Sweet Interior Angles

[Ichiran]

Carvings from Catalan.

[Ichiran]

Heavy metal.

[kunlun]

Okay, it's time to trot out my very silly critique of being a fan of internal angles (keep in mind, I am also a fan). This is meant to stir thinking, but in a lighthearted way.

Ready?

Here goes: People who get obsessed with internal angles are like guys who get obsessed with women's underwear!

Why?

Internal angles are primarily a signifier, a stand-in for what we really want, which is genuine hand finishing and craftsmanship. Women's underwear is a stand-in for the women themselves. In either case, the signifier may be beautiful on its own. But it's better to be reminded of what it is that is the antecedent, primary value, be it the work of a craftswoman, or the affection of the craftswoman herself.

Today's silly post brought to you by my memory of reading an obituary of an English philosopher of ethics who also had a ladies' underwear fetish.

Keep in mind, with situations like Patek's abandonment of hand finishing (and the Geneva Seal, which requires it) in its lower and mid-tier models, a lack of internal angles is a very useful sign compared to, say, an entry level Breguet 5177, which keeps two internal angles as a sign for those who know. In other cases, it's not so useful! Consider the whole finishing and then consider finishing in the context of the whole watch!

[Ichiran]

Root cause vs symptoms

Yes what you said make sense, but just can't help it.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Here goes: People who get obsessed with internal angles are like guys who get obsessed with women's underwear!

Hmmmm, yes there is a difference between Haines cotton 'daily beaters' and, dare i say, something special for the ladies made from handcrafted lace and fine silk. Sure the daily beater works, but may not be as alluring or feel special. Furthermore, and i asked my wife, that something special also brings more happiness.

Nothing wrong with my $300 Timex that looks a lot like a Patek Philippe (dial and style). Very accurate movement too, plus the Timex has a higher waterproof rating than ALL Patek timepieces. Why pay more?

But when you step up something like a RR, MB&F, etc, we know the reality of what is possible versus what is just passable back in the 1960s when the Marketing Campaign of Trinity somehow became folklure.

Keep in mind, with situations like Patek's abandonment of hand finishing (and the Geneva Seal, which requires it) in its lower and mid-tier models, a lack of internal angles is a very useful sign compared to, say, an entry level Breguet 5177, which keeps two internal angles as a sign for those who know. In other cases, it's not so useful! Consider the whole finishing and then consider finishing in the context of the whole watch!

Agree, it is relative to the overall design and if higher-level true handcrafting is chosen over more machines. Obvious to anyone, let us not call certain brands as the best (Trinity or Horsemen). The 1960s is long gone, long live higher possibilities we have available today

[nickorette]

Great thread!

[Andad]

More pix required.

[Ichiran]

Happily obliged

Another pic of the RRCC/AK06 by Akrivia. See the glorious carvings on the gear wheels, plates and bridges. Below is what happens when it is hand-finished like this and when light shines at an angle. It's an harmonious delight. See how the man "hide" the balance amongst the gear wheels to create a perfect symmetry. Oh man those spokes. This is not a work by mortals.

[Andad]

Very nice.

Some amazing finishes.

I was particularly impressed with the SBGZ007 Seiko movement.

Excellent work in this category.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Andad

Very nice.

Some amazing finishes.

I was particularly impressed with the SBGZ007 Seiko movement.

Excellent work in this category.

This movement is in my first post of this thread
It must have involved many hours, high level of skill and a level of obsession to carve those angles like that.

[Ichiran]

Pascal Coyon's beautiful work. Again, see the carving inside the wheels.

[kunlun]

Thank you for posting that picture!

Pascal says my watch will arrive before the new year. It's based on a watch from 1928 or so that just had a beautiful look and metallem did the custom hand guilloché dial. Should be nice!

[Ichiran]

Early congratulations! I'm so excited to see your watch hopefully in time for Christmas (very keen to see that Metalem guilloché too)

[RyanO]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

This is art.

Have to agree. Thanks for sharing all of these spectacular photos - so much to admire here.


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[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by RyanO

Have to agree. Thanks for sharing all of these spectacular photos - so much to admire here.

Happy to share, hopefully more soon

[RRJ]

Do you know of any brands producing watches with those carved out wheels in a white metal, below CHF 100k and ideally with an inhouse movement? I'm starting to become obsessed with this type of finissage as well lol.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

This movement is in my first post of this thread
It must have involved many hours, high level of skill and a level of obsession to carve those angles like that.

I saw your first pix Michael and googled for the specs and the second pix.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by RRJ

Do you know of any brands producing watches with those carved out wheels in a white metal, below CHF 100k and ideally with an inhouse movement? I'm starting to become obsessed with this type of finissage as well lol.

List below is not exhaustive of course. I wish I can include RRCCII here but it is way beyond CHF 100k.
Simon Brette Chronomètre Artisans, Petermann Bedat 1967, Sylvain Pinaud Origine, Kari Voutilainen Vingt-8, Xhevdet Rexhepi Minute Inerte (at the periphery only, none at centre), Raúl Pagès RP1, Atelier de Chronomètre AdC.

Originally Posted by Andad

I saw your first pix Michael and googled for the specs and the second pix.

[arolexguy]

Krayon Anywhere is my grail watch


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[Cru Jones]

Excellent photos everyone!

[hora12]

Looking forward to seeing it, the 20’s inspired Pascal Coyon.

[Calatrava r]

This is the new competition the old "holy trinity" faces.

[Ichiran]

Carvings.

[Ichiran]

Happy 2025!

[Ichiran]

Hand-finishing by Minhoon Yoo. See the curvature on the interior angle and the carvings in the spokes of wheel. This is excellent.

[Ichiran]

The ever irresistible Simon Brette Chronomètre Artisans. Picture by Waitlisted.

[Ichiran]

Hand Made 2.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by RRJ

Do you know of any brands producing watches with those carved out wheels in a white metal, below CHF 100k and ideally with an inhouse movement? I'm starting to become obsessed with this type of finissage as well lol.

Breguet tradition

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Breguet tradition

There are no carved spokes in Breguet Tradition watches in the current catalogue.

[Ichiran]

Carved spokes and interior angle on a Kari Inverse.