The Official Formula One Thread!

[77T]

All this chewing on 4 day old bread…when there’s fresh meat on the table?

Did Ferrari cheat (er, take an unfair advantage) with the cars to lock out the top spots? What happened to RBR & MB?

https://amp.formula1.com/en/latest/a...QF4gOALAY.html

https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/new...f1-team-debuts

https://www.crash.net/f1/results/101...nd-day-results

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s.../10403765/amp/

https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-liv...bu-dhabi-test/

https://the-race.com/formula-1/every...1-test-so-far/


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[jatco]

Originally Posted by 77T

All this yammering about 4 day old bread…when there’s fresh meat on the table?
.
/[/url]


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...Oh..!! I thought that when you were referring to 'fresh meat on the table' you were referring to 'Thanksgiving' preparations...

[77T]

Well there was probably some turkey involved


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by 77T

Well there was probably some turkey involved

Omg rofl

[INC]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

The "evidence" matches that of a mistake, and a deliberate crash.

I didn't wrote that he wanted to crash! I think he just wanted to spin a little bit and then get back on the track and continue the lap. In that case, he would have been able to say "sorry" and that would have been all, as he would have only slowed the others down, but the event would not have stopped.

What he didn't consider was that the wall was too close to do this.

Take your pick. Verstappen fans say it was deliberate.

In contrary. It's seems to be the opinion of the ones who can't stand VER at all.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by INC

I think he just wanted to spin a little bit and then get back on the track and continue the lap. In that case, he would have been able to say "sorry" and that would have been all, as he would have only slowed the others down, but the event would not have stopped.

What he didn't consider was that the wall was too close to do this.

How can you claim to know what he was thinking? Are you some sort of mind-reader? Is it impossible for the crash to have been accidental?

[Speedbird-1]

This is all getting a tad tedious.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

This is all getting a tad tedious.

Other threads are available.

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

The "evidence" matches that of a mistake, and a deliberate crash. Take your pick. Verstappen fans say it was deliberate.

Many F1 drivers and former drivers have commented on the evidence/data to support it being deliberate. Checo's only mistake is that he let allowed it to happen. The why is up to him to say.

[INC]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

How can you claim to know what he was thinking? Are you some sort of mind-reader? Is it impossible for the crash to have been accidental?

Sorry, but I'm not interested in a conversation in this style. Have a nice day, I have nothing more to add to what I already wrote.

[77T]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

Many F1 drivers and former drivers have commented on the evidence/data to support it being deliberate. Checo's only mistake is that he let allowed it to happen. The why is up to him to say.

Ahhh…Monaco…the gift that keeps on giving…

Another angle- https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/63681370


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[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by INC

Sorry, but I'm not interested in a conversation in this style. Have a nice day, I have nothing more to add to what I already wrote.

I understand, it was a very difficult question for you to handle.

Perez has won a place in a leading F1 team, the absolute pinnacle of motorsport, and a position most people would give their back teeth to occupy.

I'm not saying it's 100% impossible for him to have deliberately crashed his team's (15 million dollar) car into the barriers, whilst under the scrutiny of team telemetry, I just think that it's extremely unlikely (and appallingly entitled) after what they have done for him.

Therefore, I don't think Perez binned the $15M car deliberately.

[77T]

Before we go hanging a medal on PER “won a seat” let’s be clear about how he got to Red Bull.

PER was dumped from Racing Point during the 2020 season with races still to be run - for VET. (He still had 2 years to run on his contract.)

Couldn’t ink a deal - and had no spot on the grid for 2021.

Enter Carlos Slim a few days after the season ended.

Voila, PER is rescued by Red Bull to replace ALB. “Perfect fit” as 2nd driver for VER in their 2021 line-up.

Don’t have a dog in this hunt but let’s be real about the way it happened.


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[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by 77T

Don’t have a dog in this hunt but let’s be real about the way it happened.

Does it matter how it happened? Do you think someone in his privileged position, no matter how he got to that position, is really going to jeopardise that role by ramming his car into the barriers deliberately whilst his every move in the cockpit is being monitored by the car's owners?

And if he actually did crash deliberately, why wouldn't he be fired on the spot by RBR? He'd be pretty much unemployable in motorsport after doing something like that.

I don't think it's a credible narrative.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by SearChart

No, I'm aware of it. But as a grown man I prefer not to whine and talk trash about people online.

I don't know how to drive an F1 car so my opinion is probably not relevant here.

Hi Bas,

I noticed that you hadn’t posted for a while and hoped that all was well.

I agree with your post but if driving a F1 car was required for an opinion there would be zero posts on this thread.

Paul contributes a lot to this thread with the research he does and the information he gives us.

Most of the other poster’s opinions are welcome as far as I am concerned but some of us do bang on.

F1 racing is just entertainment now and usually the team with the most money wins or, more recently, with the assistance of the safety car.

See, I’m banging on again.

But these guys are the best drivers in the world and most of us on the forum would be happy just to finish a warm up lap.

E.

[jatco]

Originally Posted by Andad

Hi Bas,

I noticed that you hadn’t posted for a while and hoped that all was well.

I agree with your post but if driving a F1 car was required for an opinion there would be zero posts on this thread.

Paul contributes a lot to this thread with the research he does and the information he gives us.

Most of the other poster’s opinions are welcome as far as I am concerned but some of us do bang on.

F1 racing is just entertainment now and usually the team with the most money wins or, more recently, with the assistance of the safety car.

See, I’m banging on again.

But these guys are the best drivers in the world and most of us on the forum would be happy just to finish a warm up lap.

E.

X2 Well put.

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

And if he actually did crash deliberately, why wouldn't he be fired on the spot by RBR? He'd be pretty much unemployable in motorsport after doing something like that.

I don't think it's a credible narrative.

Ok, I'll play along. Who would Red Bull have put in the driver's seat after Monaco if they had fired Perez? Did anyone know the name of the 3rd driver for RBR? I didn't and still don't. Not a way to win both the driver's and constructor's championship trophies. For 2023 I know the name is Daniel Ricciardo and any slip up from Perez and he'll be replaced.

From what I read a couple weeks ago, the FIA must receive a formal complaint to investigate Monaco. Toto was asked if he would file and he said he had no interest as it didn't affect their team. No comment from Ferrari.

As far as being unemployable there's plenty of examples of very talented people getting a job once fired for similar stunts. The most recent that comes to mind is Mavrick Vinales who rode for the factory Yamaha team in MotoGP and blew up the engine by running 1 gear lower on straights and over reving the engine while clutch was pulled in. Yamaha fired him immediately. The factory Aprilla team picked him up and became their rider soon thereafter. It's no different in the stick and ball sports. If you have talent, you're still employable.

[rolexpatek363]

I'm just an old-fashioned guy who would tend to lose the place if someone deliberately crashed my car. Especially by backing it in and risking totalling the gearbox. And my car isn't worth $15M!

AFAIK, RBR recently extended Perez' contract to another two seasons, so I'm guessing he's not out of favour with the team. I think he was just trying for a faster time, and futzed-up. When the choice is cock-up vs conspiracy, cock-up is way more commonly observed.

[SDGT3]

Interesting documentary coming out next month.

From the makers of "Senna" comes a new 8 episode series called "Lucky" featuring former F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone and his story of how the sport grew.

It will premiere on December 27 on Warner Bros Discover.

[77T]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

From what I read a couple weeks ago, the FIA must receive a formal complaint to investigate Monaco.

I also saw that, and the interview with the FIA President. That was the article I posted earlier.

In looking at the FIA International Sporting Code, and the F1 Regulations, I find no procedure for an investigation of PER’s Q3 session incident at Monaco. The time limits expired long ago for an incident on-track.

As for the incident on its own merit, during the Q3 session, the Race Director did not refer it to the Stewards.

Even after the session, the Stewards did not deem an investigation was necessary. The grounds could have been impeding another driver.

BTW, neither the RD nor the Stewards were shy about investigating impeding incidents that weekend.
- PER had already collected a formal warning in FP3 for impeding RUS + RBR was fined €10,000 for it.
- SAI was reprimanded for impeding STR + a €25,000 fine for Ferrari in an unrelated FP3 incident. (grossly incorrect messages by radio aggravated the fine amount)
- ZHO had a formal warning in FP3 for impeding VER + Alfa was fined €10,000 for it.

Ferrari had grounds, and SAI had standing, to file a Protest after Q3 since he collided with PER’s car at the corner where it was blocking the track after coming to rest.

Ferrari did not file a Protest for that incident - but after the race on Sunday they Protested both VER & PER for crossing the blend line. That shows Ferrari isn’t shy about throwing paper when they feel wronged.

It would be a stretch, but someone might file a claim under Article 10 of Appendix M (Manipulation of Competitions). If you like reading regs., here’s a link: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi..._marked_up.pdf

I say a stretch because one would need to prove PER did it intentionally to gain an advantage (i.e., starting ahead of VER in the final grid). The language is fairly tight:
“ARTICLE 10 - DEFINITIONS
Manipulation of Competitions: an arrangement, act or intentional omission aimed at improperly altering the result or running of a Competition in order to remove all or part of the unpredictable nature of said Competition, aiming to obtain an undue advantage for oneself or others.”

Manipulations can be heard at any time credible, probable cause evidence arises showing a past competition was rigged. As you can imagine, sports betting - including prop bets on pole position - can create incentives to alter a grid sheet.


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[INC]

Originally Posted by 77T

Ferrari had grounds, and SAI had standing, to file a Protest after Q3 since he collided with PER’s car at the corner where it was blocking the track after coming to rest.

So true, they had a right, but why the hell would they complain? That's how they got P1 and P2, and exactly because of what Perez did! The other teams didn't even had a chance to get close to them, so only RBR would have been filed a complaint against their own pilot.

This means in short, that of course, no one complained either then or since, since everyone except VER just won with Perez's "action". Including himself.

[77T]

Originally Posted by INC

So true, they had a right, but why the hell would they complain? That's how they got P1 and P2, and exactly because of what Perez did! The other teams didn't even had a chance to get close to them, so only RBR would have been filed a complaint against their own pilot.

This means in short, that of course, no one complained either then or since, since everyone except VER just won with Perez's "action". Including himself.

You are correct, no team came forward with a Protest. The records are clear.

I simply explained the process and procedures used. It provides context for the stories about a new investigation circulating in some circles.

The reason I stated SAI had standing should be intuitively obvious in the Final Grid - he lost the opportunity to be P1. Naturally, Ferrari had no motive then, nor now, to raise a ruckus.


For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t advocate for either side of this debate.


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[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by INC

... exactly because of what Perez did! The other teams didn't even had a chance to get close to them, so only RBR would have been filed a complaint against their own pilot.

This means in short, that of course, no one complained either then or since, since everyone except VER just won with Perez's "action". Including himself.

Poor old Max, always the victim.

[INC]

Originally Posted by 77T

I simply explained the process and procedures used. It provides context for the stories about a new investigation circulating in some circles.

Sorry, I expressed myself wrong - I totally agree with you. I intended what I wrote to confirm that it was not in Ferrari's interest to complain. Morover, as no team had a reason to do it, so no one complained.

[SDGT3]

Mick Schumacher and Mercedes have come to an agreement to put Mick in as reserve driver, the same role De Vries held for the team this year. His role as reserve driver will be extended to both the McLaren and Williams F1 teams. The announcement is forthcoming.

[INC]

TY for the info!

[77T]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

Mick Schumacher and Mercedes have come to an agreement to put Mick in as reserve driver, the same role De Vries held for the team this year. His role as reserve driver will be extended to both the McLaren and Williams F1 teams. The announcement is forthcoming.

I saw an interview with Toto Wolff earlier today - but he made conditional statements.

"He’s been very successful in junior formulas, and we believe that we can look after him if the situation were to happen.

"He is someone that just fits the team, but we haven't put pen to paper.

"We haven't really come anywhere close to any terms.”

"I think he just fits and now we need to make it happen – if he wants to, if Sabine wants to and then we will see where that goes."

SCH is also reviewing Ferrari options but not in F1 - so there’s that wrinkle. Easily ironed out if he signs with MB.

The pivot could be the financial package - not going to be anywhere near his Haas deal as the team’s driver.

Let’s hope for the best - he has had a rough 2 years with the penny-pinchers.


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[SDGT3]

According to German sources near the MSC family, the deal is done and awaiting announcement.

Personally, I thought in all reality he only got 1 year with HAAS because his rookie year with another rookie (Mazapin) was a waste, not only because Mazapin was much slower than Mick, but because you cannot learn from another rookie like he did this year from KMAG.

It's probably best Mick go to a different team and see how things are done elsewhere without the pressure of being a driver. If the opportunity comes up with 1 or more of those teams to fill in if necessary, then he can show everyone what he is made of. I wish him nothing but the best of luck.

[INC]

Binotto resigns and left Ferrari.

[1st amg]

Originally Posted by INC

Binotto resigns and left Ferrari.

LOL, too much Italian pride to be fired, may as well walk away with a tiny bit of pride.