Who are Patek's main competition?

[BigHat]

Originally Posted by boa2

Again, I think it's much more informative to compare two watches than it is two brands. In any case, you gotta go with the one that smiles back at you.

Of course, this is precisely the point and usually where discussions go awry when comparisons are made. I had planned to post pics of these two and say that personally I'd buy the Lange, but got lazy.

[iwantagmt]

Originally Posted by unknown

Well, I don't think that is correct my friend :-)
I admit, I am baised towards the 5070 BUT these are parts of reviews which compared the VC and the Patek. It is clear that there is a HUGE difference

A lot of companies claim to use modifed versions of various movements but often times the extent of that modification is cursory at best (an engraved rotor, chemically blued screws). When Patek Philippe modifies the Lemania 2320 to turn it into the CH27-70, they truly make it their own.
You can see that the balance bridge and escape wheel cock are completely new as is all of the chronograph transfer wheel mechanism and much of the rest of the chronograph mechanism. Patek has added a jeweled bearing to the visible portion of the auxiliary fourth wheel, a cap to the column wheel and generally finished the whole movement to Patek standards. Frankly I'm not sure how much of the original movement is present at all.

Of course the Vacheron version is very nice in its own right. They are not slouches when it comes to fine finishing. They just have not modifed the movement as heavily as Patek by any stretch.

and a bit more

Patek changes the balance to its free-sprung Gyromax system--a very important change. Additionally it must do something to the barrel as the power reserve jumps from 48 hours on the "stock" Lemania to 60 hours on the Patek version. Also, the return to zero spring is different from the basic Lemania. At the end of the day, what really carries over is the some of the gearing, the shape of return to zero hammer and the minute counter mechanism. I, for one, have no difficulty at all in thinking of the 27-70 as an in house movement


SO we can say Patek did A LOT of modifications while VC just bought the movement and put it in the case.


And about the Lange vs Patek level of finish, this is a must read

http://www.timezone.com/library/horo...71464248171541

I was pretty sure that Lange is at the same level as Patek. But ... just read this
(most of us know Walt Odets, if you don't know him, you should !)

Vacheron Constantin no longer buys a lemania decorated movement. They now source the ebauche and finish it in house just like Patek. However, they still do not do as good a job as Patek in finishing IMO, and do not replace the escapement, etc...

[boa2]

Originally Posted by iwantagmt

Vacheron Constantin no longer buys a lemania decorated movement. They now source the ebauche and finish it in house just like Patek. However, they still do not do as good a job as Patek in finishing IMO, and do not replace the escapement, etc...

Have you seen it in person? It just arrived in ADs, and I had the chance to try it in person at a VC dinner. It's quite a beautiful piece.

[boa2]

As an aside, I passed by Tourneau today on 57th St. in NYC, and I knew the woman working the Patek display, who used to work at the Audemars Piguet Boutique just down the street. I was able to try on the 5098, which just came out in rose gold. As beautiful as the platinum version is, this one was just off the hook!

Not my photo:

[iwantagmt]

Have not seen it in person...My comment about the finishing was specifically about the Lemania based chronos. I am really a sucker for a Gyromax and the cap on the column wheel is just so neat! And you are a lucky man to attend such an event!

[boa2]

Originally Posted by iwantagmt

Have not seen it in person...My comment about the finishing was specifically about the Lemania based chronos. I am really a sucker for a Gyromax and the cap on the column wheel is just so neat! And you are a lucky man to attend such an event!

Thanks, Brandon. It was a really nice dinner that VC hosted, and Christian Selmoni (Director of Product Development) attended as well...wearing the Perpetual version of this same watch. Crikey, was that a beauty!

[iwantagmt]

I am planning a move to NYC in 2 years, after I finish school. I hope I will have the opportunity to attend such events!

[boa2]

Originally Posted by iwantagmt

I am planning a move to NYC in 2 years, after I finish school. I hope I will have the opportunity to attend such events!

It's definitely a good place to be for wristwatch-related activity. Best of luck in preparation for your move! Two years will pass quickly.

[iwantagmt]

Originally Posted by boa2

Two years will pass quickly.

Especially with my school schedule!!

[cody p]

rolex is their #1 competition. everyone aspires to have the brand recognition that rolex has as the best/finest watch on the planet (as percepted by the benighted masses at large). pp believes that that crown as best/finest watch is theirs, but rolex, through clever marketing, has conviced the world at large otherwise. rolex is an usurper in patek's eyes.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by cody p

rolex is their #1 competition. everyone aspires to have the brand recognition that rolex has as the best/finest watch on the planet (as percepted by the benighted masses at large). pp believes that that crown as best/finest watch is theirs, but rolex, through clever marketing, has conviced the world at large otherwise. rolex is an usurper in patek's eyes.

I am not too sure about that personally. Either it is me misreading your post (if so i'm sorry in advance!) but Rolex does not compare. History / true prestige can not compare to a marketing campaign that deserves an A++. Once people start to know watches and break free of what they were almost programmed to feel they will realize. Totally get what your saying about people in general wanting that when they think of a high end watch but they are not the same level of watch.


Patek Phhilippe, Vacheron Constantin, Audemars Piguet





Vercharon Constantin is in my opinion true direct competition and here is why:


"Vacheron Constantin is a Swiss manufacture of prestige watches and a brand of the Richemont group. It currently employs around 400 people worldwide, most of whom are based in the manufacturing plant; a modern building in Geneva"



"Vacheron Constantin was founded in Geneva, Switzerland in 1755 by Jean-Marc Vacheron. This makes it the oldest watch manufacturer in the world with an uninterrupted history."


"Previous Vacheron Constantin [1] owners include Napoleon Bonaparte, Pope Pius XI, the Duke of Windsor and Harry Truman."


Historically significant for huge reasons, and exclusive limited numbers. People often do not want what the masses / majority are on about or wanting, espectially when paying top dollar. It is nice to be exclusive and different and the insanely low production numbers etc etc of Vacheron Constantin, considering it is also in the "Prestige watches" category makes them direct competion.


Watches like Patek Philippe back in the day were custom made for the Queen when he was alive. As we all know their specialty is complex, thin, innovative movements like none other.


Rolex is fantastic and I like them a lot but to me there is no way a mass produced brand that makes around 900,000 watches a year can classify as direct competition / #1 with a brand like Patek Philippe. Directly from Wikipedia:



"Audemars Piguet is a manufacturer of expensive Swiss watches that compete with Patek Phillipe and Vacheron Constantin."


To me when it comes to "grail", money is no object watches and true prestige is is indeed among those 3 brands. Rolex according to Wikipedia as of 2005 had 6,000 employees (the figure comes out to about 2,000 watches made daily if that makes sense) so they are turning them out like crazy. Again, love the brand and will buy one asap but it does not measure up in my books...


A lot of the cost for a Rolex goes into covering the greater overhead costs for more buildings, stuff like more employees and probably the most expensive marketing campaign in all of watch making. That compared to a company founded in the 1700's or 1800's that has around 400 employees WORLD WIDE and offers watches fit for Royalty literally is not competition, more like a different option.



The packaging for Patek, VC and AP is mindblowing too and more shows what your getting to me.


Source on picture

in different sizes


vs


$
Source on picture



From - theworldofmodernmen.com



Source on picture


From - thepurists.com



From - professionalwatches.com



On a level of their own, indeed. You can see the loupe / magnifine glass in one of those pictures. I herd the GO watches (some of them of course) comes with a loupe in the box too.






Maybe in the sense you can own several watches for the price of just one Prestige watch, and the fact they are pratical for daily use yet very elegant and high end. More of the tool watch meeting luxury, from the KING of mid range watch brands.


Rolex does an out of this world job with marketing but people often do not realize (And I am not saying you at all but in general) that there are other, far better brands out there. And truly with Swiss watches it is not always a question of what is better but more what is best for you persoanlly. As much as I love Patek, AP, VC it seems far more sensible to buy a Rolex for daily use, to swim in etc etc but too common and talked about, it is nice to have something with such a truly rich history that is lesser known and on a league of it's own. This again is just my opinion but do not feel those brands are really in competition. Herd from watchtime that there are roughly 2,000 ish brands based in Switzerland that make good quality watches. Great for competition if that is accurate and variety but regardless to what most of those do they can not measure up to the big 3, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin.

[iwantagmt]

Originally Posted by RW16610

Watches like Patek Philippe back in the day were custom made for the Queen when he was alive.

other than this hilarious typo I agree, the history of PP, VC, and AP makes 'em that little bit more special!

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by iwantagmt

other than this hilarious typo I agree, the history of PP, VC, and AP makes 'em that little bit more special!

Hahaha oops Yeah was trying to get that done as quickly as possible to go do something after, but you know what I mena

[vukotab]

IMHO, only two names: Vacheron Constantine and Jaeger Le Coultre.

[drtooth73]

RW: your packaging photos did not include Panerai. The Ferrari line features boxes way more luxurious than Rolex, but it does not mean they are on the same level as Patek.

Same with history: Blancpain (DOB 1735) is older than VC.

My guess about true competition is to look at Antiquorum and others houses.
Patek and Vacheron tend to be the most sought after there, and sold at ridiculously high prices, with some priced several million per watch.
I would add one more competitor, Franck Muller. Their line up is somewhat similar to Patek in regards to complications/price range. Their top model is sold at over a million USD, with a calendar spanning a millenium and leap year adjustment according to Gregorian calendar( losing a leap year every 400 years). They laid off half of their workforce, we'll see if they make a comeback.

[boa2]

Originally Posted by drtooth73

RW: your packaging photos did not include Panerai. The Ferrari line features boxes way more luxurious than Rolex, but it does not mean they are on the same level as Patek.

Same with history: Blancpain (DOB 1735) is older than VC.

My guess about true competition is to look at Antiquorum and others houses.
Patek and Vacheron tend to be the most sought after there, and sold at ridiculously high prices, with some priced several million per watch.
I would add one more competitor, Franck Muller. Their line up is somewhat similar to Patek in regards to complications/price range. Their top model is sold at over a million USD, with a calendar spanning a millenium and leap year adjustment according to Gregorian calendar( losing a leap year every 400 years). They laid off half of their workforce, we'll see if they make a comeback.

I think his point was that VC is the oldest with an uninterrupted history.

Franck Muller as competition for Patek? Try that one on a Patek forum, but be sure and wear armor.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by drtooth73

RW: your packaging photos did not include Panerai. The Ferrari line features boxes way more luxurious than Rolex, but it does not mean they are on the same level as Patek.

That brand did not make the list (and i'm sure some others offer superb packaging that were not mentioned). General rule of product packaging that it should be more in perportion with the item (obviously). When you spend $7,000.00 - $10,000.00 or more you truly get something that makes you feel more than happy with what you got. Not important for all, everyone will be different. Have seen the red Ferrari box..., it is nice yes but something about the Patek Philippe Mahogany varnished boxes, the cover for the box, booklets etc etc along with the watch that is totally different still.

Originally Posted by boa2

I think his point was that VC is the oldest with an uninterrupted history.
Franck Muller as competition for Patek? Try that one on a Patek forum, but be sure and wear armor.

Exactly, and so much more about those few brands that most would compare with Patek Philippe (Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin) that is different.



That would truly start a heated debate on a Patek forum

[PHPuser]

I think patek should be compared to something more like a Bugatti

Than a measley BMW