Shower + Steam = Water Inside Submariner?

[jakeysrolex]

So here's a really strange story. For you, watch savvy detective minds!

I just picked up a 11661LB "Smurf"(https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=525996) from a shop in Hong Kong that I bought from previously and have a good relationship with. Very nice condition, from 2012, all good.

Took a shower with it on the next morning.

Hot shower, ten minutes, well steamed up shower room. All still well. Went into town to run some errands.

And before we get to the next part .. I have a stainless Sub-C that goes through hell on a regular basis. Kitesurfing 3-5 times a week, meaning sand, salt water, waves, bumps and real life. Motorbike road trips all over southeast Asia. Jungles in Burma to Soi Cowboy in Bangkok, in six months this thing has been in more trouble than a lot of watches probably see, ever. And it's fine of course. Keeps time to within a second a day, all is well.

That just to put this next weird bit into some more context.

I'm somewhere on Hong Kong island. Look down to check the time on Papa Smurf. Glass looks smudged. I wipe the glass. Glass continues to looks smudged. I wipe the glass. I look closer. What in the world?

Water. Condensation under the crystal.

At this point I'm more than a little irritated. Twenty thousand plus dollars for a dive watch and a shower kills it? I'm thinking the watch maker didn't pressure test it, how long has it been like this, images of a totally screwed movement, me leaving tomorrow for another country, no time to deal with this, etc etc.

So I go back to the watch shop.

And those guys are incredible. They got me another Smurf, equally mint, already waiting for me (I messaged ahead, noting a less than well inclined Jake returning with a wet watch). They said, options, we can get your watch serviced, pick up in a few days. Or we can replace the movement. Or you can take this replacement watch, though a year older, if you want.

Love those guys. Except for this part:

They insist that it's the shower that wrecked it. Not as in "it's your fault, your problem", but almost as an aside. They tell me that it happens all the time, they always tell the Chinese (who they say love their saunas) to *not* take their watch into the steam sauna. Dive yes, sauna no.

Which, that's just stupid.

So then they go get their watchmaker to open up shop (Sunday, closed), and pressure test the watch. It passes. Perfectly, zero drop passes. They test the potential replacement Smurf. Passes as well. And this is the fancy pressure test thing with all the bells and whistles.

Weird?

And yes, the crown was locked down. I'm very careful about this. There were no impacts, I literally had the watch for less than 24 hours, and my other sub gets regular beatings four thousand times worse than a little hot shower (though to note, the other Sub never had a steamy hot shower).

So what gives? Watch tests perfectly waterproof, the shop has been around 20 years, the people telling me "no steam" have been working at the shop over ten years, and they say it like they've said it a million times.

But, steam? Really?

I don't see a warning about steam on the Rolex site, no Google search reveals his ever happening to anyone else. How's it possible that a modern Rolex sub pressure tests perfectly, a couple of hours after having been exposed to a hot shower and somehow water having gotten inside?

Anyway. A little paranoid now, even if HK and some really good watchmakers are just a flight away. Mostly curious how the physics of this work, or if there's another, better explanation.

[Old Expat Beast]

I'd get a refund and find another dealer.

[yannis]

That is not normal imho. So you took the replacement?

[japenney]

Well you aren't supposed to wear your watch in the shower because steam can damage the seals overtime. However, I would not expect there to be an issue after a single shower.

New watch imo and get it serviced by rolex if it's 5 years old and your really worried. This is where ponying up for a new watch can make sense. You have no idea what happened to that watch in the last 5 years.

[BladeDogg]

That shouldn't happen but I have heard some stories of watches have even if VERY little it is a small amount of moisture in the watch due to where it was serviced/opened/etc. If there is humidity in the air where it was serviced that amount of moisture could show up when the temp goes up or down. I just wouldn't think it would in this case.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by jakeysrolex

So here's a really strange story. For you, watch savvy detective minds!

I just picked up a 11661LB "Smurf"(https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=525996) from a shop in Hong Kong that I bought from previously and have a good relationship with. Very nice condition, from 2012, all good.

Took a shower with it on the next morning.

Hot shower, ten minutes, well steamed up shower room. All still well. Went into town to run some errands.

And before we get to the next part .. I have a stainless Sub-C that goes through hell on a regular basis. Kitesurfing 3-5 times a week, meaning sand, salt water, waves, bumps and real life. Motorbike road trips all over southeast Asia. Jungles in Burma to Soi Cowboy in Bangkok, in six months this thing has been in more trouble than a lot of watches probably see, ever. And it's fine of course. Keeps time to within a second a day, all is well.

That just to put this next weird bit into some more context.

I'm somewhere on Hong Kong island. Look down to check the time on Papa Smurf. Glass looks smudged. I wipe the glass. Glass continues to looks smudged. I wipe the glass. I look closer. What in the world?

Water. Condensation under the crystal.

At this point I'm more than a little irritated. Twenty thousand plus dollars for a dive watch and a shower kills it? I'm thinking the watch maker didn't pressure test it, how long has it been like this, images of a totally screwed movement, me leaving tomorrow for another country, no time to deal with this, etc etc.

So I go back to the watch shop.

And those guys are incredible. They got me another Smurf, equally mint, already waiting for me (I messaged ahead, noting a less than well inclined Jake returning with a wet watch). They said, options, we can get your watch serviced, pick up in a few days. Or we can replace the movement. Or you can take this replacement watch, though a year older, if you want.

Love those guys. Except for this part:

They insist that it's the shower that wrecked it. Not as in "it's your fault, your problem", but almost as an aside. They tell me that it happens all the time, they always tell the Chinese (who they say love their saunas) to *not* take their watch into the steam sauna. Dive yes, sauna no.

Which, that's just stupid.

So then they go get their watchmaker to open up shop (Sunday, closed), and pressure test the watch. It passes. Perfectly, zero drop passes. They test the potential replacement Smurf. Passes as well. And this is the fancy pressure test thing with all the bells and whistles.

Weird?

And yes, the crown was locked down. I'm very careful about this. There were no impacts, I literally had the watch for less than 24 hours, and my other sub gets regular beatings four thousand times worse than a little hot shower (though to note, the other Sub never had a steamy hot shower).

So what gives? Watch tests perfectly waterproof, the shop has been around 20 years, the people telling me "no steam" have been working at the shop over ten years, and they say it like they've said it a million times.

But, steam? Really?

I don't see a warning about steam on the Rolex site, no Google search reveals his ever happening to anyone else. How's it possible that a modern Rolex sub pressure tests perfectly, a couple of hours after having been exposed to a hot shower and somehow water having gotten inside?

Anyway. A little paranoid now, even if HK and some really good watchmakers are just a flight away. Mostly curious how the physics of this work, or if there's another, better explanation.

Condensation on the inside of the crystal is generally an indication that there may be a problem but it your case would doubt it. Now condensation will quite normally occur when any warm/hot watch is suddenly exposed to a cold environment i.e. if you enter cold air/water then shortly after warm/hot water or visa versa. In normal circumstances this will appear as a very fine mist and should disappear in seconds, minutes, or a hour or so when the watch warms up. This is quite normal as the air trapped inside your watch after say a service will have a small amount of water vapour as its just like normal humidity in the atmosphere, if it disappears quickly all is well. Now if the misting appears as clearly definable droplets of water and does not clear quickly when warm, then it signifies that water has entered the case.Now this will NOT evaporate of its own accord and will need to be removed then afraid its off to the RSC as soon as possible,advise then to put the stopped watch in a bag of dry rice grains.

[mjclark32]

Weird that it would "pass"

I've taken my never serviced m 16610 into the shower literally thousands of times over six years and probably a hundred or two times into a steam room. No issues at all.

And, as you said it doesn't happen to your other sub...weird
Been on this forum long enough to know it doesn't happen all the time.

[droptopman]

That is odd. I wear my Subs in the jacuzzi, steam room and sauna all the time.
Much more paranoid about them getting stolen out of a locker than getting damaged by the water and heat.
Glad they sorted you out but their explanation would put my off a bit.

[Etschell]

Sounds like they sold you a defective watch. My opinion is to hack it and send it off to rsc if it doesn't go away. I'd also first try to get a refund from the seller.

[jakeysrolex]

Originally Posted by droptopman

That is odd. I wear my Subs in the jacuzzi, steam room and sauna all the time.
Much more paranoid about them getting stolen out of a locker than getting damaged by the water and heat.
Glad they sorted you out but their explanation would put my off a bit.

Yea and it did put me off. Thing is I have a good relationship with the guys there (spent a few hours hanging out over lunch today, we're on Whatsapp, they keep wanting to introduce me to girls, etc etc) and I trust that they're telling me what they think. They also didn't use the explanation to try to wiggle out and instead immediately offered several reasonable options to fix the problem. "Here's another one" really actually impressed me more than just a little bit. What are the odds, really, and how many others would just do that right from the start? Also straight away going to get both watches pressure tested, on a Sunday afternoon, and then not trying to use the "pass" result to make up some story of how I must have left the crown out or some such thing ... all first class and much appreciated.

I think they really believe that steam is the issue. And I really don't. The Interwebs would have to be full of the stories, or at least a few, right?! But then I watched the pressure test with my own eyes, unequivocal results. Passed without any drop. And yet, condensation.

The other explanations here are interesting, ie. temperature change. It got very warm in that shower, and it was chilly outside (mid teens celsius), and I did go straight out after. Then again though the amount of condensation would make me uneasy about how much humidity could be trapped in there. Maybe it's normal?

It's not keeping me up at night. I took the replacement and if an issue really arrises it's easy and relatively inexpensive to get a good full service in Hong Kong. But then I'm also inclined to avoid steamy showers till next time I come back, so at least the watch can go straight to the watch-shop-ER if it happens again.

Weirdness.

[Abdullah71601]

Sounds like they opened the watch in a humid environment, exposed the internals to the humidity, then sealed that moisture inside the case when they closed up the watch. There's nothing wrong with the seals, there's just excess moisture inside the watch.

If they are saying this happens a lot to watches they have sold, it could be that they have poor environmental controls in their watchmaker's shop and are regularly trapping moist air inside the watches.

[MCO1]

Hmmm....I don't shower in mine now but mostly to avoid soap scum. I showered in my GMT2 in my early days of ownership and never had something like this happen. I suspect not normal!

[THC]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Sounds like they opened the watch in a humid environment, exposed the internals to the humidity, then sealed that moisture inside the case when they closed up the watch. There's nothing wrong with the seals, there's just excess moisture inside the watch.

If they are saying this happens a lot to watches they have sold, it could be that they have poor environmental controls in their watchmaker's shop and are regularly trapping moist air inside the watches.

Great thought...

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Sounds like they opened the watch in a humid environment, exposed the internals to the humidity, then sealed that moisture inside the case when they closed up the watch. There's nothing wrong with the seals, there's just excess moisture inside the watch.

If they are saying this happens a lot to watches they have sold, it could be that they have poor environmental controls in their watchmaker's shop and are regularly trapping moist air inside the watches.

Exactly this!!
Most of the other posts (except Padi) are incorrect.

They should dry the watch up - check dial and movement for corrosion - and then heat the case up ( movement not inside) with a hairdrier for some minutes and then close the watch.

[Smarties]

That's not normal, unless your watch is decade old and had not been maintained regularly. I think someone had took apart your watch and damaged the sealant.

[Mystro]

I am pretty sure watch makers work in a controlled enviorment that also includes humility controlled rooms.

[Dimitris76]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I am pretty sure watch makers work in a controlled enviorment that also includes humility controlled rooms.

I am pretty sure they do it in Switzerland - not so sure they all do it in the back room of the shop in SE Asia...

[jakeysrolex]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Sounds like they opened the watch in a humid environment, exposed the internals to the humidity, then sealed that moisture inside the case when they closed up the watch. There's nothing wrong with the seals, there's just excess moisture inside the watch.

If they are saying this happens a lot to watches they have sold, it could be that they have poor environmental controls in their watchmaker's shop and are regularly trapping moist air inside the watches.

That makes a lot of sense. Good one!

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by padi56

Condensation on the inside of the crystal is generally an indication that there may be a problem but it your case would doubt it. Now condensation will quite normally occur when any warm/hot watch is suddenly exposed to a cold environment i.e. if you enter cold air/water then shortly after warm/hot water or visa versa. In normal circumstances this will appear as a very fine mist and should disappear in seconds, minutes, or a hour or so when the watch warms up. This is quite normal as the air trapped inside your watch after say a service will have a small amount of water vapour as its just like normal humidity in the atmosphere, if it disappears quickly all is well. Now if the misting appears as clearly definable droplets of water and does not clear quickly when warm, then it signifies that water has entered the case.Now this will NOT evaporate of its own accord and will need to be removed then afraid its off to the RSC as soon as possible,advise then to put the stopped watch in a bag of dry rice grains.

Great info!

So OP you already got your replacement? Same condition (minus the water)? Pics :) ?

[breitlings]

Showers and steam can ruin watches. I've had it happen on a longines. Physics wise steam is much more excited and the molecules don't hold together like water.

[Flywheel]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Sounds like they opened the watch in a humid environment, exposed the internals to the humidity, then sealed that moisture inside the case when they closed up the watch. There's nothing wrong with the seals, there's just excess moisture inside the watch.

If they are saying this happens a lot to watches they have sold, it could be that they have poor environmental controls in their watchmaker's shop and are regularly trapping moist air inside the watches.

This is the best explaination, coupled with Padi's response in that quickly changing temperatures from the shower caused the excess moisture to condensate under the crystal.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by padi56

Condensation on the inside of the crystal is generally an indication that there may be a problem but it your case would doubt it. Now condensation will quite normally occur when any warm/hot watch is suddenly exposed to a cold environment i.e. if you enter cold air/water then shortly after warm/hot water or visa versa. In normal circumstances this will appear as a very fine mist and should disappear in seconds, minutes, or a hour or so when the watch warms up. This is quite normal as the air trapped inside your watch after say a service will have a small amount of water vapour as its just like normal humidity in the atmosphere, if it disappears quickly all is well. Now if the misting appears as clearly definable droplets of water and does not clear quickly when warm, then it signifies that water has entered the case.Now this will NOT evaporate of its own accord and will need to be removed then afraid its off to the RSC as soon as possible,advise then to put the stopped watch in a bag of dry rice grains.

Yes, I've had other cheaper watches that have misted up after a shower or coming in from the very cold but they have cleared up quickly. Any lingering condensation is an issue that needs to be dealt with by RSC and some rice.

[Maiden]

Shower, sauna and hot tub with my 114060 and 116613lb quite often. Never an issue.

[Investr]

Originally Posted by flywheel

this is the best explaination, coupled with padi's response in that quickly changing temperatures from the shower caused the excess moisture to condensate under the crystal.

x2!!!

[Investr]

I also just told the BLNR he is now banned from the steam room!! Just in case....

[jakeysrolex]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

Great info!

So OP you already got your replacement? Same condition (minus the water)? Pics :) ?

Yes and equally gorgeous. Will post pix soon. Probably next time circling around HK drop it off at Classic Watch Repair for a service, just for peace of mind.

[nick c]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Sounds like they opened the watch in a humid environment, exposed the internals to the humidity, then sealed that moisture inside the case when they closed up the watch. There's nothing wrong with the seals, there's just excess moisture inside the watch.

If they are saying this happens a lot to watches they have sold, it could be that they have poor environmental controls in their watchmaker's shop and are regularly trapping moist air inside the watches.

Bingo

[Rolex addict]

If it's in good condition and properly maintained, a shower isn't going to hurt it.

[Tools]

Showers and sauna steam will not affect your Rolex if the seals are intact.

Water molecules are the same size whether in steam form or liquid and cannot "sneak" past seals that much smaller air pressure molecules (the test) cannot get by.

The answer is somewhere else (such as already in-the-watch condensation)

[phalen302]

Shower, Steam rooms, sauna has 0 effect on my submariner. It is not a a Sub issue it is a watchmakers issue who serviced/open it.