The Official Formula One Thread!

[SDGT3]

This is from another source but accurate from a historical perspective from his former team principle at McLaren. Personally, I wish we could move on from LH as he is clearly close to being the 2nd driver at Mercedes and there are so many better young drivers to focus on but he garners so much attention given what he has done and how he's fallen from grace. The fact the world feed showed 32 laps of him trying to get by Gasly with and without DRS for 14th place is a testament to the attention he still commands.


If anyone is really curious why so many dislike Hamilton this lays it out to perfection. Lewis is 37 years old and a 7X WDC, Wolfe and those before him have coddled him his entire life and Lewis laps it up as "the victim". If I was Lewis I would be embarrassed by this.

Historical perspective:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/158448...-who-he-is-now

Leading to today:

https://www.gptoday.com/details/view...nd_square8217/

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/moto...fter-imola-low

[enjoythemusic]

It's just entertainment. The TV director decides what's the most entertaining on-track action for the mainstream feed. Click the OK button on the remote and choose another feed, or the specific driver you want to watch. There was some really good action out there on track.

[Speedbird-1]

Can we start a new thread, entitled; Why I think seven times, Formula 1 Champion, Sir Lewis Hamilton, is such a rubbish driver, and why you should all hate him, like I do?

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

Can we start a new thread, entitled; Why I think seven times, Formula 1 Champion, Sir Lewis Hamilton, is such a rubbish driver, and why you should all hate him, like I do?

You have it. It is this one now.

[1st amg]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

You have it. It is this one now.

Yep, and we can have a whole list of ex Formula 1 champions who would also agree entirely. Just saying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by 1st amg

Yep, and we can have a whole list of ex Formula 1 champions who would also agree entirely. Just saying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"a whole list of ex Formula 1 champions who would also agree entirely."

Who are they, and what did they say?

[Goin2drt]

Uh oh the MV fanboys won’t like this article. Even their leader knows how good he is and that it is a car issue.
https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1...stappen-marko/

[1st amg]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

"a whole list of ex Formula 1 champions who would also agree entirely."

Who are they, and what did they say?

Off the top of my head.....Jenson Button, Nico Rosberg, Nigel Mansell, Kimi Raikkonen, Jacques Villeneuve....either they claimed he is overrated, has had the best car in modern history, or more recently that his lack of pace is due to knowing his car can not challenge and therefore has no will or fight. These are all either written in media outlets or they mentioned it on live air. Not going to go through the trouble to find and locate for you Steve today. I am not going to try and vindicate myself with a "he said she said"....we all have our personal feelings and thoughts on LH. Just like in the past when Prost and Senna battled and the controversies were much darker, we all had our own personal thoughts on that as well. Its just sport.

[Goin2drt]

It is funny how all the haters just claim he only won because he was in the best car and he is overrated. Yet Bottas (IN THE SAME CAR) did not win a single Championship. Hell he barely won races. Then MV wins a Championship IN THE BEST CAR yet he is just a great driver. I guess MV and his wins this year so far were just because he was in the best car. He is really overrated and not good good of a driver.

He won 7 championships "F1 racing professionals". You do not win 7 just because you are in the best car. Does the car and team have a lot to do with it, sure but you still have to be the best of the best to win a championship. If all your LH hater logic held true then sh$t hire Gasly, Albon or Bottas to drive your car. They would cost you a lot less then LH, MV and the "top" drivers. Hell if the car means so much and the driver doesn't matter then every year just pull up an F2 driver. You haters just make me laugh. It really is great entertainment.

And the source of my facts is ME. Just as good as all the other opinions on here with ZERO facts.

[drjrhc]

I have to say that “you don’t win just because you have the best car” isn’t entirely accurate.

He didn’t have just the best car. He had the best car of an entire era by leaps and bounds. I mean, until last year, RB barely was able to keep pace. Even then everyone from her to Melbourne was bitching because “Max is too aggressive”. “Max is too reckless”. Max was driving the wheels off his car just to keep pace when he could. Even then almost every trace from 2018-2020 Mercedes were in the lead by 5-10 seconds or more. Only when a mechanical error, or technical driving error were made did others keep up, pass or win.

So, it is naive to think that his car was just superior but VASTLY superior during the previous turbo-hydrid run.

Is he a great driver? Of course. Would he have won 7 championships in a McLaren had he stayed, or even a Red Bull? No way in hell.

Now every Lewis fan is blaming the car, or his age, or his will for him not dominating in this season. I think you are seeing all these things combine to produce the results we are seeing for him.

BUT, his car is 90% of why he isn’t competitive. Just like it was equally as much for him winning his championships with Mercedes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

It is funny how all the haters just claim he only won because he was in the best car and he is overrated. Yet Bottas (IN THE SAME CAR) did not win a single Championship.

(Said calmly as i don't want to step on a flaming bag of dogecoin) Remember Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barichello? Rubens is a heck of a driver, a seriously talented gentleman. Buuuut....

Wish Rubens got more recognition at the time. Ah well, it's F1 and all that.

Maybe there's a desire by some here for spec racing like Ferrari Challenge, the Lambo thing, Porsche thing, Formula Ford, etc. as it means the cars are basically the same. So it is moreso the ability of a (development) driver to help the team fine-tune the 'smaller' bits of the car and of course said driver's talent. Will add luck because imagine you're handily winning a race with a few laps to go when the second gear in your Hewland LD200 decides to 'spaghetti'.

Have you ever suddenly heard the sound of ball bearings in a blender while you're winning a race?

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by drjrhc

I have to say that “you don’t win just because you have the best car” isn’t entirely accurate.

He didn’t have just the best car. He had the best car of an entire era by leaps and bounds. I mean, until last year, RB barely was able to keep pace. Even then everyone from her to Melbourne was bitching because “Max is too aggressive”. “Max is too reckless”. Max was driving the wheels off his car just to keep pace when he could. Even then almost every trace from 2018-2020 Mercedes were in the lead by 5-10 seconds or more. Only when a mechanical error, or technical driving error were made did others keep up, pass or win.

So, it is naive to think that his car was just superior but VASTLY superior during the previous turbo-hydrid run.

Is he a great driver? Of course. Would he have won 7 championships in a McLaren had he stayed, or even a Red Bull? No way in hell.

Now every Lewis fan is blaming the car, or his age, or his will for him not dominating in this season. I think you are seeing all these things combine to produce the results we are seeing for him.

BUT, his car is 90% of why he isn’t competitive. Just like it was equally as much for him winning his championships with Mercedes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And if you know anything about ANY motorsports racing you don't EARN the best equipment, the best team, the best chance at winning unless you are THE BEST at your profession.

So when/IF (big if) MV rattles off a few more Championships lets all remember these fews pages and make sure we don't give him any credit for being that good and only give (I think you stated 90%) of the credit to the car not the driver.

Door swings both ways.

[drjrhc]

Wow, I am so amazed at how triggered people get when challenged.

I am not saying the Lewis isn’t a great driver. But, you are blind or in denial if you don’t see that his car up until last year was leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else.

It wasn’t even competitive. It was almost always a Merc 1-2, especially 2018-2020.

Max has been very aggressively driving his RB for the last two seasons, and probably has a car equal to Ferrari right now or close.

I am not saying Lewis isn’t great. But you can’t use the argument that is wasn’t the car when he was winning, and now is the car when he is losing. Lol. That’s my whole point.

Max is an aggressive driver. George Russell is an aggressive and hungry driver. You can’t deny what George was able to do in Lewis’s car out of a Williams and then deny how amazing the car was. It doesn’t diminish Lewis’s talent. But it is a naive position to discredit how great the equipment was.

I don’t like Lewis for a bunch of reasons. But his attitude this season confirms a lot of them for me. Especially compared to how he is stacking up against George.

But it’s ok to hate on Max, or anyone else if you wish. You’re entitled to your opinion. But I think we will see Max win at least a couple more championships before his time comes to an end. Same with LeClerc, and likely George.

The new regulations are gonna make racing a lot different going forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Speedbird-1]

I might start a poll.
Should Sir Lewis Hamilton apologise for having won seven world championships with the 'best car'?

Yes.
No.
or IDGAF.

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

I might start a poll.
Should Sir Lewis Hamilton apologise for having won seven world championships with the 'best car'?

Yes.
No.
or IDGAF.

Good thing I didn’t have a mouthful of coffee when I read this. Hilarious. I bet you are fun at a party.

[Goin2drt]

@drjrhc I am not triggered. I don’t even like the guy mostly for views off the track. Yes I don’t like MV. Can’t stand him. My point as a fan of tons of different Motorsport is the hate for the guy that won 7 championships and people just want to say it is because of the car. Even if it is 95% of the car again you don’t get the ride if you are not the best. Again since we are saying it is so much the car and the car dominated for so many years then why did the driver in the other car not win one much less seven championships? I suppose next people will say it was team orders or they de-tuned the other car so they could not win again since it isn’t the driver and really just the dominant car.

BTW my fave is Riccardo. Can we change the subject for a few pages and discuss his bonehead move in Italy.

[drjrhc]

Agreed mate.

I don’t think he intended to push Sainz. I truly think he got too much over the curb and it slid him into it.

However, Danny Ric is an amazing driver. He knew better. Especially in the race start conditions.

I have to also admit, I was really surprised it took them nearly half race distance (don’t remember the specific lap) to enable DRS. Especially once slicks were proven to be ok with track conditions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NAVY]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

I might start a poll.
Should Sir Lewis Hamilton apologise for having won seven world championships with the 'best car'?

Yes.
No.
or IDGAF.

Time to give it a break Yes, we know you like LH and no one can dispute he's an excellent driver.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by drjrhc

Wow, I am so amazed at how triggered people get when challenged.

I am not saying the Lewis isn’t a great driver. But, you are blind or in denial if you don’t see that his car up until last year was leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else.

So are you saying that the Red Bull and Ferrari Cars are not the fastest cars atm? Are their drivers so good that they can make average cars faster?

My point being that the manufacturers of the fastest and best cars don't pay for the worst drivers, they pay for the best on their car and their driver. Are we suggesting that Mercedes which has been far and away the best car/team for the last 10 years don't pick the best driver? Are we and those Hamilton haters that constantly point out his deficiencies that we/they know better than Mercedes. Fact is, if there was a better driver for Mercedes, they would have employed him instead of Hamilton. No?

Fact is, the driver is part of the car, a below par car or driver wouldn't have won the drivers world championship 7 times, no matter what the haters say, thats just fact.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by NAVY

Time to give it a break Yes, we know you like LH and no one can dispute he's an excellent driver.

I can't stand him.

Just don't like the hate.

Sir Lewis should start a new movement: 'CRAP CARS MATTER'

[77T]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Have you ever suddenly heard the sound of ball bearings in a blender while you're winning a race?

Most helpless feeling in the world.

Good point - did I hit that kerb too hard too many times? Did I over-rev on a missed downshift? Did I twist the frame or suspension in a collision?

As a driver some blame the team for not giving you a “reliable winning car”. But the driver is key to winning or losing. It is never the car alone.

The crux of this current debate - which is like eating cold leftover bolognese sauce in the AM - is based on myths that anyone could do better in the “same car”.

There is no “same car”…this is how and why one car/driver does better than the other car/driver on the same team. Engineers rely on driver input that wind tunnels, rolling roads, and SIM training doesn’t give them. Set-ups are individual.

You win on Sunday as a team by doing the many days and hours of development and testing at every opportunity. And can communicate by translating the “seat of your pants” feeling into actionable steps to set-up a winning combination.

Some see VET HAM VER ALO RUS, etc. Maybe some dislike the rules or the sponsors or the FIA. But that isn’t the spirit of the sport.

I see a series of advantageous tactical driving and admire the skills, or dislike the errors (RIC into SAI), over a thousand moments packed into one race. That is when you’re a fan of motorsports - and not just a pair of marcomm manipulated eyeballs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by 77T

Most helpless feeling in the world.

Good point - did I hit that kerb too hard too many times? Did I over-rev on a missed downshift? Did I twist the frame or suspension in a collision?

As a driver some blame the team for not giving you a “reliable winning car”. But the driver is key to winning or losing. It is never the car alone.

The crux of this current debate - which is like eating cold leftover bolognese sauce in the AM - is based on myths that anyone could do better in the “same car”.

There is no “same car”…this is how and why one car/driver does better than the other car/driver on the same team. Engineers rely on driver input that wind tunnels, rolling roads, and SIM training doesn’t give them. Set-ups are individual.

You win on Sunday as a team by doing the many days and hours of development and testing at every opportunity. And can communicate by translating the “seat of your pants” feeling into actionable steps to set-up a winning combination.

Some see VET HAM VER ALO RUS, etc. Maybe some dislike the rules or the sponsors or the FIA. But that isn’t the spirit of the sport.

I see a series of advantageous tactical driving and admire the skills, or dislike the errors (RIC into SAI), over a thousand moments packed into one race. That is when you’re a fan of motorsports - and not just a pair of marcomm manipulated eyeballs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Wise words, O Great One, wise words, indeed.

[Goin2drt]

@77t

Please don’t bring that nonsense logic and Motorsport fact around here. Don’t you know this is a LH hater thread and the only way he won 7 championships is because he was in a far superior car that drove itself to victory.

This is no place for a post like yours

[drjrhc]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by 77T

Most helpless feeling in the world. <big snip to save space>

Yeah, it is.

Great post by 77T!

(Much Humor) But really, how dare you use logic!

HOW DARE YOU!!

<insert pic of angry-face Greta Thunberg here, yet not posting pic as that might trigger others>

-------
-------

Honestly and with sincerity gentlemen, i think the guys arguing here need to watch spec racing instead of F1. Then it's not as much the car as it is the team and driver. Then you can have a 'better argument' over which driver has more talent. jmho

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by drjrhc

Agreed mate.

I don’t think he intended to push Sainz. I truly think he got too much over the curb and it slid him into it.

However, Danny Ric is an amazing driver. He knew better. Especially in the race start conditions.

I have to also admit, I was really surprised it took them nearly half race distance (don’t remember the specific lap) to enable DRS. Especially once slicks were proven to be ok with track conditions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah this race sucked as my wife is a Sainz fan. Bummer for us. I was really surprised on the DRS delay as well. I did find myself very happy for Norris and I am beginning to have a fancy for Russell. I would love to see him start battling at the top.

I don't know if I really liked this race or really hated this race with only one DRS zone. It made the racing tight but then again the drivers and cars are all so good that it also made for not a lot of passing action at least on the ESPN feed we watched on.

For us we are fans of the action before really even having our favorites win (tough since they never win) so for me I like the tight racing and would rather see passes being made with ballzy attempts on the outside of turns etc rather than just blasting by on a straight. To us that is boring racing.

[drjrhc]

Honestly, I would rather see tight racing over one or two people always competing.

I love the idea of how these new cars and rules are allowing more highly competitive racing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[yoast]

This has got to be one of the most entertaining threads here.

You guys get so aggressive defending your favourite driver

[1st amg]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

It is funny how all the haters just claim he only won because he was in the best car and he is overrated. Yet Bottas (IN THE SAME CAR) did not win a single Championship. Hell he barely won races. Then MV wins a Championship IN THE BEST CAR yet he is just a great driver. I guess MV and his wins this year so far were just because he was in the best car. He is really overrated and not good good of a driver.

He won 7 championships "F1 racing professionals". You do not win 7 just because you are in the best car. Does the car and team have a lot to do with it, sure but you still have to be the best of the best to win a championship. If all your LH hater logic held true then sh$t hire Gasly, Albon or Bottas to drive your car. They would cost you a lot less then LH, MV and the "top" drivers. Hell if the car means so much and the driver doesn't matter then every year just pull up an F2 driver. You haters just make me laugh. It really is great entertainment.

And the source of my facts is ME. Just as good as all the other opinions on here with ZERO facts.

To be clear, I am not a MV fan, I just enjoyed him stealing the title. I am a fan of all drivers, just not a fan of LH and his obvious sniveling and crying. But your right! Excellent entertainment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by 1st amg

Off the top of my head.....Jenson Button, Nico Rosberg, Nigel Mansell, Kimi Raikkonen, Jacques Villeneuve....either they claimed he is overrated, has had the best car in modern history, or more recently that his lack of pace is due to knowing his car can not challenge and therefore has no will or fight. These are all either written in media outlets or they mentioned it on live air. Not going to go through the trouble to find and locate for you Steve today. I am not going to try and vindicate myself with a "he said she said"....we all have our personal feelings and thoughts on LH. Just like in the past when Prost and Senna battled and the controversies were much darker, we all had our own personal thoughts on that as well. Its just sport.

We can add current F1 drivers Fernando Alonso and Max Verstappen who have said that Lewis (had) the best car in previous years and accounts for the titles.

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

It is funny how all the haters just claim he only won because he was in the best car and he is overrated. Yet Bottas (IN THE SAME CAR) did not win a single Championship. Hell he barely won races. Then MV wins a Championship IN THE BEST CAR yet he is just a great driver. I guess MV and his wins this year so far were just because he was in the best car. He is really overrated and not good good of a driver.

He won 7 championships "F1 racing professionals". You do not win 7 just because you are in the best car. Does the car and team have a lot to do with it, sure but you still have to be the best of the best to win a championship. If all your LH hater logic held true then sh$t hire Gasly, Albon or Bottas to drive your car. They would cost you a lot less then LH, MV and the "top" drivers. Hell if the car means so much and the driver doesn't matter then every year just pull up an F2 driver. You haters just make me laugh. It really is great entertainment.

And the source of my facts is ME. Just as good as all the other opinions on here with ZERO facts.

No one is claiming Bottas or Rosberg is as good or better than Hamilton, but LH wasn't racing a grid of F1 professionals, he was always ONLY racing his teammate because the Mercedes was that good and whomever the 2nd driver was in that Mercedes was that much faster than the field. But don't take my word for it, here's a little clip from what Tony Kaanan, Indy 500 said about Lewis:

https://wtf1.com/post/tony-kanaan-re...dy-500-speech/

It is statistically factual that the Mercedes hybrid era F1 car is the most dominant in the history of F1. Look it up.

Originally Posted by drjrhc

I have to say that “you don’t win just because you have the best car” isn’t entirely accurate.

He didn’t have just the best car. He had the best car of an entire era by leaps and bounds. I mean, until last year, RB barely was able to keep pace. Even then everyone from her to Melbourne was bitching because “Max is too aggressive”. “Max is too reckless”. Max was driving the wheels off his car just to keep pace when he could. Even then almost every trace from 2018-2020 Mercedes were in the lead by 5-10 seconds or more. Only when a mechanical error, or technical driving error were made did others keep up, pass or win.

So, it is naive to think that his car was just superior but VASTLY superior during the previous turbo-hydrid run.

Is he a great driver? Of course. Would he have won 7 championships in a McLaren had he stayed, or even a Red Bull? No way in hell.

Now every Lewis fan is blaming the car, or his age, or his will for him not dominating in this season. I think you are seeing all these things combine to produce the results we are seeing for him.

BUT, his car is 90% of why he isn’t competitive. Just like it was equally as much for him winning his championships with Mercedes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not only that Hamilton doesn't have the most dominant car, but he hasn't driven a car that isn't top shelf. He doesn't know how to drive around a problem and we're seeing that in Russell's performance where he has been stuck in a Williams for 3 years and is extracting the most out of this car.

You know it's funny how the Hamilton apologists get bent out of shape when the truth is presented in front of them but the fact of the matter is that the Mercedes is the 3rd best car on the grid, not a back marker and Russell is the only driver on the entire grid that has finished in the top 5 this year. Couple this with Lewis' weak mentality (Nico Rosberg's quote, not mine) and you have what you have right now.

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

And if you know anything about ANY motorsports racing you don't EARN the best equipment, the best team, the best chance at winning unless you are THE BEST at your profession.

So when/IF (big if) MV rattles off a few more Championships lets all remember these fews pages and make sure we don't give him any credit for being that good and only give (I think you stated 90%) of the credit to the car not the driver.

Door swings both ways.

If you know anything about motorsports you would know that Lewis walked into the McLaren garage as a rookie and into the best situation/car as he was groomed from an early age. He did not develop that car in an era of in season testing because new drivers were not allowed to drive the car before Jan 1. He walked into the current Mercedes garage after Schumacher and Rosberg but mostly the Mercedes engineers developed the car in a transition to a no in season testing era.

Compare and contrast how Schumacher left a 2 time championship team in Benetton and went to a Ferrari team that hadn't won a championship in over 16 years. It took them 5 years to win a championship after building up the team with personnel, (Todt, Brawn and company) and a car that had his finger prints all over it, again, in an era of in season testing.

I love the debate and back and forth. We can start another thread or continue on here, doesn't matter to me.