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Old 5 September 2022, 12:08 AM   #4231
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Isn't Alpha Tauri owned by Red Bull? That was a fortunate safety car for Max. Wink wink.
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Old 5 September 2022, 12:14 AM   #4232
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Isn't Alpha Tauri owned by Red Bull? That was a fortunate safety car for Max. Wink wink.

I try not to play conspiracy theory games. This one seems a bit to obvious. I guess they stopped paying off Latifi for these situations lol.
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Old 5 September 2022, 12:18 AM   #4233
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Isn't Alpha Tauri owned by Red Bull? That was a fortunate safety car for Max. Wink wink.

Mer put the call into and old friend !


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Old 5 September 2022, 12:25 AM   #4234
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Oh my!! This is getting....... interesting at lap 60
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Old 5 September 2022, 12:35 AM   #4235
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Leaving tire gun out... discuss.

Will be decided after the race…

For discussion’s sake:

What does the rule book say?
How would you apply it ?

Would have been different if it was a person standing on that very spot with back to the Red Bull pit spot?

Would have been different if it was a Ferrari rear wing on that very spot?

If unsafe, what would the penalty be to Ferrari? If fault lay with RedBull, same question…


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Old 5 September 2022, 12:38 AM   #4236
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It has been a fabulously exciting race.
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Old 5 September 2022, 01:16 AM   #4237
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Suc*eria Ferrari... they mixed up the league again.

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Old 5 September 2022, 01:28 AM   #4238
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And the drama continues with lots of fun story lines....Ferrari butchering again with the unsafe release, Toto's poster boy blowing a gasket, and a little turmoil in the Mercedes camp, Mick losing lots of opportunities and his future continues to be a big question mark. This season is continuing to add lots of great reading material!
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Old 5 September 2022, 02:11 AM   #4239
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classlessness Exhibited once again.
when will the madness end.
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Old 5 September 2022, 02:37 AM   #4240
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Will be decided after the race…

For discussion’s sake:

What does the rule book say?
How would you apply it ?
Excellent questions, tho my fear is what if that becomes the norm to 'tighten' the team's pit before yours exit?
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Old 5 September 2022, 02:47 AM   #4241
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Old 5 September 2022, 03:30 AM   #4242
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The Official Formula One Thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by enjoythemusic View Post
Excellent questions, tho my fear is what if that becomes the norm to 'tighten' the team's pit before yours exit?

In both separate pit lane infringement incidents with wheel gun and air hose - no further action. (PER, SAI)

“The Stewards took into consideration the configuration of the (Zandvoort) pit lane which is particularly short and thus decide not to take any further action.”






The unsafe release for SAI in front of ALO was another matter.

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Old 5 September 2022, 03:40 AM   #4243
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Is this what you are referring to when you posted about classlessness?

Have you not heard Max lose his mind on the radio?


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Old 5 September 2022, 05:11 AM   #4244
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A fair ruling on the pit thing, good call.
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Old 5 September 2022, 05:28 AM   #4245
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Isn't Alpha Tauri owned by Red Bull? That was a fortunate safety car for Max. Wink wink.
Yep....smelly, very, very smelly.
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Old 5 September 2022, 05:49 AM   #4246
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Without the SCs, Verstappen could easily have won, and the Ferrari drivers would not have stood on the podium. So IMO if anyone has Yuki to thank for this incident, it's Leclerc and Ferrari.
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Old 5 September 2022, 07:18 AM   #4247
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Without the SCs, Verstappen could easily have won,
Not sure that's entirely accurate.



They, (Alpha Tauri) had more than one go at creating a SC to suit VER too.
That spin in the final minutes of Q3 was very convenient wasn't it.
It's good though, it shows RB are worried, and now, they've shown their hand.
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Old 5 September 2022, 01:50 PM   #4248
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Where to start??

Ferrari? 3 of 4 tires in pit lane... That's a new one. In defense of Ferrari though, I did not think Sainz release was "unsafe". I looked at the video 4 times and the McLaren rear Jackman comes out right in front of him and he has to make an evasive hard left to avoid him which slowed his getaway. 5 seconds was harsh and the FIA not fining Ferrari seems to show that - but you can't take back the penalty after it's been imposed.

I understand this board is Brit-centric but the biases are coming out when something like today happens. All I hear is conspiracy theories but did no one notice this was an exact replay of Abu Dhabi? Mercedes elected to keep track position which gives everyone behind the leader REGARDLESS OF WHO IS LEADING the option to pit or not. Nearly everyone pit. Russell called for his own tires. That's taking your consequences into your own hands.

Second, why did Lewis not take his restart all the way to start finish line instead of where he did and give Max a tow all the way around the last corner to the 1st corner? That is elementary race craft but again, Lewis hasn't needed racecraft for the better part of 10 years so it may seem foreign to him.

Third, it's been confirmed Tsunoda had a broken rear diff. A driver feels something is wrong with the car better than all the sensors monitored on pit wall. He thought it was a loose wheel, stopped and upbuckled his belts as he thought he was getting out. The team told him to come in, and he did a slow lap in knowing his belts were loose. He comes in for a tire change, belt strap and off again. Again, he says something is wrong with the car. With a 100+ point gap, Max needs no help from Tsunoda or anyone else to interfere in a race.

Was it me or did I hear Lewis saying how rude Fernando was last week with his radio message about him? The truth comes out in the heat of the moment and both Fernando's true feelings and Hamilton's vulgarity laden tirade toward his own team came out. All the PR afterwards with photos and spin will never change that. He has absolutely no class. Can you imagine the things that would fly out of his mouth if he were a Ferrari driver being screwed over by team strategy every weekend?

Finally, Lewis' dirty little move over on his teammate when he was passing didn't go unnoticed. Russell had to back out of the throttle to avoid hitting him but George will never say anything because he's in his first year. If the rolls were reversed, we surely would hear about it from both Lewis and Toto. Lewis is who we thought he has always been. It's not going to change.
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Old 5 September 2022, 03:48 PM   #4249
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That's good, it shows that RB is concerned and now their hands have been shown.
Why would RB worry? Mercedes is not an opponent for them this year. Now a Mercedes 2-3 or even a Mercedes 1-2 would further increase their extreme lead over Ferrari. To be honest, I don't think the question is whether RB/Verstappen will win the championships this year, but whether Ferrari will be able to finish 2nd in at least one of the championships?

From this aspect, Verstappen had ~10 second advantage before SC1 and SC2 and he unquestionable led the race from the very beginning. That's why I think that it wasn't RB that benefited from the SCs, but Ferrari, since without SC1 and mostly SC2, they wouldn't have had a chance to stand on the podium, because they were so far away even from the two Mercedeses.
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Old 5 September 2022, 03:57 PM   #4250
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Ricciardo was a poorly 17th unable to do anything to improve his starting position during the course of 74 laps.

He's done, gone, finished kaput!

Hopefully Oscar Piastri can restore just a tiny bit of national pride with his debut season in 2023 and wipe away the embarrassment of the last 5 years.
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Old 5 September 2022, 04:14 PM   #4251
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I also did not understand Mercedes not coming in and LH giving MV a tow.
Not the smartest move.

Exciting race and Hannah did it right again
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Old 5 September 2022, 09:53 PM   #4252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGT3 View Post
Where to start??

Ferrari? 3 of 4 tires in pit lane... That's a new one. In defense of Ferrari though, I did not think Sainz release was "unsafe". I looked at the video 4 times and the McLaren rear Jackman comes out right in front of him and he has to make an evasive hard left to avoid him which slowed his getaway. 5 seconds was harsh and the FIA not fining Ferrari seems to show that - but you can't take back the penalty after it's been imposed.

I understand this board is Brit-centric but the biases are coming out when something like today happens. All I hear is conspiracy theories but did no one notice this was an exact replay of Abu Dhabi? Mercedes elected to keep track position which gives everyone behind the leader REGARDLESS OF WHO IS LEADING the option to pit or not. Nearly everyone pit. Russell called for his own tires. That's taking your consequences into your own hands.

Second, why did Lewis not take his restart all the way to start finish line instead of where he did and give Max a tow all the way around the last corner to the 1st corner? That is elementary race craft but again, Lewis hasn't needed racecraft for the better part of 10 years so it may seem foreign to him.

Third, it's been confirmed Tsunoda had a broken rear diff. A driver feels something is wrong with the car better than all the sensors monitored on pit wall. He thought it was a loose wheel, stopped and upbuckled his belts as he thought he was getting out. The team told him to come in, and he did a slow lap in knowing his belts were loose. He comes in for a tire change, belt strap and off again. Again, he says something is wrong with the car. With a 100+ point gap, Max needs no help from Tsunoda or anyone else to interfere in a race.

Was it me or did I hear Lewis saying how rude Fernando was last week with his radio message about him? The truth comes out in the heat of the moment and both Fernando's true feelings and Hamilton's vulgarity laden tirade toward his own team came out. All the PR afterwards with photos and spin will never change that. He has absolutely no class. Can you imagine the things that would fly out of his mouth if he were a Ferrari driver being screwed over by team strategy every weekend?

Finally, Lewis' dirty little move over on his teammate when he was passing didn't go unnoticed. Russell had to back out of the throttle to avoid hitting him but George will never say anything because he's in his first year. If the rolls were reversed, we surely would hear about it from both Lewis and Toto. Lewis is who we thought he has always been. It's not going to change.
I agree with everything here....LH has once again been vindicated that without the best car in the series, he cannot race. Fernando and other world champions have stated this more than once over the last number of years, which I pointed out some time ago here. But that went over like a lead balloon with the LH lovers/band wagoneers. He has been gifted championships with the cars he has been piloting. Either way, I am loving the full flow of true colors coming out from the sir Lewis.
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Old 5 September 2022, 09:57 PM   #4253
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I agree with everything here....LH has once again been vindicated that without the best car in the series, he cannot race. Fernando and other world champions have stated this more than once over the last number of years, which I pointed out some time ago here. But that went over like a lead balloon with the LH lovers/band wagoneers. He has been gifted championships with the cars he has been piloting. Either way, I am loving the full flow of true colors coming out from the sir Lewis.

Yes. All of this.


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Old 5 September 2022, 10:33 PM   #4254
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"Checo is a legend" and not HAM:



He won the 1st championship for Max.
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Old 5 September 2022, 11:04 PM   #4255
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5 seconds was harsh and the FIA not fining Ferrari seems to show that - but you can't take back the penalty after it's been imposed.
5 sec. during a race is now standard for unsafe releases. Fines are standard for Practice and Qually unsafe releases unless there is a collision.

I agree with your overall analysis that the release itself wasn’t SAI’s sole fault. The McLaren jackman had a part to play. The decision on safeness is very contextual and opinions may vary. So I’m not debating that - just sharing why it is now 5 sec.

After the 2019 German GP, the Constructors and Competitors unanimously demanded a change after another incident in pitlane during that race.

They demanded time penalties as the punishment for unsafe releases during a race - and the FIA accepted the concerns.

After that, fines were replaced with 5 sec. for unsafe releases during a race.

So hopefully this provides the background of why the penalty is 5 sec.


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Old 5 September 2022, 11:23 PM   #4256
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Ferrari? 3 of 4 tires in pit lane...
First, excellent post overall! Bravo!

So.... But will Ferrari fire someone? You know, actually DO something about this ongoing problem. It was quite embarrassing on the world stage that is F1.

Quote:
All I hear is conspiracy theories but did no one notice this was an exact replay of Abu Dhabi?
It seems nowadays everyone has the memory of.... and will admit i forgot until you mentioned it so am just as guilty. Then again am not being paid millions and only have to focus on an F1 team.

Quote:
Second, why did Lewis not take his restart all the way to start finish line....
Because he's really not that great with race strategy, or passing smartly the talented drivers like ALO. This year the more i see HAM in ACTIVE situations where he has to think at the spur of the moment critically, he fails more than succeeds. This is where experienced and smart drivers like ALO reign supreme imho.

Quote:
The truth comes out in the heat of the moment and both Fernando's true feelings and Hamilton's vulgarity laden tirade toward his own team came out.
i keep saying this, HAM should have been smart and retired at the end of last season. Alas, he may have done permanent damage to his potential future earnings and, far far far more important, potential influencial 'power' in social matters. Tirades like that can come back to bite ya.

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Finally, Lewis' dirty little move over on his teammate when he was passing didn't go unnoticed.
Well said. See my reply above.

But all-in-all it was an entertaining race, operated very fairly by the officials.

i look forward to HAM's retirement at the end of this season, or stick with it boy as it'll be interesting watching HAM possibly implode spectacularly next year. What amazes me is that HAM did surprisingly well in handling things after the very end of the final race last season (thanks in part to his dad's emotional support)... but then HAM knackered it all up this year.

jmho
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Old 6 September 2022, 01:10 AM   #4257
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Where to start??

Ferrari? 3 of 4 tires in pit lane... That's a new one. In defense of Ferrari though, I did not think Sainz release was "unsafe". I looked at the video 4 times and the McLaren rear Jackman comes out right in front of him and he has to make an evasive hard left to avoid him which slowed his getaway. 5 seconds was harsh and the FIA not fining Ferrari seems to show that - but you can't take back the penalty after it's been imposed.

I understand this board is Brit-centric but the biases are coming out when something like today happens. All I hear is conspiracy theories but did no one notice this was an exact replay of Abu Dhabi? Mercedes elected to keep track position which gives everyone behind the leader REGARDLESS OF WHO IS LEADING the option to pit or not. Nearly everyone pit. Russell called for his own tires. That's taking your consequences into your own hands.

Second, why did Lewis not take his restart all the way to start finish line instead of where he did and give Max a tow all the way around the last corner to the 1st corner? That is elementary race craft but again, Lewis hasn't needed racecraft for the better part of 10 years so it may seem foreign to him.

Third, it's been confirmed Tsunoda had a broken rear diff. A driver feels something is wrong with the car better than all the sensors monitored on pit wall. He thought it was a loose wheel, stopped and upbuckled his belts as he thought he was getting out. The team told him to come in, and he did a slow lap in knowing his belts were loose. He comes in for a tire change, belt strap and off again. Again, he says something is wrong with the car. With a 100+ point gap, Max needs no help from Tsunoda or anyone else to interfere in a race.

Was it me or did I hear Lewis saying how rude Fernando was last week with his radio message about him? The truth comes out in the heat of the moment and both Fernando's true feelings and Hamilton's vulgarity laden tirade toward his own team came out. All the PR afterwards with photos and spin will never change that. He has absolutely no class. Can you imagine the things that would fly out of his mouth if he were a Ferrari driver being screwed over by team strategy every weekend?

Finally, Lewis' dirty little move over on his teammate when he was passing didn't go unnoticed. Russell had to back out of the throttle to avoid hitting him but George will never say anything because he's in his first year. If the rolls were reversed, we surely would hear about it from both Lewis and Toto. Lewis is who we thought he has always been. It's not going to change.
Great summation.

The safety car was really a nonissue, as Max would have, in all likelihood, overtaken Hamilton. He was faster than everyone else on the track in Zandvoort, and as good as George Russell is (he was a great pick for Mercedes), he's not the driver Max is (yet).

I don't usually pay attention to the comments drivers make out of frustration on the track. That's normal, and we all say things in the heat of the moment. Besides, Hamilton was right to be furious with his team's tire decision. This makes Russell's move to choose soft tires even more impressive.

Of course, Alonso's comment last week about Hamilton not knowing how to drive unless he's in the lead was priceless. It will go down as one of the most revealing things any driver has said about Lewis, and Russell learned precisely how accurate that was yesterday. Reminded me of
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Old 6 September 2022, 06:36 AM   #4258
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ja.../10363994/amp/

Yes more fun!! He may have a thing or two to say about LH!!


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Old 6 September 2022, 09:22 AM   #4259
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It's one thing to have fans or pundits speculate on conspiracy theories, but when a high profile team principal such as Toto Wolff, who holds a great deal of gravitas in the sport, calls into question the motives of another team without any evidence, it really over steps the line of sportsmanship and decency.


September 5, 2022 Statement Release:

ALPHATAURI DEFENDS PLOTIC ASSUMPTION
"It's incredibly disheartening to read the language and comments directed at our team and Red Bull Racing's manager of strategy, Hannah Schmitz."
Such hateful behaviour cannot be tolerated and the allegations of dirty play are unacceptable, false and completely disrespectful to us and Hannah.
We have always raced independently, correctly and with the highest levels of respect and sportsmanship”.
Yuki had a glitch that the team didn't detect immediately and caused him to be arrested on the track. To suggest anything different is offensive and categorically wrong".
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Old 6 September 2022, 12:14 PM   #4260
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…it was bizarre.

TSU initially pulled over reporting a wheel was loose. Unknown to anyone at the time, he loosened his shoulder belts. (See below)

Then he continues very very slowly, eventually returning to the pitlane.

Then a strange stop while tires refitted and two mechanics cinch down the shoulder belts.

Then he was sent out again and finally some engineer realizes it’s a diff issue and orders him to stop.

While I understand the cyber warriors shouldn’t target one Red Bull person - Alpha Tauri’s actions dealt a very suspicious set of cards.




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