32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Lower torque does indeed lower amplitude but i wonder about two factors not fully explored.

Firstly, what is the actual torque curve delivery from the Main spring from go to wo.

Secondly, what effect or inter-relationship does it have with the Chronergy Escapement.



As i've said previously on the forum.

On paper, both items probably are great in their own right.

Is it possible they don't necessarily play that well together?



But that's just the amateur in me thinking out aloud.

Which i believe is fair enough as this is only an internet forum mostly comprised of amateurs.

Hense my reference to amateures being in respect to Horological capabilities.

Of course, that's not taking anything away from amateures in general

Look I don't know the how it affects the new escapement but this is what I do know:



1. My Omega with a 8500, 1863 and Nomos Lambda, Daytona, and YM40 get faster in the last 24 hours of it's PR. int he last 12 hrs or so it then slows right back down.



2. The 8500 and Nomos Lambda are double barrel and yes the timing keeping more stable for longer. There is of course a drop off though as torque does drop off at some point.



3. my DJ36 is running lower amplitude again and slows down a tonne towards the end.



4. the positional time variance between my YM40 and DJ36 both with 3235 is huge.

5. The nomos lambda has a 84hr pr it’s super interesting how the timing fluctuates over the span of this pr.

[lhawli]

I'm no expert but the 3135 starts to gain as PR drops over time and AMP does not drop below 200 deg when the PR is 3/4 empty for a 48h PR movement.

With the 3235 upping their PR to 70 hours yet the AMP drops below 200 deg in just 35-40 hours only means that there is friction, which should not be happening.

The only 3235 I have is my DJ41 and I can safely say that both my LV and BLNR keep more accurate time and are in the +ve (which I prefer) whereas the DJ41 goes in the -ve.

I'm happy to be calibrated (no pun intended) but it seems that the 3235 is only accurate in a very small window frame and then it drops significantly past 1/3 PR.

[Utomow]

I dont have knowledge in horology. But following this many similar discussions in TRF, I can only guess that most probably this is more design issue.

So I guess this can impact all production year (even the newer one) and the wear pattern may influence when the symptoms emerge.


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[HiBoost]

The whole idea behind the Breguet overcoil (which the 32xx has) is that it will maintain more perfect isochronism as the amplitude changes. In other words, at 260 degrees or 200 degrees, it should, in theory, beat at nearly the same rate. The same is not true of a flat hairspring. On my watch, this is panning out thus far. Dial up I am within +/- 2 spd at 265 degrees and also at 195 degrees. But there do seem to be limits. At 165 degrees I'm losing 180 spd :)

Some pretty nice pictures and info here if you guys haven't seen it prior: https://www.rolex.com/content/dam/ro...55_English.pdf

[Michael N Q8]

So, I took more readings and I am convinced that there is something very wrong with this watch. The readings are so ridiculous that they cannot be used meaningfully. What I can rather do is track how it performed against the atomic clock. My conclusion is that it keeps time well for about 40 hours then progressively loses time at an exponential rate. The so called extended reserve is pointless.

After comparing these readings back to back with my SD 4000 (1.3 s/d, 0.3 beat error and 292 amp) I am convinced that I need to take this to the local service center and request a new movement?

[Michael N Q8]

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[Michael N Q8]

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[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I had a Bluesy that held a +4 for 15 years. I really didnt even want to give it its first service at the 15 year mark.

Well,thats exactly where my 2007 Blue TT Sub is at +3 to +4 .

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Just to be clear; I've no reason to believe the validity of any poll on the site. I've run more than a few and am more convinced that a fair number of respondents down own the watches they're responding about and just put an answer they want to see.

Can be,but the percentages are staying very constant .

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by saxo3

I think that's convincing.

.

In this test the old 3130 puts the 3235 to shame .

Going through the data on this very interesting thread ,it seems Rolex created a lot of problems for themselves chasing 72h .
On a self winding movement ,worn daily ,the third day of power reserve is of no practical importance .

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

In this test the old 3130 puts the 3235 to shame .

Going through the data on this very interesting thread ,it seems Rolex created a lot of problems for themselves chasing 72h .
On a self winding movement ,worn daily ,the third day of power reserve is of no practical importance .

Precisely.
That's one aspect I've always been pushing for years.
48 hours is plenty adequate in real terms for someone who wears their watch daily. Especially if it runs more accurately throughout the bulk of it's power reserve.
It's possibly only bettered by a twin barrel set-up as Padi points out.
The only people who benefit from having the 60 hour figure are the ones who take their watch off over the weekend or have so many on rotation that they can use some extra power reserve. Just so it's running when they pick it up again.

I do have a manual wind dress watch with 70 hours power reserve but I wind it once and wear it for a number of hours, then set it aside until I need it again.
Even if i chose to make it a daily wearer, I would wind it fully at the same time every day. So again 70 hours power reserve is superflous in practical terms on that watch.
But it runs better than some which are reported here

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Well,thats exactly where my 2007 Blue TT Sub is at +3 to +4 .

Thank the lord for all the updates which have been applied to that series of movements over the years.
Imagine how great the new ones will be when Rolex finally get around to applying the necessary updates to that one as well.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

.

After comparing these readings back to back with my SD 4000 (1.3 s/d, 0.3 beat error and 292 amp) I am convinced that I need to take this to the local service center and request a new movement?

Like a reviewer said : " Inside is the spectacularly robust caliber 3135 .. "

Since 2004 ,I have nothing but praise for the 3135 .
Very accurate ,for many many years.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Thank the lord for all the updates which have been applied to that series of movements over the years.
Imagine how great the new ones will be when Rolex finally get around to applying the necessary updates to that one as well.

2015-2021 ,well,its about time ! How long do they need ?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

2015-2021 ,well,its about time ! How long do they need ?

Have a little faith baby.
Have a little faith.
Just keep sending out those positive waves

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

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Well I did warn you Michael the use of Timegraphs, phone timing apps, loupes etc, can and will be a Rolex owners worst enemy. And its quite possible that app you are using is giving false information as they are not 100% accurate

[padi56]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Like a reviewer said : " Inside is the spectacularly robust caliber 3135 .. "

Since 2004 ,I have nothing but praise for the 3135 .
Very accurate ,for many many years.

Yes but even that one has had a few problems since its first introduction in 1988 just like the cal 3035 had before it, same for cal 3186, plus the many others over the past 50 odd years, but all rectified over the production years. And as the poll states report if watch amplitude is low (below 200) and timekeeping is off (>5 s/d). Which is a few seconds out of spec, since this new spec was introduced by Rolex. And yes soon after this new spec many posted on forum watch was running 3-4 seconds fast and wanted there watches regulated.

[Michael N Q8]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well I did warn you Michael the use of Timegraphs, phone timing apps, loupes etc, can and will be a Rolex owners worst enemy. And its quite possible that app you are using is giving false information as they are not 100% accurate

You are correct, the app is doing something unexpected, however, I have the watch with me and I have noticed that it has lost a significant amount of time in the last few hours, as it winds down. Its now at -66 seconds, and most of this was this morning.

I am 100% convinced that there is something wrong with it.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

You are correct, the app is doing something unexpected, however, I have the watch with me and I have noticed that it has lost a significant amount of time in the last few hours, as it winds down. Its now at -66 seconds, and most of this was this morning.

I am 100% convinced that there is something wrong with it.

Michael a plain and simple fact all mechanical watches when mainspring is on the lower power-reserve they will start to lose a few seconds. This is why they always run better when mainspring is at peak reserve. I am not saying you might have a problem, but IMHO the problem has escalated and got you more worried because introduction of the timing app.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by padi56

Yes but even that one has had a few problems since its first introduction in 1988 just like the cal 3035 had before it, same for cal 3186, plus the many others over the past 50 odd years, but all rectified over the production years. And as the poll states report if watch amplitude is low (below 200) and timekeeping is off (>5 s/d). Which is a few seconds out of spec, since this new spec was introduced by Rolex. And yes soon after this new spec many posted on forum watch was running 3-4 seconds fast and wanted there watches regulated.

Over the past 20 years the 3135 has been a magnificent movement .
I accept that when it was introduced there were teething problems .

I find it surprising that in its 7th year of production,in modern times (Its not the 80s anymore) ,Rolex cant find a very simple and effective solution to the 3235.

So,if the AD phones for a new LV,imagine the surprise if one rejects the offer and ask for a postponement of the offer for 3 years !

[padi56]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Over the past 20 years the 3135 has been a magnificent movement .
I accept that when it was introduced there were teething problems .

I find it surprising that in its 7th year of production,in modern times (Its not the 80s anymore) ,Rolex cant find a very simple and effective solution to the 3235.

So,if the AD phones for a new LV,imagine the surprise if one rejects the offer and ask for a postponement of the offer for 3 years !

The Rolex Caliber 3235 was officially released at Baselworld 2015 and was first introduced inside the 39mm Pearlmaster so not available till latter part of 2015 so still not 7 years like you quote.As for watches like the SUBs again latter part of 2015 into 2016 so again not 7 years. And the Cal. 3285 first appeared at Baselworld in 2018 in the GMT-Master II,so it was not till the latter part 2018 that any were in the public hands ,so hardly the 7 years for that movement. And with this world wide pandemic like all business it could be harder to fine a solution, thats if they have not already found it.

[Zsprings]

Originally Posted by padi56

The Rolex Caliber 3235 was officially released at Baselworld 2015 and was first introduced inside the 39mm Pearlmaster so not available till latter part of 2015 so still not 7 years like you quote.As for watches like the SUBs again latter part of 2015 into 2016 so again not 7 years. And the Cal. 3285 first appeared at Baselworld in 2018 in the GMT-Master II,so it was not till the latter part 2018 that any were in the public hands ,so hardly the 7 years for that movement. And with this world wide pandemic like all business it could be harder to fine a solution, thats if they have not already found it.

Very helpful information!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Zsprings

Very helpful information!

Easy to find with a few klicks on www.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Easy to find with a few klicks on www.

But like many of the long time members on forum I dont have to click on www, as most of this information is stored on my own brain, without the need of apps timegraphs etc.

[Michael N Q8]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

So,if the AD phones for a new LV,imagine the surprise if one rejects the offer and ask for a postponement of the offer for 3 years !

I have been looking for the new 41mm no date sub...Well no more until this issue is addressed.

[Nicolamilton]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

I have been looking for the new 41mm no date sub...Well no more until this issue is addressed.

I am waiting for a blue 41mm OP, and I think I'll postpone too when I get the call.
On the other hand, very happy I got one of the very last 114060.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

I have been looking for the new 41mm no date sub...Well no more until this issue is addressed.

My Submariner (124060) is running just fine, no issues at all. it is gaining around one second per day.

If I have an issue in the first 10 years of ownership I have a warranty that I can use to get the problem fixed.

If you want the watch, buy it, it going to run just fine, if a problem comes to the fore whilst under warranty you get it fixed free of charge.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

if a problem comes to the fore whilst under warranty you get it fixed free of charge.

Just not permanently it seems (yet)...

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

My Submariner (124060) is running just fine, no issues at all. it is gaining around one second per day.

If I have an issue in the first 10 years of ownership I have a warranty that I can use to get the problem fixed.

If you want the watch, buy it, it going to run just fine, if a problem comes to the fore whilst under warranty you get it fixed free of charge.

Exactly that and many of these cases bet your life have been reported for a few seconds out of so called spec. Knowing Rolex after wearing them for over 50 years, myself would have no problem buying any watch with a 32 series movement.

[HiBoost]

I think the "this is all no big deal" contingent have made their point clear, so I'm not sure we need to hear it 50 times. The rest of us, who are concerned by silly things like an RSC watchmaker literally saying there is no fix yet, or multiple users experiencing the same issue recurring after an RSC service, or brand new watches running well below the factory spec amplitude, will remain unswayed by such, quite frankly, unconvincing lines of thought.

It's a big forum with lots of interesting threads, please don't feel that you have to click on this one if you find us all particularly annoying :)