Zenith Royal Oak?

[mac_135]

I want to like this but I can't say I am impressed. Can't decide if it reminds me more of a Royal Oak or a Tissot PRX (as someone mentioned in the Hodinkee comments, lol). What do you think?

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ze...nly-el-primero

[rolexfanforlife]

First the Daytona and now this. I’m losing respect for Zenith

[Neom]

It's completely different from the RO imo. It's just another SS sports watch.

[El-Duderino]

Yeah, I guess I’m not getting RO out of this. I see what they are trying to do with the dial and the old Zenith logo and it would look fine but that offset seconds subdial just ruins it for me. If you’re going for an “angular” aesthetic, then why add that to the design?

Swing and a miss for me. I’d take the Zenith Defy Classic over this any day.

[alllexandru]

I like it but cannot understand why 10th of a second on such watch.
Also why not in 38/39mm?

[JR16]

Whatever it is, it looks awkward to me


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[kunlun]

The Zenith Defy this is based on originated in 1969, 3 years before the Royal Oak.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by kunlun

The Zenith Defy this is based on originated in 1969, 3 years before the Royal Oak.

Shhhh. Don't upset people that think every sport watch in history is a derivative of Genta design.

Every night, I go into the woods, surround myself with candles and sacrifice lesser sport watches so Genta can bless me with a good sports watch harvest next year.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by rolexfanforlife

First the Daytona and now this. I’m losing respect for Zenith

Next up a Nautilus knock-off and the hat trick is complete

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by kunlun

The Zenith Defy this is based on originated in 1969, 3 years before the Royal Oak.

Sure but it didn’t look like that. Same with the laureato that GP made to look much more 5711 like relative to the original.

Show me a 1969 defy that bears strong resemblance to this release relative to an RO.

I may be wrong but the examples I’ve seen are a stretch.

[Brooswane]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Sure but it didn’t look like that. Same with the laureato that GP made to look much more 5711 like relative to the original.

Show me a 1969 defy that bears strong resemblance to this release relative to an RO.

I may be wrong but the examples I’ve seen are a stretch.

If they’d copied the bracelet and put screws in the bezel or something, it would be a much more valid criticism. As it stands though, Zeniths polygonal case shape came before APs, and I don’t think AP can claim to have invented a textured dial, certainly not one filled with Zenith stars. The ten second subdial is the cherry on top to give them full deniability of being a RO “ripoff”.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by kunlun

The Zenith Defy this is based on originated in 1969, 3 years before the Royal Oak.

I presume you don't mean this one:

[WatchEater666]

I like the normal defy chrono shape a lot. This looks kind of boring/derivative even if it might not be.

[_speedmaster_]

Honestly though, why does everyone get so worked up? Unless it’s a direct copy, who cares? The selective outrage in this community is comical.

Do you bemoan when companies not named Breguet use Breguet hands and dial/guilloche designs? Do we lambast AP for copying Hublot with the integrated rubber strap? Do you criticize Rolex for taking Blancpain’s unidirectional dive bezel idea? How about Kari using Urban Jurgensen’s exact teardrop lug design and closely mirroring their cases?

Seems like it’s okay to take liberties with design when it’s not against established popular brands.

[raclaims]

Reminds me a bit of the last gen 3 hander from vacheron in the overseas line

I like it...and I like zenith...and I like that people can actually buy the watches!

[mongrelnomoad]

1. It looks far more like a GP Laureato than a Royal Oak.

2. I rather like it, and with a real hi-beat movement, the only real competition is Grand Seiko.

[DoraTheExplorerII]

It's actually quite nice but I'm just so bored

[JPBlackBay]

Do you get all your opinions from Hodinkee comments?

[mac_135]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Honestly though, why does everyone get so worked up? Unless it’s a direct copy, who cares? The selective outrage in this community is comical.

Do you bemoan when companies not named Breguet use Breguet hands and dial/guilloche designs? Do we lambast AP for copying Hublot with the integrated rubber strap? Do you criticize Rolex for taking Blancpain’s unidirectional dive bezel idea? How about Kari using Urban Jurgensen’s exact teardrop lug design and closely mirroring their cases?

Seems like it’s okay to take liberties with design when it’s not against established popular brands.

No outrage here, just interested in opinions on this piece.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Honestly though, why does everyone get so worked up? Unless it’s a direct copy, who cares? The selective outrage in this community is comical.

Do you bemoan when companies not named Breguet use Breguet hands and dial/guilloche designs? Do we lambast AP for copying Hublot with the integrated rubber strap? Do you criticize Rolex for taking Blancpain’s unidirectional dive bezel idea? How about Kari using Urban Jurgensen’s exact teardrop lug design and closely mirroring their cases?

Seems like it’s okay to take liberties with design when it’s not against established popular brands.

With regards to Rolex no because they had the zerographe and turnograph decades prior which while not a diving tool had the aesthetic and general function.

It annoys me because its lazy and I don’t think gentas designs are worth imitating. What annoys me the most is when people pretend that it’s not what they are doing. They are deliberately making an RO homage here just like they did with the Daytona recently. I like some of their other defy line just not this crap.

I think when you copy an entire general aesthetic it goes beyond paying homage with hands, Guilloche or a unidirectional bezel function.

[mac_135]

Originally Posted by JPBlackBay

Do you get all your opinions from Hodinkee comments?

Just the one about the Tissot PRX.. But come on, there is some resemblance there!

I felt the exact same about the Zenith Chronomaster Sport when it came out. Sure, there is Daytona related history but it's pretty obvious it was released as an alternative to the impossible to purchase Daytona. Nice piece, but personally it would have me wishing for a Daytona every time I looked at it.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by GB-man

With regards to Rolex no because they had the zerographe and turnograph decades prior which while not a diving tool had the aesthetic and general function.

It annoys me because its lazy and I don’t think gentas designs are worth imitating. What annoys me the most is when people pretend that it’s not what they are doing. They are deliberately making an RO homage here just like they did with the Daytona recently. I like some of their other defy line just not this crap.

I think when you copy an entire general aesthetic it goes beyond paying homage with hands, Guilloche or a unidirectional bezel function.

I personally don’t love anything Genta (except his mustache game) so maybe that’s why I have my stance. All you Genta fanboys cast your stones now.

But I absolutely throw in stealing dial and hand designs in the same league as stealing a case design. Those are brand calling cards as much as cases and bracelets.

I just don’t really see this as that closely resembling a RO, at least not enough to draw ire. I do think the Chronomaster Sport is a much worse offender.

I agree it’s lazy, but this stuff just doesn’t brother me in the slightest unless it’s essentially a direct copy. If styling queues are taken, I don’t find any harm. Brands borrow and steal from each other all the time. Right or wrong, they’ve all done it.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I personally don’t love anything Genta (except his mustache game) so maybe that’s why I have my stance. All you Genta fanboys cast your stones now.

I think you're taking the criticism of the Zenith release the wrong way. I don't want them to out-Genta Genta, but to offer something fresh and unique. I think it's hard to argue that the Defy Skyline, Laureato, Alpine Eagle etc really bring a new perspective on the steel sports watch with integrated bracelet genre (other than availability). The Octo Finissimo is an example of venturing down a different path that should be applauded.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I think you're taking the criticism of the Zenith release the wrong way. I don't want them to out-Genta Genta, but to offer something fresh and unique. I think it's hard to argue that the Defy Skyline, Laureato, Alpine Eagle etc really bring a new perspective on the steel sports watch with integrated bracelet genre (other than availability). The Octo Finissimo is an example of venturing down a different path that should be applauded.

I get it. But not everything can be fresh and unique; Zenith do as good of a job as any in terms of venturing out into the deep end of design every now and then.

People on this forum scrutinize every detail of new sport watches, looking to see if there is any hint of Genta in there. Why? Do we do the same thing when a company releases a new dress watch? Do we say, I can't believe Kari Voutilanen is using essentially the same lugs and case as Urban Jurgensen? No. There are only so many ways to make an integrated sports watch, of course there will be derivatives of the first one ever made. It's not a big deal in the slightest.

Also, there is a very real risk in terms of creating something completely new. You mention the Octo Finissimo, but the Parmigiani Tonda, Urban Jurgensen One, Lang & Heyne Hektor have all been highly criticized on this forum, despite their completely new/fresh take on a sports watch design. For the most part, people say they want unique and fresh designs, but they rarely vote with their wallet. I can get a discount on the Octo and the three other sports watches I mentioned. I would have to sacrifice my first born to get a nautilus or royal oak, despite those watches being relatively untouched for decades. People say they want change, but that's just lip service. They just want to have the ability to see unique things, but at the end of the day stand in line for vanilla offerings.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I think you're taking the criticism of the Zenith release the wrong way. I don't want them to out-Genta Genta, but to offer something fresh and unique. I think it's hard to argue that the Defy Skyline, Laureato, Alpine Eagle etc really bring a new perspective on the steel sports watch with integrated bracelet genre (other than availability). The Octo Finissimo is an example of venturing down a different path that should be applauded.

Yes that’s what I’m saying. I don’t get angry at this sort of thing I rather scoff at them for being so uninspired.

I don’t like the Antarctic either honestly.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I get it. But not everything can be fresh and unique; Zenith do as good of a job as any in terms of venturing out into the deep end of design every now and then.

People on this forum scrutinize every detail of new sport watches, looking to see if there is any hint of Genta in there. Why? Do we do the same thing when a company releases a new dress watch? Do we say, I can't believe Kari Voutilanen is using essentially the same lugs and case as Urban Jurgensen? No. There are only so many ways to make an integrated sports watch, of course there will be derivatives of the first one ever made. It's not a big deal in the slightest.

Also, there is a very real risk in terms of creating something completely new. You mention the Octo Finissimo, but the Parmigiani Tonda, Urban Jurgensen One, Lang & Heyne Hektor have all been highly criticized on this forum, despite their completely new/fresh take on a sports watch design. For the most part, people say they want unique and fresh designs, but they rarely vote with their wallet. I can get a discount on the Octo and the three other sports watches I mentioned. I would have to sacrifice my first born to get a nautilus or royal oak, despite those watches being relatively untouched for decades. People say they want change, but that's just lip service. They just want to have the ability to see unique things, but at the end of the day stand in line for vanilla offerings.

UJ one would have been better without the bracelet which feels more than a bit nautilus inspired.

LH isn’t too shabby but I question the keyhole.

The new pf tonda is interesting but I have a hard time getting attached to a brand owned by a drug company’s heirs lol

Moser and Bulgari are the few that have been successful at trying to enter this field. FPJ just didn’t even bother trying to create 70s inspired watch which is greatly preferred by me. I feel the same as you that gentas designs are wildly overrated.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by GB-man

UJ one would have been better without the bracelet which feels more than a bit nautilus inspired.

LH isn’t too shabby but I question the keyhole.

The new pf tonda is interesting but I have a hard time getting attached to a brand owned by a drug company’s heirs lol

Moser and Bulgari are the few that have been successful at trying to enter this field. FPJ just didn’t even bother trying to create 70s inspired watch which is greatly preferred by me. I feel the same as you that gentas designs are wildly overrated.

This is going to sound really insane, but I just equate Parmigiani's name with Parmigiano reggiano (a popular Italian cheese) and it ruins it for me. I swear, it's the dumbest thing ever but I can't uncouple the two. It greatly diminishes a great watchmaker for the smallest reason imaginable, but I can't help it.

I'm not into sport watches, so I'm just playing devil's advocate (like always) as I don't plan on buying any of the watches mentioned here. BUT, I definitely agree Moser and Bulgari knocked it out of the park. I'll throw in Czapek too.

I actually sympathize with these companies that feel compelled to make a sports watch because they need the sales. I wish companies like Urban Jurgensen and Lang & Heyne just focused their resources on continuing to make great dress watches. I just wish people bought them.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by rolexfanforlife

First the Daytona and now this. I’m losing respect for Zenith

I think at this point, they are becoming the luxury homage brand, but on the other hand, isn’t that a good thing? The only reason brands like Rolex and AP can indulge in the scarcity games they engage in is the lack of irreverent competitors.

Now I don’t think in the immediate term, such available alternatives will detract from the appeal of watches that are so popular and valuable by virtue of their not being available. But over time, a certain dilutive effect may finally get all this mania to jump the shark as the „look“ becomes more boring with any new effort to iterate on or derive from it.

People going crazy about a Gevril homage was about the last we heard of vintage Daytonas, which have faded from the broader public‘s attention and stagnated in value since. We can’t be too far from that happening with the likes of the Royal Oak and the Nautilus.

In fact, the core brands discontinuing their offerings in this space and the smarter minds of the market moving to independents like FPJ are a pretty good indication of this happening.

And before you know it, Zenith will have found an obscure old reference of theirs to reissue that conveniently just happens to look like a Resonance…

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

This is going to sound really insane, but I just equate Parmigiani's name with Parmigiano reggiano (a popular Italian cheese) and it ruins it for me. I swear, it's the dumbest thing ever but I can't uncouple the two. It greatly diminishes a great watchmaker for the smallest reason imaginable, but I can't help it.

That makes three of us. I have the same issue and to make matters worse, I know someone who colloquially refers to them as the „Käseuhr“, which literally translates to „cheese watch“, for the exact same reason.

But to be fair, I also have a few more legit gripes with the brand.

[enjoythemusic]

The Zenith is interesting, if confused about overall design, yet the below has a nicer case design imho. Wife loves the copper dial

Maybe Zenith will do a full retro Defy case, that'd be great!