Lange without box for resale

[robmarti]

Looking into purchasing a Lange datograph perpetual with no box or papers. It was recently serviced in Germany and that is authentic. Buying from reputable company. What are the thoughts of everyone here on the value with the original box and books for buying now and cost should be without those as well the resale value down the road? Thanks for help.

[charger_vital]

No box/papers has never bothered me. You get a better deal. Then again, I'm typically in the business of buying and wearing watches, rather than selling them.

[robmarti]

I do plan on wearing and keeping for sometime but likely never keep forever and being an expensive piece was seeing what the upsale charge is with it?

[Bearxj86]

If I am not wrong, Lange may issue a certificate of authencity during service for a charge? Might want to check :)

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

if i am not wrong, lange may issue a certificate of authencity during service for a charge? Might want to check :)

+1

[themast]

I have never been in this situation so I am not sure.

But I would venture to guess that whatever you manage to save now you will lose later (proportionally). What i mean is that if these go now on average for $100 with box and papers and you get yours at $80. When you will resell you will likely have to accept similar deltas. Moving forward I don't think the value of box and papers will go down. For one thing now everybody seems to be even more obsessed with what a "full set" so perhaps we have reached the top, but will it go even higher? Who knows (sorry I am not answering your question).


BTW this is an expensive watch and I am kind of surprised that it is missing box and papers (but maybe it is not surprising as this may be a drop in the bucket for somebody). Do you know a bit more about the history of the watch? Do you have absolute confidence in seller?

[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by themast

I have never been in this situation so I am not sure.

But I would venture to guess that whatever you manage to save now you will lose later (proportionally). What i mean is that if these go now on average for $100 with box and papers and you get yours at $80. When you will resell you will likely have to accept similar deltas.

BTW this is an expensive watch and I am kind of surprised that it is missing box and papers (but maybe it is not surprising as this may be a drop in the bucket for somebody). Do you know a bit more about the history of the watch? Do you have absolute confidence in seller?

From what I have heard, beyond the price difference, but I think should come out around the same. Higher end watches without papers are also harder to sell.

[themast]

Originally Posted by LPC6

Higher end watches without papers are also harder to sell.

Hence, the possibility to get a better deal on the financial side.

I think the OP knows that whatever pros and cons he is experiencing now as a buyer he will have to payback as a seller but he would like to know if these will change over time.

[robmarti]

seller is legit but I think there price is a little high not having box or original papers. It was just serviced in Germany and comes with that showing authenticity so it is legit and just cleaned and serviced so in great condition, I'm assuming, so will have that. I agree that I think harder to sell in future without complete set but in this market, things change so much it could be a high demand in a few years and not be an issue. Just hoping not to take too hard hit. Called an AD and they cannot get an extra box for me.

[robmarti]

being concerned about it as despite a good dealer and just serviced. The price difference online from other sellers and sites is markedly more than there price and just concerned about price difference and seeing why. Either do to not having package or great buy for them and wanting to move fast, not sure.

[robmarti]

do you think a box and "full set" is worth 20K from high end timepiece?

[Bug04]

Same point I had. Then, I simply focused on current mkt dynamics where a dial color on a high end watch, not even LE, may make a difference even higher that 20k.

Originally Posted by robmarti

do you think a box and "full set" is worth 20K from high end timepiece?

[robmarti]

Originally Posted by Bug04

Same point I had. Then, I simply focused on current mkt dynamics where a dial color on a high end watch, not even LE, may make a difference even higher that 20k.

Not sure what you mean by this except trying to say not to worry or try to figure it out since something as simple as color moves market so just enjoy?

Hard to do that as large purchase.

[Coolcamden]

I think I know the watch you’re talking about.

Then let me say this to help you with your decision: that’s a great piece at A GREAT PRICE! Don’t hesitate and Jump On It, or I may buy it from under you. (I won’t, since you brought it up on this thread). Good luck and enjoy it.

[raclaims]

No B&P to me is a risk that it's stolen and I'd never buy it personally

Even if it was serviced it's possible the theft wasn't reported to them yet or timely or whatever

[PBJ1925]

Lack of a box never bothered me but papers do. Some of my older boxes have started to deteriorate over the course of time, and although I'm not in a regular habit of buying/selling, papers are something I always prefer when buying pre-owned.

Gives me a sense of its age, history, etc.. but many of the haute horology companies do provide some type of papers or extracts with service and/or fees.

[Jimbo]

For lower end watches, no box or papers is fine. You get great deals. For mid-priced watches, I can also live with no box, but papers are important to me for authenticity and warranty purposes (the boxes on mid-priced watches are nothing special, and resale value will drop anyway, so a little steeper drop isn't really an issue).

For for a high-end piece, especially an ALS, I would never buy without box and papers, full set. Whether you are planning to keep it, or resell it way down the road, you are paying for presentation as well as for the actual watch. ALS boxes are a little underwhelming for sure, but still, whether you believe it or not, watches at this price range are all investments of one kind or another.

[Bug04]

Yes it is hard indeed. I meant that in today’s mkt small features move huge price differences, regardless intrinsic value (such as a dial color or presence of B&P). So enjoy the watch but only paying the fair price (this meaning to me, at least 15% discount over full set price), also considering that if not full set, in general a high end watch (especially if not a vintage and if not particularly rare), as mentioned in previous messages is less “liquid” for future sales.

Originally Posted by robmarti

Not sure what you mean by this except trying to say not to worry or try to figure it out since something as simple as color moves market so just enjoy?

Hard to do that as large purchase.

[JonaG]

From my brief research, a movement overhaul for that piece is pushing $5k so that’s got to be worth something, yes, get a good discount as no B&P but then the seller can use the recent service as justification for the price too.

[Justindo]

It's not as if you have to worry about it being fake (try faking a Lange!) but one has to wonder if it might have been stolen. (Who loses a very nice leather box and papers for a $150k watch, even if you're wealthy?) While I personally would pass, saving $20k is nice and might be worth the gamble, especially if it's just been serviced by ALS.

[RoscoPico]

If it were serviced and proven authentic I would have no problem whatsoever, maybe even prefer the good deal since I would not very likely ever sell.
My Grand Lange 1 came with a flimsy cardboard box which is a bit surprising.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Justindo

It's not as if you have to worry about it being fake (try faking a Lange!) but one has to wonder if it might have been stolen. (Who loses a very nice leather box and papers for a $150k watch, even if you're wealthy?) While I personally would pass, saving $20k is nice and might be worth the gamble, especially if it's just been serviced by ALS.

Exactly my thoughts.

[MrBlahBlah]

Originally Posted by RoscoPico

If it were serviced and proven authentic I would have no problem whatsoever, maybe even prefer the good deal since I would not very likely ever sell.
My Grand Lange 1 came with a flimsy cardboard box which is a bit surprising.

Agreed. If it’s confirmed legit then take the discount. It’s a real watch, and it’s real money!


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[joli160]

Since you want to sell in the future you should not buy it.

It will be a very difficult sell as a private person in this price range and near impossible if incomplete.
Somebody looking for a Datograph doesn’t care about +/- 10K but wants the best example with all the bells and whistles imho

[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by themast

Hence, the possibility to get a better deal on the financial side.

I think the OP knows that whatever pros and cons he is experiencing now as a buyer he will have to payback as a seller but he would like to know if these will change over time.

I think the main difference is that he is buying from a reputable dealer right now. Not saying OP is not reputable, but he won't have the same reputation when it comes to selling something without papers that will make it harder for individual sellers.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by joli160

since you want to sell in the future you should not buy it.

It will be a very difficult sell as a private person in this price range and near impossible if incomplete.
Somebody looking for a datograph doesn’t care about +/- 10k but wants the best example with all the bells and whistles imho

100

[themast]

Originally Posted by LPC6

I think the main difference is that he is buying from a reputable dealer right now. Not saying OP is not reputable, but he won't have the same reputation when it comes to selling something without papers that will make it harder for individual sellers.

Very good point.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by raclaims

No B&P to me is a risk that it's stolen and I'd never buy it personally

Even if it was serviced it's possible the theft wasn't reported to them yet or timely or whatever

This is my first concern as well

Second concern as stated by others above is that it will be more challenging to resell down the road.

[Nathan_]

There are half a dozen ALS boxes on ebay at the moment; may be worth keeping a saved search with notifications if you do end up purchasing the watch?

Boxes/papers can be lost due to natural disasters, moving houses, fires, burglaries & wives doing spring cleaning (as happened to a close friend) etc

[robmarti]

Thanks for all the advice. So far still likely going to purchase. Watch is on way next week from servicing. Will let you how it goes. Been watching eBay for box as well. German service papers with all information look good and reported 2017 production.