The Official Formula One Thread!

[sillo]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

The numbers tell a different story.

Check out the first graph on the page here http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/

The 2000’s were the historical nadir in terms of frequency of overtaking.

There was a great thread on reddit about this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co...s_on_this_sub/

[77T]

Originally Posted by V25V

Agree with everything you said. Sometimes I wonder if I am just becoming the old guy who "doesn't get it" any longer. Do the kids watch this and get really excited the way we used to? Do they find the old way of racing boring? Gosh, I certainly hope not. But with Formula E and Sim Racing becoming all too popular, I am not sure we are in the majority, very likely not. So what becomes of motor racing? Electric hair dryers racing around and kids in sim cockpits across the world racing each other on the internet? That sounds awful!

In general, I think traditional motorsports is still viable. It trends up and down with the economy but overall I see signs of health.

Last weekend we had over 300 cars racing at Road ATL. Next month, over 400 are already registered for our weekend at VIR. Might hit 500 by the event date.

There is a place for racing anything anywhere as long as the competitive spirit lives. Despite the strong numbers I mentioned above, we also launched an iRacing competition series to capture young guns without funding. So even SIM racing has a place IMHO.

I think it’s like the Rolex and Apple Watch debate - you can have both.


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[V25V]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

The numbers tell a different story.

Check out the first graph on the page here http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/

The 2000’s were the historical nadir in terms of frequency of overtaking.

Clip the apex?

Sorry, that data seems like crap. And 52 overtakes in 2016? They must be including pit stop cycling and cars off track as overtakes. Zero chance they had 52 overtakes/GP in 2016.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by 77T

In general, I think traditional motorsports is still viable. It trends up and down with the economy but overall I see signs of health.

Last weekend we had over 300 cars racing at Road ATL. Next month, over 400 are already registered for our weekend at VIR. Might hit 500 by the event date.

There is a place for racing anything anywhere as long as the competitive spirit lives. Despite the strong numbers I mentioned above, we also launched an iRacing competition series to capture young guns without funding. So even SIM racing has a place IMHO.

I think it’s like the Rolex and Apple Watch debate - you can have both.


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Wonder why VIR will be so well attended.... I may head down myself to test for the F2000 event but that will be a cluster F of a mixed field.

[OmegaJJH]

Subscription only viewing is stifling F1 IMO.

Back in the ‘good old days’ as you’ve described above, races were on free to air terrestrial TV watched by millions!!


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[77T]

Originally Posted by V25V

Wonder why VIR will be so well attended.... I may head down myself to test for the F2000 event but that will be a cluster F of a mixed field.

I would be careful - the FA field is mixed as you said.

Aren’t F2000 drivers under testing control?

We had an F3 team with us and their drivers had to sit out while hired guns shook down their new cars.


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[V25V]

Originally Posted by 77T

I would be careful - the FA field is mixed as you said.

Aren’t F2000 drivers under testing control?

We had an F3 team with us and their drivers had to sit out while hired guns shook down their new cars.


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Nah, Bob and those guys are much more liberal about it. You aren't supposed to do any actual private testing at any tracks prior to their hosted event but SCCA Majors/Regionals/etc are fair game.

But like you said, my bigger concern is the mixed field. I heard last year was a total S show.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by V25V

Clip the apex?

Sorry, that data seems like crap. And 52 overtakes in 2016? They must be including pit stop cycling and cars off track as overtakes. Zero chance they had 52 overtakes/GP in 2016.

Ok.

It’s difficult to have a reasonable debate though if objective evidence is met with “that’s crap” with no reasoning beyond “I don’t believe it”.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Ok.

It’s difficult to have a reasonable debate though if objective evidence is met with “that’s crap” with no reasoning beyond “I don’t believe it”.

That wasn't objective evidence though, thats my point. That data is coming from a site that looks like it was designed by a high schooler. How accurate could that be? Then you look at the numbers and they just do not make sense.

[dba]

Originally Posted by V25V

Agree with everything you said. Sometimes I wonder if I am just becoming the old guy who "doesn't get it" any longer. Do the kids watch this and get really excited the way we used to?

I feel like the old guy also, and actually I am, but my daughter and her boyfriend drive 20 miles and my son drives almost 50 miles each way to watch the races with me. All are in their early to mid-twenties.

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Michael Schumacher won five titles in a row with Ferrari from 2000-2004. He routinely won races by 20, 30 and 40 seconds. The tyres were ultra durable, there was no fuel restriction, he was sitting in front of a thirsty 3L V10. The racing was every bit as boring - more so to my recollection - than anything that’s been served up in the turbo hybrid era.

‘Twas ever thus.

At least the 3L V-10s had a sound you could enjoy. I remember being in Phoenix, AZ for the 1989 and 1990 races. The engine formula was 3.5L and Lola / Lamborghini was using a V-12 as opposed the everyone else using V-10. When the Lola /Lamborghini car went by, it actually hurt my ears. But what a sound indeed!

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by V25V

That wasn't objective evidence though, thats my point. That data is coming from a site that looks like it was designed by a high schooler. How accurate could that be? Then you look at the numbers and they just do not make sense.

Maybe you should read the whole article. Data from 1983-2003 was compiled for an article by Autosport which is a fairly decent publication for F1. You should also scroll down to see what was considered an overtake. Just because the site doesn’t have a fancy layout doesn’t mean the evidence wasn’t objective. How objective are you being when someone present you with cited evidence and you’re just dismissing it because it doesn’t confirm your theory?

[V25V]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Maybe you should read the whole article. Data from 1983-2003 was compiled for an article by Autosport which is a fairly decent publication for F1. You should also scroll down to see what was considered an overtake. Just because the site doesn’t have a fancy layout doesn’t mean the evidence wasn’t objective. How objective are you being when someone present you with cited evidence and you’re just dismissing it because it doesn’t confirm your theory?

Even worse now that you pointed this out. Look, you have a point however in that you will never convince me the racing now is better than it was then. The cars now are crap and the "racing" is garbage.

Position changes on the first lap of the race

Position changes due to drivers lapping backmarkers

Positions gained in the pits

Positions gained due to drivers yielding

Positions gained when a car has a serious technical problem; e.g. puncture, accident damage, etc.


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[77T]

Well if it was sound you wanted, nothing beats the ear splitting triple rotor Mazda’s.

I’ve been in this so long I still remember the first go round with a 1.5 liter engine formula in the ‘60’s. F1 survived and it will survive this iteration. Don’t look now but it’s changing again in 2021 to get rid of the combine and heat driven MGU’s.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by V25V

Position changes on the first lap of the race

Position changes due to drivers lapping backmarkers

Positions gained in the pits

Positions gained due to drivers yielding

Positions gained when a car has a serious technical problem; e.g. puncture, accident damage, etc.

Yeah all true.

But it ain’t NASCAR at least.


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[V25V]

Originally Posted by 77T

Well if it was sound you wanted, nothing beats the ear splitting triple rotor Mazda’s.

I’ve been in this so long I still remember the first go round with a 1.5 liter engine formula in the ‘60’s. F1 survived and it will survive this iteration. Don’t look now but it’s changing again in 2021 to get rid of the combine and heat driven MGU’s.


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Love that rotary Mazda!






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[mangoseed]

I reiterate my point again; even though Ferrari was dominating in the early 2000's drivers were at least racing, modern F1 is all about conservation and drivers are hardly pushing the cars.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by V25V

Even worse now that you pointed this out. Look, you have a point however in that you will never convince me the racing now is better than it was then. The cars now are crap and the "racing" is garbage.

Position changes on the first lap of the race

Position changes due to drivers lapping backmarkers

Positions gained in the pits

Positions gained due to drivers yielding

Positions gained when a car has a serious technical problem; e.g. puncture, accident damage, etc.


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If you don’t like current F1 that’s fine but to say you don’t like it because there was more overtaking in the past is having selective memory. None of those things you mentioned above were considered overtaking for the data collected in those graphs. Most likely reason why there is a lot of overtakes in current F1 is due to grid spot penalties. Mercedes, RB, and Ferrari can pretty much overtake anyone in the midfield without any trouble. If one of those cars started from last, by the end of the race they’ll have overtaken 12 cars on track without much effort with the remaining cars being passed through pit stop.

[goin camping]

A word on overtaking.

It is true that lead changes outside of the pit stop seem rare. But if you watched the midfield. There is a ton of overtaking there.

[77T]

Overtaking in the field is exciting for the two to three drivers involved, and the fans at the track. But the lead changes on track are the ones we remember. Those are the ones we often cite as “the good old days”.

As far back as I can remember, much of the overtaking before the 2014 engine change, and the ban on refueling, was due to mechanical failure or crashes.

The aero today with DRS makes it look boring to see a pass at the end of a straight.

In the interest of making “watch worthy” posts - here is the good old days from 1967 Dutch Grand Prix...and when racing was more exciting: https://youtu.be/V6cm3eWEHM0

Oh...and kudo’s to the filmmakers who made it possible...






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[V25V]

Originally Posted by 77T

Overtaking in the field is exciting for the two to three drivers involved, and the fans at the track. But the lead changes on track are the ones we remember. Those are the ones we often cite as “the good old days”.

As far back as I can remember, much of the overtaking before the 2014 engine change, and the ban on refueling, was due to mechanical failure or crashes.

The aero today with DRS makes it look boring to see a pass at the end of a straight.

In the interest of making “watch worthy” posts - here is the good old days from 1967 Dutch Grand Prix...and when racing was more exciting: https://youtu.be/V6cm3eWEHM0

Oh...and kudo’s to the filmmakers who made it possible...






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Agree. Best days in F1 or racing in general were the days, sad to say, before technology became what it is now. Drivers were drivers and they had to hustle the cars around, now they are like computers.


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by 77T

I would be careful - the FA field is mixed as you said.
Aren’t F2000 drivers under testing control?

Originally Posted by V25V

You aren't supposed to do any actual private testing at any tracks prior to their hosted event but SCCA Majors/Regionals/etc are fair game.

But like you said, my bigger concern is the mixed field. I heard last year was a total S show.

Have been on the sidelines since 2008 (huge thx to Glenn at GTP, rest in peace my friend) and looks like F2000 has become more, ummm.... interesting. Yeah, just do some regional events... i guess.

[sillo]

This race has been incredible.




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[sillo]

And as a Ferrari fan... absolutely soul crushing.


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[Zakalwe]

Great race. LeClerc deserved to win but Ferrari didn’t.

[texasmade]

Amazing race with lots of overtaking. French and Italian engineering, lol.

Also, Max spinning out on the cool down lap. Wtf.

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by sillo38

This race has been incredible.

I agree. A much needed, exciting race.

[goin camping]

Exciting time for sure!

Leclerc was great. Drove better than Vettel but the car let them both down.

Bottas started great but then... Well done Hamilton.

Kubica! Last place last race and 15 or 16 today. Hopefully he continues to improve.

[sillo]

Well at least Bottas has been showing up this year for a fight.

[OmegaJJH]

Anybody else attend the Spanish Grand Prix?

Truly amazing weekend with lots of watch porn on display RM, gold Pateks, AP and of course Rolex

Great result!!!!!

A few pics...




























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[piratfisk]

Nice pics! Thanks for sharing.