Imperfection on 1675 gilt - would you buy ?

[PGTO3406]

Hello,
I found a nice 1675 gilt from 66, however a small flaw
/scratch appears on the dial.
See picture below - would u consider it as acceptable or not?
Price around 30k usd with original papers, rest of the watch is in good conditions from my point of view.
Thank in advance for your time
Cheers,
https://ibb.co/4KvYtcp

[LJubel328]

That would bother me too much. Buy the best example you can afford, and if that’s it, pass or wait till you can spend the extra $$$ for a superior example.

[mmmmp]

For that price, fair or not, if you really want it - buy it.

My concern would be dails with scratches indicate the watch has obviously been opened at least once. (I should hope so for a reference of this vintage!) If the watchmaker scratched the dial during service, can we trust whatever other work he performed?

Yes, I'm being paranoid but $30K is a lotta cake. Good luck, hope you grab it.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

[stmoore]

Depends on the rest of the watch.
If that’s the only issue, I could live with it.
I’d suggest to stop looking for perfection on these gilt watches ... or you might just find it. A watch that looks perfect often isn’t. Learn to appreciate a flaw or two.

So. It depends on the rest of the watch. There isn’t enough information here to properly answer your question.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

That would bother me too much. Buy the best example you can afford, and if that’s it, pass or wait till you can spend the extra $$$ for a superior example.

Blemishes drive me crazy, too, but given the size of this scratch, the only way you’re gonna see it is with a macro shot like this one or under a loupe. To the naked eye, with 1675 print being so small, there’s no way you’re gonna see it.

[springer]

I've never seen a perfect 50 to 60-year-old watch, close but not perfect - and they are few and far in between. Gilt watches always seem to have some type of issue or imperfection. Based on some pretty ratty dials that I have seen on vintage gilt, that tiny dial mark on this GMT is insignificant for me. It would be nice to see some additional photos of the complete watch. The price seems very, very reasonable for a gilt GMT with the original warranty paper if everything is original and the dial/hands haven't been relumed or re-lacquered.

[Tom1675]

Not a deal breaker at all. I concur with the the others on this thread that can be lived with and the fact that its in the text makes it less conspicuous as well. Definitely need more pics though, one of the entire dial from a couple of angles will be helpful to see this imperfection for what it is.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Blemishes drive me crazy, too, but given the size of this scratch, the only way you’re gonna see it is with a macro shot like this one or under a loupe. To the naked eye, with 1675 print being so small, there’s no way you’re gonna see it.

Valid point. I’d worry that when he goes to sell he’d run in to other collectors looking under a loop and pointing to the flaw. I realize a watch that is nearly 60 years old will have its blemishes, especially being gilt, but vintage collectors are VERY picky and are quick to point out blemishes. I see the argument that you aren’t looking at it under a loop while wearing and appreciating the watch, but he runs the risk of this blemish coming up in the negotiations when he decides to sell the watch (if he ever plans to).

That being said, additional photos of the dial, lugs, bracelet, etc. would help. Initial thoughts of the price point is its within the current market value. If it has full papers, and he can negotiate down some on price, then it’ll potentially be a good purchase.

[indianmachine]

I'd do it if the watch is in otherwise superb condition. Those lume plots looks amazingly puffy.

[1665fan]

If it’s perfect it’s probably redone....that wouldn’t bother me..

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

Valid point. I’d worry that when he goes to sell he’d run in to other collectors looking under a loop and pointing to the flaw. I realize a watch that is nearly 60 years old will have its blemishes, especially being gilt, but vintage collectors are VERY picky and are quick to point out blemishes. I see the argument that you aren’t looking at it under a loop while wearing and appreciating the watch, but he runs the risk of this blemish coming up in the negotiations when he decides to sell the watch (if he ever plans to).

That being said, additional photos of the dial, lugs, bracelet, etc. would help. Initial thoughts of the price point is its within the current market value. If it has full papers, and he can negotiate down some on price, then it’ll potentially be a good purchase.

Absolutely fair point. And, for better or worse, that's how watches are evaluated when selling/buying.

[Andjwhite]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

That would bother me too much. Buy the best example you can afford, and if that’s it, pass or wait till you can spend the extra $$$ for a superior example.

Agree 100% or learn the hard way

[PGTO3406]

Thank you for all those feedbacks and opinions. Warmly appreciated.
Here extra pictures of the 1675:

https://ibb.co/J3ZdSfF
https://ibb.co/c1xRRT2
https://ibb.co/brnWxrX
https://ibb.co/K6PPfvF
https://ibb.co/0mBff8N
https://ibb.co/tKPBcNB

[winst]

I can’t see that mark on the L in some of the other pictures - are you sure the dial is marked as opposed to it being a scratch / imperfection in the crystal?

[PGTO3406]

Originally Posted by winst

I can’t see that mark on the L in some of the other pictures - are you sure the dial is marked as opposed to it being a scratch / imperfection in the crystal?

Hi Winst, the last picture among the ones listed above also has it. Strangely does not appear on the others yes.

[Tom1675]

Overall looks fine to me but one thing these pics don't convey is the glossyness of the dial. The seller can send a short video of the dial at an angle accentuating the gloss that would be the only other thing I need to see... not sure if case is polished or rebuilt. Also a pic of the papers unless you know and are sure they're correct.

[PGTO3406]

Originally Posted by Tom1675

Overall looks fine to me but one thing these pics don't convey is the glossyness of the dial. The seller can send a short video of the dial at an angle accentuating the gloss that would be the only other thing I need to see... not sure if case is polished or rebuilt. Also a pic of the papers unless you know and are sure they're correct.

Thanks Tom for feedback,
See extra pictures here & video - what do you think?
(video password = 1234)



https://ibb.co/2F18dF4
https://ibb.co/KW82jjd
https://ibb.co/Lr0KH95
https://ibb.co/ZK9NrRJ
https://ibb.co/TcT9GFK
https://ibb.co/Bs0vZ4Z

[LJubel328]

I don’t see a link to a video. From the additional photos the case appears to have been recut. Last pic also shows the dial is in immaculate condition, almost too good.

I am no expert in the vintage department though and will let the more experience members chime in.

[PGTO3406]

Thank you for your comment,
The video in above post appears to be embed,
Here again the link : vimeo.com/503680450
(pass : 1234)

I c/c again all the pictures URL for reference, cannot edit initial post.

https://ibb.co/2F18dF4
https://ibb.co/KW82jjd
https://ibb.co/Lr0KH95
https://ibb.co/ZK9NrRJ
https://ibb.co/TcT9GFK
https://ibb.co/Bs0vZ4Z
https://ibb.co/J3ZdSfF
https://ibb.co/c1xRRT2
https://ibb.co/brnWxrX
https://ibb.co/K6PPfvF
https://ibb.co/0mBff8N
https://ibb.co/tKPBcNB

[springer]

The watch appears quite nice, but I find the bracelet is quite interesting. It is a compilation of USA and Swiss bracelet parts put together to form a Jubilee bracelet. Additionally, the GMTs had 50 end links.

The added paperwork is a nice bonus. I would recommend that you have someone that is familiar with these vintage gilts to ensure that it is correct - many of these vintage gilts have had the dials re-laquered or touched up and/or the hands re-lumed.

[JustinK]

I do not believe the rotor is correct for this watch. Tough to judge the dial as you need to look at different angles to see bubbles, scratches or imperfections.

The lume on this watch looks perfect as do the hands, could be redone.

Take Springers advice before you drop 30K and have an expert look at it.

[swish77]

Regardless of tiny dial blemishes that may or may not be an issue, I would only buy ANY gilt-dial Rolex if I could examine it in person. And if that's impossible, I'd make sure the seller has a no-questions-asked return policy.

I know that we often need to buy vintage watches from online photos/videos, especially nowadays, but gilt dials are so important to see in person, at angles, different lighting conditions, under a loupe, UV, etc...

I know you could make that argument for any high-priced vintage Rolex, but even more so with gilt dials, which are especially susceptible to age-related issues.

[springer]

Originally Posted by swish77

Regardless of tiny dial blemishes that may or may not be an issue, I would only buy ANY gilt-dial Rolex if I could examine it in person. And if that's impossible, I'd make sure the seller has a no-questions-asked return policy.

I know that we often need to buy vintage watches from online photos/videos, especially nowadays, but gilt dials are so important to see in person, at angles, different lighting conditions, under a loupe, UV, etc...

I know you could make that argument for any high-priced vintage Rolex, but even more so with gilt dials, which are especially susceptible to age-related issues.

Good advice Aaron, but many if not most gilt buyers are not you or knowledgeable as you might be. While examining a watch in person is great advice, if you don't know what to look for, you might think a great looking watch is wonderful and later find out that the hands, dial or case has been "worked on" in the past and might not be to your liking.

It is always nice to personally view a potential purchase, but is also important to have someone knowledgeable check a potential purchase for anything you might have overlooked.

[PGTO3406]

Thank you all for those feedbacks and sharing your point of view.
So far the major interrogation I got from here and other place appears to be about the dial and following points: condition of the laquer, redone or not ?
I'm definitively NOT a gilt expert.

I'm still in negotiation with the seller/shop, deal is in process. Not taken any decision yet.
The shop has a 14 days return policy hopefully.

Eventually I might bring the watch to several shops to get an expertise, in Tokyo we have numerous experimented places with long history selling vintage Rolex.
It might be interesting to obtain their evaluation and eventually to know how much they would purchase it.
If something too negative comes up, sending back the watch to the seller. 14 days should be enough to do this.

Have a great day and thank you again
I'll keep you posted for sure

[lupus66]

Scratch wouldnt bother me. Dial is top case redone hands probly redone rotor too early papers i dont care. Imho.

[PGTO3406]

Hello all,
Finally ordered and received the watch, so far so good except one point which drawn my attention: tritium. See here some picture with UV: http://ibb.co/44CGm1x
It glows for 2-3 secondes then index + hands light disappear at same speed.
What do you think?
Cheers,