few, Finances? A bad month of business? So get this done as soon as you can. That way your loss is minimized.

Hope it all goes well, mate

[77T]

Originally Posted by Daily_Driver

...snip...
Until Rolex provide me with evidence that the watch is lost/stolen/fraudulent, as far as I’m concerned it’s my property. To be clear, Rolex themselves have not once said the reason why it’s being held - both me (and my AD to an extent) are hypothesising. I’m half tempted to bypass my AD and give the SC a call and request either my watch back or something in writing.

Wondering if any of you guys have had anything similar happen, or if anyone had any idea what they think could be going on here.

Thanks in advance

Each RSC situation has its nuances and the narrative you have shared has a few twists.

To narrow down the possibilities, I have a quick question: Does the AD have your email address or postal address on file?

Reason for asking will be clear below...

There are so many possibilities:
The RSC might have lost the watch, or severely damaged it (that could explain them contacting Geneva); the watch is a fake; or the watch is a stolen one.

I tend to agree with some here that the watch was on the Rolex global theft list. And it may involve an overseas theft victim. The rest of this is meant to be helpful and I hope I am wrong because the path ahead could take months more...

If I was to guess, your watch is either at the King's Hill RSC, or in the Tonbridge Property Office at the Kent and Essex Support Services building.

If you choose to file a police claim personally as Adam suggested, an enquiry can be sent to enquiries@kent.police.uk If it is at the London RSC, use the MPA addy: enquiries@mpa.gov.uk
Personally, you might want to get an attorney.

The standard RSC procedure for a stolen watch situation is to quickly notify each party via written communication. So you, or the AD, should have something in email or a letter via Royal Mail. The long delay is puzzling.
(If AD had your email addy, have you checked your spam folder?)

The file/letter will say something different for each party (the submitter vs. the theft victim)

My case was as the theft victim.

Dear Mr. _____________:

We are writing to notify you that the above-referenced watch, which you reported stolen on or about ________________ (the “Watch”), has been submitted to a Rolex affiliate located abroad for service.

The Watch is currently in the possession of ROLEX UK, 1 Jubilee Way, Kings Hill, West Malling ME19 4NR, United Kingdom. The telephone number is +44 1732 752400.

The Watch has been submitted for service in a foreign country and, therefore, the question of ownership must be resolved in accordance with the applicable law of that jurisdiction. If you are interested in pursuing a claim to the Watch, we encourage you to immediately contact the police department with which you filed your police report. The police department should coordinate the return of the watch with local law enforcement in Kings Hill, United Kingdom. Please also consider retaining counsel in Kings Hill, United Kingdom to assist you with the recovery of the Watch.

Please note that our affiliate can only hold the Watch for a limited time, and if you fail to take action, the Watch may be released and the Watch’s serial number may be removed from Rolex’s missing watch database.

We hope we have been of assistance in this matter, and you may contact us if you have any questions. Thank you.

From the date of seizure until I got my watch back was several months so these things can take time.


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[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by 77T

Each RSC situation has its nuances and the narrative you have shared has a few twists.

To narrow down the possibilities, I have a quick question: Does the AD have your email address or postal address on file?

Reason for asking will be clear below...

There are so many possibilities:
The RSC might have lost the watch, or severely damaged it (that could explain them contacting Geneva); the watch is a fake; or the watch is a stolen one.

I tend to agree with some here that the watch was on the Rolex global theft list. And it may involve an overseas theft victim. The rest of this is meant to be helpful and I hope I am wrong because the path ahead could take months more...

If I was to guess, your watch is either at the King's Hill RSC, or in the Tonbridge Property Office at the Kent and Essex Support Services building.

If you choose to file a police claim personally as Adam suggested, an enquiry can be sent to enquiries@kent.police.uk If it is at the London RSC, use the MPA addy: enquiries@mpa.gov.uk
Personally, you might want to get an attorney.

The standard RSC procedure for a stolen watch situation is to quickly notify each party via written communication. So you, or the AD, should have something in email or a letter via Royal Mail. The long delay is puzzling.
(If AD had your email addy, have you checked your spam folder?)

The file/letter will say something different for each party (the submitter vs. the theft victim)

My case was as the theft victim.

Dear Mr. _____________:

We are writing to notify you that the above-referenced watch, which you reported stolen on or about ________________ (the “Watch”), has been submitted to a Rolex affiliate located abroad for service.

The Watch is currently in the possession of ROLEX UK, 1 Jubilee Way, Kings Hill, West Malling ME19 4NR, United Kingdom. The telephone number is +44 1732 752400.

The Watch has been submitted for service in a foreign country and, therefore, the question of ownership must be resolved in accordance with the applicable law of that jurisdiction. If you are interested in pursuing a claim to the Watch, we encourage you to immediately contact the police department with which you filed your police report. The police department should coordinate the return of the watch with local law enforcement in Kings Hill, United Kingdom. Please also consider retaining counsel in Kings Hill, United Kingdom to assist you with the recovery of the Watch.

Please note that our affiliate can only hold the Watch for a limited time, and if you fail to take action, the Watch may be released and the Watch’s serial number may be removed from Rolex’s missing watch database.

We hope we have been of assistance in this matter, and you may contact us if you have any questions. Thank you.

From the date of seizure until I got my watch back was several months so these things can take time.


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Excellent! Very valuable info here, thanks Paul!