Bought Rolex but received Empty Box--HELP

[helo008]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for everyone who has helped in the process of this experience. I've refrained from posting for the last few months in light of the ongoing court proceedings, but now that everything has concluded I'd like to give everyone an update as to what has happened.

Given that the watch went missing in early June and I had no other forms of protection outside of UPS insurance, which did not seem promising, I reached out to several attorneys specializing in consumer protection law and ultimately decided upon their recommendation to pursue the case in Small Claims court. In California, small claims has a cap at $10,000 which fortunately covers the cost of the watch. I filed the case shortly after the watch was confirmed to be missing, given the backlog here in California for hearings, and scheduled a hearing on 10 October. I intended to dismiss the case beforehand if the refund was made, but after almost a month of waiting I decided to serve the seller. After emailing the seller, william21, a demand letter on 3 July, I did not hear back from him at all until seeing him in person on the day of the hearing. I had no idea if he was still reaching out to UPS, or if he was trying to walk away from the situation, so for the next several months until the date of the hearing I took matters with UPS into my own hands and was reaching out to staff at the UPS store where the package was shipped, the investigator who had come to check the package, and even the security department head every 2-3 days, going as far as to call for updates when traveling from the other side of the world.

In my opinion, UPS completely dropped the ball in the handling of the claim. I was initially told that processing would take around 10 days for the investigation and another 10 days to process the claim, but the payment was not made until late October. This was after repeated calls to check on the status of the claim, and at one point in August spending about a week to "un-freeze" the claim, which was frozen for unknown reasons in the Security department and was not being pushed to the Claims department. After the claim was finally approved, I received numerous calls from different people out of the Texas office to confirm the value of the item. When they finally did disburse the check, it took two tries before it even arrived to the UPS store, and it was only paid out the seller after our court hearing in October. While the individuals I was regularly in contact with at UPS were helpful, the whole claims process took at least 12 hours on the phone on hold and being declined information multiple times after being told they would only issue information to the seller.

At court, I presented the information that the members of this forum have helped me find, which included the weight discrepancies with the package when weighed at the UPS Store. These were elements I could not possibly have tampered with as they were taken when the watch was shipped, much before I received it. The judge noted that she was inclined to agree with the plaintiff, but wanted to schedule a continuance in case the UPS claim made the payment. During the hearing, the seller verbally confirmed he would direct the payment to me as soon as he received it from UPS, and this was noted by the stenographer in the minutes and was mailed to me several days later in writing. This continuance was scheduled for January but will no longer be taking place now that the case has been settled.

Several days ago, the seller, william21 mailed a check to me for the value of the watch originally purchased. He has stated that UPS has made the claims payment to him and he has now forwarded it to me. I have deposited the check and have made sure it has cleared, and have emailed him confirmation that I will be going ahead and dismissing the case.

As for the seller and several others who were skeptical, I can only say that the elements of doubt such as the inconsistencies in the weight of the package at the UPS Store took place far before I could ever handle the package itself. I'm not sure what I could possibly have done to tamper with the package at any point, but regardless I know for a fact what I did and did not do, and it seems clear that UPS and the court agrees. I've already discussed the matter of the watch I purchased in a prior post and with vinceb, and I'm sure that if anyone feels the need he will be happy to confirm the purchase made. With that said, for sellers, package security is definitely something to be concerned about, and as other members have mentioned, it is a good idea to pre-package the item and especially if shipping from a retail store, to keep the package anonymous and not to advertise the contents of your package.

I am extremely thankful once again for everyone's help and advice in this fiasco and have a few takeaways from this experience. For one, while UPS' insurance claim did eventually go through, it took in total almost 5 months to receive payment. This was an extremely harrowing experience that I would not recommend to anyone, and I definitely recommend that if purchasing, rely on more than just a shipping company's insurance. Credit card protection is definitely another avenue through which you can get additional protection, and a few hundred dollars in savings is not worth it if you are unfortunate enough to have a watch go missing and have to go through the claims process as I did. However, buying from businesses will always be easier if something does go wrong, but nothing beats the peace of mind of buying in person from an AD and that is the route I will be exclusively going down from this point on, especially given my experience over the last several months. I have recently just done so and despite the wait, it is worth it at least being able to sleep at night. Ultimately, I am just very glad that this situation is over and it has been resolved. Thanks again everyone for your diligence in following this thread and for all your help--it is all definitely appreciated. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer either here or by PM.

P.S. Where should I report the serial of the missing watch? I'd be happy to post it here as well if that is an appropriate way to report it.

[MinMay]

Thanks for the update. You can report the serial # on this thread... Also, contact Rolex HQ. Whoever has that watch in possession will have a difficult time selling/servicing it.

I hope both, seller and buyer, learns a huge lesson from this incident...I certainly did. I know I wouldn't wire 10K to a seller who will not take responsibility or insured the watch in case of mishap.

Seller is fortunate that UPS paid otherwise, it will come out of his pocket.

[77T]

Originally Posted by MinMay

Thanks for the update. You can report the serial # on this thread... Also, contact Rolex HQ. Whoever has that watch in possession will have a difficult time selling/servicing it.

I agree it should be reported here along with pictures.

As for reporting it to Rolex, that will be difficult without a police report. I think the seller must do that report. The buyer has no standing with the police in the jurisdiction where the UPS store accepted the package.

The person having custody of this watch will not have problems selling it or servicing it while it is unreported. And I think that person knows this all too well...


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[77T]

Originally Posted by helo008

I am extremely thankful once again for everyone's help and advice in this fiasco and have a few takeaways from this experience. For one, while UPS' insurance claim did eventually go through, it took in total almost 5 months to receive payment. This was an extremely harrowing experience that I would not recommend to anyone, and I definitely recommend that if purchasing, rely on more than just a shipping company's insurance. Credit card protection is definitely another avenue through which you can get additional protection, and a few hundred dollars in savings is not worth it if you are unfortunate enough to have a watch go missing and have to go through the claims process as I did. However, buying from businesses will always be easier if something does go wrong, but nothing beats the peace of mind of buying in person from an AD and that is the route I will be exclusively going down from this point on, especially given my experience over the last several months. I have recently just done so and despite the wait, it is worth it at least being able to sleep at night. Ultimately, I am just very glad that this situation is over and it has been resolved. Thanks again everyone for your diligence in following this thread and for all your help--it is all definitely appreciated. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer either here or by PM.



P.S. Where should I report the serial of the missing watch? I'd be happy to post it here as well if that is an appropriate way to report it.

Thanks for the update and fully understand your new direction in purchasing Rolexes - what an ordeal.

Please share the s/n along with any pictures you may have saved from the listing. This will help any TRF’er steer clear of it.

When 4 Rolexes were stolen from my house, I created a stolen watch pdf and posted it here.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by helo008

Hi everyone,



P.S. Where should I report the serial of the missing watch? I'd be happy to post it here as well if that is an appropriate way to report it.

You can start a new thread in this section. The title should include the serial number so that search engines can find it easily. For example "Rolex GMT II SN XXXXXXX stolen". Then put a brief message in the body that the watch was stolen in transit from a UPS store in California.

You can reference this thread in case people want the whole story. But most people won't want to wade through 19 pages of posts to know they're looking at a stolen watch.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You can start a new thread in this section. The title should include the serial number so that search engines can find it easily. For example "Rolex GMT II SN XXXXXXX stolen". Then put a brief message in the body that the watch was stolen in transit from a UPS store in California.

You can reference this thread in case people want the whole story. But most people won't want to wade through 19 pages of posts to know they're looking at a stolen watch.

Agree
Better idea


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[william21]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You can start a new thread in this section. The title should include the serial number so that search engines can find it easily. For example "Rolex GMT II SN XXXXXXX stolen". Then put a brief message in the body that the watch was stolen in transit from a UPS store in California.

You can reference this thread in case people want the whole story. But most people won't want to wade through 19 pages of posts to know they're looking at a stolen watch.

Great idea.

The SN was 7E2152L2. I will post it on the thread.

[Humble michael]

I would call Rolex and tell them of the theft . I did this with Patek and they flagged the serial no of the watch and my info. They never asked for a police report and said if anyone tried to get this piece serviced, they would contact me.

[bezler]

Originally Posted by william21

Great idea.

The SN was 7E2152L2. I will post it on the thread.

Here's another great idea: How about an apology to the OP?

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[vitix]

Wow, I just read all this.... what a nightmare for both seller and buyer... I will just say next time... use Fedex

[MoosicPa]

Originally Posted by dmash

Sorry but you have no case. Don’t know what you’re expecting. You could just as easily be scamming the seller, as he could be scamming you or the package was stolen by a 3rd party. No way this would be decided in your favor in court, it’s all his word against yours. Also, IMO, that’s sort of a silly way to go about things anyways, as all you’re doing is pissing off the guy who’s trying to get the refund for you as quick as possible.

If this was Paypal, sure they’d find in your favor and you’d win. In an actual court of law? Absolutely not. An entire waste of money if you ask me.

Originally Posted by helo008

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for everyone who has helped in the process of this experience. I've refrained from posting for the last few months in light of the ongoing court proceedings, but now that everything has concluded I'd like to give everyone an update as to what has happened.

Given that the watch went missing in early June and I had no other forms of protection outside of UPS insurance, which did not seem promising, I reached out to several attorneys specializing in consumer protection law and ultimately decided upon their recommendation to pursue the case in Small Claims court.

At court, I presented the information that the members of this forum have helped me find, which included the weight discrepancies with the package when weighed at the UPS Store. These were elements I could not possibly have tampered with as they were taken when the watch was shipped, much before I received it. The judge noted that she was inclined to agree with the plaintiff....

Thankfully the OP chose to disregard @dmash's uneducated advice.

[Chewbacca]

Nice.

[24 nights]

congrats

[Filmprolv.com]

Originally Posted by MoosicPa

Thankfully the OP chose to disregard @dmash's uneducated advice.

Lol guess that’s what@dmash meant when he said “if you ask me” in which nobody did haha haha

[bonatto]

Publicizing the stolen watch's serial number would be imperative. Witholding it could imply that an interested party may have had something to do with the disappearance.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by bonatto

Publicizing the stolen watch's serial number would be imperative. Witholding it could imply that an interested party may have had something to do with the disappearance.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=640144

[bonatto]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=640144

Got it thanks

[Burlington]

Thank you OP for the update.

I am pleased it’s been resolved. Tough situation too for the seller. But from what I’ve read on here it looks like both have acted honestly.

[digitalcrocodile]

Originally Posted by bezler

Here's another great idea: How about an apology to the OP?

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[tbonesteak]

Followed this one, great update. Glad it worked out for you OP!

[freefly]

Originally Posted by 77T

I agree it should be reported here along with pictures.

As for reporting it to Rolex, that will be difficult without a police report. I think the seller must do that report. The buyer has no standing with the police in the jurisdiction where the UPS store accepted the package.

The buyer should be able to file a police report.
Money changed hands, so while he wasn't in possession at the time, he was certainly the new "owner" after sending funds, and had cause. Worth a call to the local PD at least.

I'd definitely get a police report filed, either way. This will enter the SN into the NCIC database (nation-wide), which will flag it at many/most pawn shops if the scumbag thief ever tries to pawn it (if they haven't already).
This will also enable you to report it with Rolex HQ (which I would also do ASAP). Lastly, I'd start threads on any/all of the other popular watch formus with a brief description and list the SN.


OP: Glad to hear you finally got a resolution here.

[77T]

The buyer can’t report a stolen item which he never had in his possession. He never experienced a crime not can attest the watch was ever on the shipping box when it left the carrier’s depot.

Only the seller, the carrier (UPS) or their insurance carrier can report it.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by freefly

The buyer should be able to file a police report.
Money changed hands, so while he wasn't in possession at the time, he was certainly the new "owner" after sending funds, and had cause. Worth a call to the local PD at least.

I'd definitely get a police report filed, either way. This will enter the SN into the NCIC database (nation-wide), which will flag it at many/most pawn shops if the scumbag thief ever tries to pawn it (if they haven't already).
This will also enable you to report it with Rolex HQ (which I would also do ASAP). Lastly, I'd start threads on any/all of the other popular watch formus with a brief description and list the SN.


OP: Glad to hear you finally got a resolution here.

Originally Posted by 77T

The buyer can’t report a stolen item which he never had in his possession. He never experienced a crime not can attest the watch was ever on the shipping box when it left the carrier’s depot.

Only the seller, the carrier (UPS) or their insurance carrier can report it.


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Here ya go, use these - Fresno Police Department (Report # 18304406) and Emeryville Police Department (Report #1806-0929). The SN was 7E2152L2

[77T]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Here ya go, use these - Fresno Police Department (Report # 18304406) and Emeryville Police Department (Report #1806-0929). The SN was 7E2152L2

Ah thanks -
I’m guessing those were filed prior to the settlement?

I should have been more clear in my statement - I was referring to the current state of play where buyer was made whole.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 77T

Ah thanks -
I’m guessing those were filed prior to the settlement?

I should have been more clear in my statement - I was referring to the current state of play where buyer was made whole.


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Just an opinion... The seller was compensated for the loss by UPS. It seems logical that he would report the theft to Rolex and provide the UPS claim information. An expert can chime in, but I believe the watch now belongs to the insuror who paid the claim, not to the buyer or seller.

[77T]

If I know UPS as I did 10 yrs ago, only excess amounts are under a policy. They watch every penny and are self insured up to an amount.

The other thing is whether their investigation determines if a UPS Store employee pilfered the watch - then they might be going after his/her assets in a civil action.

So the check may have come from a claims processor or UPS itself but the funds were likely UPS, or part UPS and part insurance.



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[~Haze~]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

There is no set refund Policy as such. TRF only supplies a space for folks to sell stuff, and they make their own policies. As long as no one breaks the law, or the sales forums rules, they can operate pretty much how they wish.

Well, it is still fraud. I know the op stated it was shipped ups and I'm not sure whether the ups is considered mail which would escalate it to mail fraud but it still has potential and laws have definitely been broken.

That being said, I'm not suggesting anything nefarious has taken place between the buyer and seller but it makes you think listing the contents and insuring then may have put a big bullseye on the package.

[~Haze~]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Just an opinion... The seller was compensated for the loss by UPS. It seems logical that he would report the theft to Rolex and provide the UPS claim information. An expert can chime in, but I believe the watch now belongs to the insuror who paid the claim, not to the buyer or seller.

This should be correct. But it wouldn't be the first time I've seen property returned to an owner after the claim was paid and the insurance company technically owned the item.

[Dudman]

Shew
Glad it worked out as it did for the buyer.

[Beckster]

Sorry for the nerve wrecking experience for both parties. Epic saga for the rest of us mere bystanders. Lots of lessons learned and glad it all worked out in the end, albeit, at a big emotional cost. Good luck in your future dealings with an AD!