Buying a Submariner from an individual - How to protect myself?

[HL65]

That does seem like an awfully good price--lower than anyone I have seen. It is very easy for a watchmaker to take the back of the case off and see in a second if it is real. I am sure there is a good independent watchmaker somewhere near you that you can take it to?? Best of luck!

[rmaut]

Dude tried to change the plans at the last minute, telling me he was stuck watching the kids and couldn't leave. Told him no thanks, and ended up just getting a new GMT Master II from the dealer that I was planning on having authenticate the Submariner.

[FancyWatch]

I think I spoke with this same person in LA

[oboshoe]

Originally Posted by rmaut

He claims it was acquired from a bankruptcy suit. I am skeptical, but at the same time I feel that his willingness to authenticate it at a dealer and provide a bill of sale with his driver's license is indicative of a legitimate situation. I plan to have his driver's license verified at a police station to make sure it isn't a fake ID. Anything else you guys can think of?

Ask him for the bankruptcy case number, or the name of the person who filed.

For about $5 (or less) you can verify the detail of the case and the watch would be a listed asset as well as the details of how it was disposed.

see www.pacer.gov

[cid]

Originally Posted by rmaut

Essentially, I'm buying a 2008 Submariner date from an individual, and I'm trying to cover my bases to make sure I don't end up with a fake. Thus far, the dude has offered to include a bill of sale along with a copy of his driver's license. He has also agreed to meet me at a Rolex dealer of my choice, but told me that the dealer won't authenticate the watch, as they mail them to Dallas headquarters to do that. I called several dealers, and every dealer told me exactly that (they said they can look over the exterior, but can't open it up). Is there anything you guys can think of that would further protect me in a situation like this? It comes with the box, papers, warranty card, etc. The guy said he can guarantee that it is genuine, functioning, and not stolen in the bill of sale. What has me on edge is the price....he's asking 2k, and I haven't seen any other Submariners going for less than 4. Thoughts?

It might be legitimate. If it were ME, I'd agree to put the $2,000 in escrow, take the watch to a dealer of YOUR choice and have them check out the watch. A good dealer shouldn't need to open the watch to verify it's real. There are a number of telling attributes of a Rolex that a trained eye should be able to verify.

If he's willing to give you his DL information, that doesn't hurt either. Check him out. By what method is he willing to accept payment? Will he take a teller's check drawn on your account? AMEX check? These are easy to track if it turns out later that the watch is a fake.

It does seem odd that he's willing to part with a 2008 sub for $2,000. Unless of course the watch has been worn rough and is beat up. Have you seen the watch in person?

[xjeeunitx]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan1965

That does seem like an awfully good price--lower than anyone I have seen. It is very easy for a watchmaker to take the back of the case off and see in a second if it is real. I am sure there is a good independent watchmaker somewhere near you that you can take it to?? Best of luck!

Yeah, I'd do that.

[xjeeunitx]

Originally Posted by cid

It might be legitimate. If it were ME, I'd agree to put the $2,000 in escrow, take the watch to a dealer of YOUR choice and have them check out the watch. A good dealer shouldn't need to open the watch to verify it's real. There are a number of telling attributes of a Rolex that a trained eye should be able to verify.

If he's willing to give you his DL information, that doesn't hurt either. Check him out. By what method is he willing to accept payment? Will he take a teller's check drawn on your account? AMEX check? These are easy to track if it turns out later that the watch is a fake.

It does seem odd that he's willing to part with a 2008 sub for $2,000. Unless of course the watch has been worn rough and is beat up. Have you seen the watch in person?

The only true way to authenticate a watch is by removing the caseback. There are too many GOOD fakes for you NOT to check. Even still, the case could be a fake as well, so........

[Speed]

Come on...would folks have really gone through these hoops? The guy was clearly pulling something.

I would opt for a problem-free transaction on TRF and save ALL the hassle!!!

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by Speed

Come on...would folks have really gone through these hoops? The guy was clearly pulling something.

I would opt for a problem-free transaction on TRF and save ALL the hassle!!!

+1

[Rolexcess]

Originally Posted by rmaut

I just called a jeweler who said they would take it apart, inspect the movement, and pressure test it. They said they would issue paperwork that verifies that it has been inspected and is authentic. They said the only base that isn't being covered is that it could be stolen. If I get the dude's driver's license validated by a police offer and on the bill of sale contract, are there any angles I could be missing?

The "angle" you are missing is that if you show up with $2k in cash, you are going to get robbed, weather you are at an AD or not.

Do not do this; the scam will work like this: you will show up at the designated AD and he will not show up (he will be watching you). Once you leave, he will call you, apologize and then arrange for a quick meeting. If you show him cash - you are done.

If you insist on doing this deal, bring a certified bank check. DO NOT agree to cash... if it smells fishy, it usually is.

[karmatp]

My concern is that you are going to buy it, which I would never do, then send it in for a service and never see it again. The first thing I think of when a watch is that cheap is that it was stolen, and it will get confiscated by Rolex when servicing. I would not even take the chance, it just not worth it.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by rmaut

Dude tried to change the plans at the last minute, telling me he was stuck watching the kids and couldn't leave. Told him no thanks, and ended up just getting a new GMT Master II from the dealer that I was planning on having authenticate the Submariner.

You guys might want to read post #32.



Paul

[Newportkrieger]

Originally Posted by Paul B

You guys might want to read post #32.



Paul

Paul,

The posts are constantly changing order in the forum. You should include a link to that post if you want people to find it and read it.

Steve

[Gottog]

You seemed to be trying to "force" this transaction way too much.

Original receipt, box, papers, warranty, driver's license to be checked out at a police station, meet at an AD, and a jeweler is going to check the movement and pressure test it and you are still suspicious? The seller/scammer's mistake was asking for too low of a price. If he was asking $2800 most buyers would not have been as suspicious with the same exact watch transaction.

Did you find him on Craigslist of something? I'm glad you reconsidered and went with a more agreeable purchase. Peace of mind is worth a lot in my book. Enjoy the new GMT Master II!

[Shade]

I belive the OP skipped the deal and bought something else from his AD, which is a very wise choice imho.

Great deals happen from time to time, but they don't usually come from a stranger.

[Chipmunk]

The OP already bought a different watch.

[BT12]

Originally Posted by cht

Dealers will not authenticate the watch.
There is no comfort in a seller agreeing to meet you there.

If you are not well versed in the watch and it's detail and are unable to authenticate it your self comfortably you are probably just the right person to get scammed IMO.

walk away, this is a no brainer.

How do dealers give you a written appraisal if they cannot authenticate the watch?

[tulsaokusa]

Originally Posted by EchoBlueUK

I don't buy any from anyone other than ADs. Not worth the risk imho.

[Porsche]

Hmmm, if the asking price had been closer to $4K, then no red flags would have been raised, and the OP could easily have bought the "Rolex" watch, thinking all was well!!!

[Brian J]

Originally Posted by BT12

How do dealers give you a written appraisal if they cannot authenticate the watch?

When I was shopping 2nd hand here in Minnesota I called around to dealers asking to verify authenticity and the 2 options I got were

A) they would a visiual inspection and tell me if they thought it was real but couldn't guarantee anything - cost $50

B)they could send it to a watch maker for a full appraisal where they would open the case, this would take a couple days - cost $75

[Dr.B]

Buddy....just walk away....you have been advised by many savvy members of this forum.
If you want to take a big chance (like gambling and don't mind losing 2K) then by all means go ahead.

[rmaut]

Originally Posted by Dr.B

Buddy....just walk away....you have been advised by many savvy members of this forum.
If you want to take a big chance (like gambling and don't mind losing 2K) then by all means go ahead.

Read through the thread, I bought a GMT Master II from an AD after the seller claimed he couldn't meet at the dealer anymore.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Newportkrieger

Paul,

The posts are constantly changing order in the forum. You should include a link to that post if you want people to find it and read it.

Steve

Post #32 is in this thread. In it the OP states that he bought another watch from someone else.
I had included the text from post #32 in my post (post #42).



Paul

[Dr.B]

Originally Posted by rmaut

Read through the thread, I bought a GMT Master II from an AD after the seller claimed he couldn't meet at the dealer anymore.

Congrats!

[Mr. K]

Good you passed on the watch. If the guy is savy enough to know how Rolex with authenticate the watch by sending it back and knowing an AD will not do it, then he must know the value of the watch!

Going to an AD like you did, was a good move! No worries, fresh watch, you are on the paperwork! Great deal. If it is a keeper, then it was a fantastic deal.

[Check]

There's no harm in checking it out. I would follow-up on padi56 and Rolexsubdate's advice. Take it to a reputable watchmaker, have them check it out to authenticate,

Best of luck! Just do your due diligence.

[457689]

Originally Posted by rmaut

Read through the thread, I bought a GMT Master II from an AD after the seller claimed he couldn't meet at the dealer anymore.

You should still set up another appointment with the guy and buy it.

[nmerc001]

I'd spend the extra $$ for piece of mind the watch isn't a fake or a lemon.