Strange happenings in Hong Kong - grey market dealers

[dmash]

Originally Posted by AperolSpritz

Well am glad I never bought above retail...
Though we might quickly end up in a situation where most pieces will trade below retail on the grey.
Not that I care that much but wonder how the brands are going to respond to that. Especially those which have massively invested in their own distribution channels and cut ADs (hence increasing their opex)

Precisely why I’m still shocked AP raised prices again so soon. We haven’t even reached a bottom an Offshores are going for $10k less than retail + tax. Got to be a good balance somewhere, this will look horrendous for AP if they actually drop prices on some models in the next year or so.

[aa909]

Originally Posted by dmash

Precisely why I’m still shocked AP raised prices again so soon. We haven’t even reached a bottom an Offshores are going for $10k less than retail + tax. Got to be a good balance somewhere, this will look horrendous for AP if they actually drop prices on some models in the next year or so.

Whoa, has AP ever down a price drop before? that would be a disaster for the brand

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by aa909

Whoa, has AP ever down a price drop before? that would be a disaster for the brand

If I remember correctly, they did once for one of the PM chronographs? But other members can correct me. The response wasn’t too great from AP collectors if my memory still works.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by HMHM

If I remember correctly, they did once for one of the PM chronographs? But other members can correct me. The response wasn’t too great from AP collectors if my memory still works.

They've done price decreases on CE ROO's also in the past from what I remember.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by aa909

Whoa, has AP ever down a price drop before? that would be a disaster for the brand

Yes they have done price decreases in the past. The pricing on their precious metal pieces got out of whack and they dropped the prices a not insignificant amount. Was terrible for the brand, they never recovered, just like PP when they dropped prices on the nautilus 7 years ago.

Link to one of the earlier discussions on this:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=276905

It was done to combat the discounting and the grey market. MSRP was high but no one ever paid it. So they dropped MSRP and held AD cost the same so they squeezed the ADs to discourage discounting of the pieces. People who bought recently took a hit, but back then they were being discounted 25%+ off of MSRP.

[Champagnepapi]

Originally Posted by SMD

Yes they have done price decreases in the past. The pricing on their precious metal pieces got out of whack and they dropped the prices a not insignificant amount. Was terrible for the brand, they never recovered, just like PP when they dropped prices on the nautilus 7 years ago.

Link to one of the earlier discussions on this:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=276905

It was done to combat the discounting and the grey market. MSRP was high but no one ever paid it. So they dropped MSRP and held AD cost the same so they squeezed the ADs to discourage discounting of the pieces. People who bought recently took a hit, but back then they were being discounted 25%+ off of MSRP.

Times have changed and so has the market. Once upon a time rolex couldn’t sell Daytona’s and practically gave them away as gifts. Well, you know the rest….


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[aa909]

Originally Posted by SMD

Yes they have done price decreases in the past. The pricing on their precious metal pieces got out of whack and they dropped the prices a not insignificant amount. Was terrible for the brand, they never recovered, just like PP when they dropped prices on the nautilus 7 years ago.

Link to one of the earlier discussions on this:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=276905

It was done to combat the discounting and the grey market. MSRP was high but no one ever paid it. So they dropped MSRP and held AD cost the same so they squeezed the ADs to discourage discounting of the pieces. People who bought recently took a hit, but back then they were being discounted 25%+ off of MSRP.

Ugh! That is a disaster for the brand.

I’ve already seen 2 15500or for retail on the grey market. If we get another leg down in the markets these precious metal ROs are going below retail in 2023 🤦*♂️

[911AP]

Originally Posted by aa909

Ugh! That is a disaster for the brand.

I’ve already seen 2 15500or for retail on the grey market. If we get another leg down in the markets these precious metal ROs are going below retail in 2023 ��*♂️

Send a link to these pieces please. I'll buy one. Every grey market dealer I look at is still asking 2-3x MSRP for any RO. 15500st are all in the 45k+ range unless it's a blue dial. Then it's 65k. But if someone is offering a 15500 in rose at retail, I'll buy it.

As far as price decreases, yes a few years back they dropped all PM prices a lot to account for the currency changes between the euro and dollar. It sucked for everyone especially hard who had just bought platinum pieces. The price decrease on those was like 40k or something big like that.

[macrowatch]

All this hype then bubble deflate carnage has me thinking PP got the trend right after all by discontinuing 5711. As the tides recede, there is now too too many RO on the market, more coming online, but no more 5711 for now. And at least there were way less per year 5711 vs RO anyways.

More importantly after having lived with the 50th’s for some time now, I will confess I like 15500 and 26331 more than the 50th’s.

[anx21]

Originally Posted by 911AP

Send a link to these pieces please. I'll buy one. Every grey market dealer I look at is still asking 2-3x MSRP for any RO. 15500st are all in the 45k+ range unless it's a blue dial. Then it's 65k. But if someone is offering a 15500 in rose at retail, I'll buy it.

As far as price decreases, yes a few years back they dropped all PM prices a lot to account for the currency changes between the euro and dollar. It sucked for everyone especially hard who had just bought platinum pieces. The price decrease on those was like 40k or something big like that.

Here you go, I look forward to your "Incoming" post

[dmash]

Originally Posted by anx21

Here you go, I look forward to your "Incoming" post

Highly doubt you're getting a response, he's gotten realllyyyy quiet in the last 10 days after he was on about how there's this incredible demand to keep AP at 2-3x MSRP. He still never responded to this post I asked him about below either

Sealed/NEW 50th RO is going for only a 50% premium now. 15500 at essentially MSRP + tax. and essentially zero sign we've touched a bottom. 2-3x MSRP is laughable, only a schmuck would pay that right now, just facts.

Originally Posted by 911AP

I don't know.....I had 3 ROOs. Sold 2 of them for more than I paid to dealers who had them on consignment. No issues. Both sold in less than 2 weeks. Still have 1 left. Made space for the bigger pieces I'm trying to get now.

You can't really get out of the taxes anymore. I was able to do that with the first 2, but not the third one.

Originally Posted by dmash

Just to clarify. In summation, you’ve:

- flipped 2 (possibly soon to be 3) ROO
- flipped a 15500 recently

Yet your House/Boutique has zero issue with you churning their allocations and gave you a 15202st/you have hopes of a 15407st too.

Very, very interesting data point here.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by anx21

Here you go, I look forward to your "Incoming" post

As ever with threads like this the devil is really in the detail........

So with that 2021 15500OR its without warranty card (but "new, archives papers") and by the look of it not supplied with the OEM strap but a Rubber one. Also listing says "with box" but not "original box"

What currency is that 46,500 in please.......and vs. MSRP in the same region?

Also condition is unknown from what you posted/linked to as well....

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by anx21

Here you go, I look forward to your "Incoming" post

lol no card but new with archives paper.

[FrmrHoss]

Originally Posted by dmash

Precisely why I’m still shocked AP raised prices again so soon. We haven’t even reached a bottom an Offshores are going for $10k less than retail + tax. Got to be a good balance somewhere, this will look horrendous for AP if they actually drop prices on some models in the next year or so.

Ironically I got a call for a ROO this week. I have a sporadic history with AP (bought a 15400 back in 2017 and then a Code chrono last year) and really only want something precious metal in RO from them at this point in time. My SA reached out for the ROO with a "didn't want you to think I wasn't thinking about you!" message. The pessimist in me was thinking "or, you just went through another price increase, the secondary market for these things are collapsing and you called a lot of customers that actually have expressed interest in one and they're all passing...."

Just one anecdote to add....