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Speed · 1 May 2011, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsio

Hmm but would the brand be worth more than peanuts if Sly had walked out of that jewelery store with a Movado in '95 instead of a Panerai?

Ugh...Believe it or not, I did not like PAMs at first. Slowly, they grew on me as a result of TRF. That said, I had not realized Sly Stallone helped in a way to popularize them.

Oh well...I still like them!

This reminds me of the first "nice" watch I bought pre-WIS days. A Hamilton Ventura. After I bought it, Will Smith wore one in Men in Black. EVERYONE thought I bought it because of him / the movie!!!

mfer · 1 May 2011, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usbzoso

I can't believe anyone would pay anything over $3k dollars for ETA/UNITAS 6497 watch. PAM with in-house movements i understand different story.

I'm the exact opposite! I want those sh*tty 6497's, and stick my nose up at their in-house which haven't been tested 1% as much as those 6497's.

dsio · 1 May 2011, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed

Ugh...Believe it or not, I did not like PAMs at first. Slowly, they grew on me as a result of TRF. That said, I had not realized Sly Stallone helped in a way to popularize them.

Oh well...I still like them!

This reminds me of the first "nice" watch I bought pre-WIS days. A Hamilton Ventura. After I bought it, Will Smith wore one in Men in Black. EVERYONE thought I bought it because of him / the movie!!!

I was almost going to buy one of those Hamiltons but when I discovered it wasn't really worn by a Pet Detective, I considered it to be a bit of false advertising.

usbzoso · 1 May 2011, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed

This is why...It's a gorgeous, simple, beautifully-designed watch that gives good time

gorgeous and beautiful for sure ... but not worth over $3k imo ... same as Omega with ETA movements ... only demand is driving the price up not the actual quality or beauty of the watch

usbzoso · 1 May 2011, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfer

I'm the exact opposite! I want those sh*tty 6497's, and stick my nose up at their in-house which haven't been tested 1% as much as those 6497's.

i want them too just not for anything over $3k

Speed · 1 May 2011, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usbzoso

gorgeous and beautiful for sure ... but not worth over $3k imo ... same as Omega with ETA movements ... only demand is driving the price up not the actual quality or beauty of the watch

Well, I couldn't make one myself in my garage.

so I paid market rate.
That said, I bought my PAM 111 pre-owned from a solid TRF member for a very good price.

Yup. Demand, beauty and other factors definitely enter into watch pricing and trumps many things - like logic. Think SS Daytona at $10,400 USD MSRP.

mrbill2mrbill2 · 1 May 2011, 03:35 AM

PAMs with ETA movements are modestly over priced. But, go to an in house movement they are way over priced. Especially, when you are talking about "young" movements with little reliability/durability history.

esm · 1 May 2011, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill2mrbill2

PAMs with ETA movements are modestly over priced. But, go to an in house movement they are way over priced. Especially, when you are talking about "young" movements with little reliability/durability history.

hopefully one day Panerai will use in-house movement in all their models.... this will probably drive up the demand with Panerai with ETA movements

dsio · 1 May 2011, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esm

hopefully one day Panerai will use in-house movement in all their models.... this will probably drive up the demand with Panerai with ETA movements

Strange as it sounds, I think by the time that happens, the Marina Militare RXW watches will have eclipsed the value of those Panerai's.

esm · 1 May 2011, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsio

Strange as it sounds, I think by the time that happens, the Marina Militare RXW watches will have eclipsed the value of those Panerai's.

I thought thy were sued by Panerai for using the words "Marina Militare"?

Passionata · 1 May 2011, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill2mrbill2

PAMs with ETA movements are modestly over priced. But, go to an in house movement they are way over priced. Especially, when you are talking about "young" movements with little reliability/durability history.

Totally agree

Abid · 1 May 2011, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsio

Gorgeous simple and beautiful make me think "fashion watch" is the thing, and if that's all that matters a homage watch does the same thing right down to the movement for 2.5k less, its not like a homage Explorer II where you're missing out on a special movement.

I just struggle to see the money, no doubting they're neat looking.

I disagree as well. A lot of people wear a rolex for Fashion, not that many people who own a SUB for example actually go diving. A simple Casio can tell you the time, anything after that is just jewelery.

Speed · 1 May 2011, 06:43 AM

So a watch is jewelry that gives time. Whew!!!

Abid · 1 May 2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed

So a watch is jewelry that gives time. Whew!!!

Finally someone gets it!

Welshwatchman · 1 May 2011, 08:15 AM

The member had a good point with his 329 / 116710 comparison with the 329 being considerably more expensive for the similarly specced watch.

It kinda stomps on the original assertion.

snog · 1 May 2011, 10:06 AM

I would think the built cost of both Rolex and Panerai are in the low hundreds,I can't understand when some think because Pams come with a leather strap that a Rolex has to be worth so much more,a SS bracelet is still only a few $$ to make,same with the movements, ok ETAs are cheap but I wouldn't think Rolex movements cost much more than an ETA either.

With both brands we are paying a few K for the brand name.

MAWhite · 1 May 2011, 11:56 AM

Exactly what I thought!

dsio · 1 May 2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esm

I thought thy were sued by Panerai for using the words "Marina Militare"?

Yea, they did, as a result the number produced is more limited than actual LE Panerai's and some people are paying well over double original retail for them. One of those odd cases where the copy is actually gaining value more than the original.

Kapture1 · 1 May 2011, 02:14 PM

Both priced as they should be IMO

terrenceterrence · 1 May 2011, 02:16 PM

I own a PAM 112 but seriously it can't even compare to a Rolex in terms of value for money and build quality.

I would only buy a base model and nothing else in their line up (well maybe a 233).

SGD10k for a inhouse movement that changes date at 11?! what kind of crap is that? If i wanted that i might as well stick with my Orange Monster. In this day and age, you would have thought that quick set would be a norm.

For that kind of money, I would rather put in on a GMTiic.

Buy the cheapest and most period accurate base model and be done with it. the rest of the line up are totally a waste of money. in the case of Panerai you do not get any of your money's worth.

applebook · 1 May 2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htc8p

right now they are both overpriced.

both their prices have reached the threshold that i may have to put my watch money elsewhere.

Agreed.

Panerai is beginning to lose some its cachet for me. After another decade, will Panerai be able to sustain its market growth at over 500,000 more pieces in the world?

applebook · 1 May 2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrenceterrence

I own a PAM 112 but seriously it can't even compare to a Rolex in terms of value for money and build quality.

Disagree.

The 111J that I had compares favorably with the Rolex, IWC, Blancpain, JLC, and Zenith that I've had.

Maybe you had a fake?

applebook · 1 May 2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snog

I would think the built cost of both Rolex and Panerai are in the low hundreds,I can't understand when some think because Pams come with a leather strap that a Rolex has to be worth so much more,a SS bracelet is still only a few $$ to make,same with the movements, ok ETAs are cheap but I wouldn't think Rolex movements cost much more than an ETA either.

With both brands we are paying a few K for the brand name.

How little money do you think that these watchmakers make? Even the most basic Panerai should take over a few dozen hours to finish and assemble completely, right? Are these watchmakers being paid minimum wage?

terrenceterrence · 1 May 2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook

Disagree.

The 111J that I had compares favorably with the Rolex, IWC, Blancpain, JLC, and Zenith that I've had.

Maybe you had a fake?

one foot fall on to parquet floor dented the lug. never knew 316L is "that" soft.

L-16610 · 1 May 2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsio

Yea, they did, as a result the number produced is more limited than actual LE Panerai's and some people are paying well over double original retail for them. One of those odd cases where the copy is actually gaining value more than the original.

hmmm, the price of the 127 and 217 also doubled
And this is a from 8000 euro to 15.000 - 17.000 euro

The RXW went from 1.000 to 2.000, I agre, the double but it's easier to go from 1000 to 2000 than from 7000 to 15000
Everybody can still pay 2000, 15000 is another story

applebook · 1 May 2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrenceterrence

one foot fall on to parquet floor dented the lug. never knew 316L is "that" soft.

I don't understand how you can criticize Panerai for a dented lug from a drop. The steel used by Panerai is the same used by most other brands. Blame 316 steel.

terrenceterrence · 1 May 2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook

I don't understand how you can criticize Panerai for a dented lug from a drop. The steel used by Panerai is the same used by most other brands. Blame 316 steel.

do a search in P.com and you can see cases of Chrono pushers falling off, movement holders detached and jamming up the rotor, 233 linear power reserve indicator does not reset to zero.

i have a friend who sold off his 233 because of this.

if you think ur 111 is of extremely great build ..go to an Omega AD and check out Railmaster XXL. The level of finish in the Omega is by far better.

Flame on...

mike · 2 May 2011, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrenceterrence

do a search in P.com and you can see cases of Chrono pushers falling off, movement holders detached and jamming up the rotor, 233 linear power reserve indicator does not reset to zero.

i have a friend who sold off his 233 because of this.

if you think ur 111 is of extremely great build ..go to an Omega AD and check out Railmaster XXL. The level of finish in the Omega is by far better.

Flame on...

No flame, but do a search on any Rolex based forum and read about ceramic cracking, bezels falling off, crowns coming out, watches just stopping, etc....

No brand is perfect and we tend to emphasis the bad things on forums. How many people of any brand have no problems at all and go on down the highway.

esm · 2 May 2011, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrenceterrence

one foot fall on to parquet floor dented the lug. never knew 316L is "that" soft.

Really? So was the fall your fault or Panerai's fault?
In case you are not aware - Omega also uses 316L for their SS watches. So I wonder if their watches are also "that" soft.....

Speed · 2 May 2011, 01:43 AM

Omegas are fine watches. I LOVE my Speedy Pro.

Look, this argument is going nowhere. QA problems happen on all brands...and as Mike indicates, much of what is reported on Forums turns out to be a focus on incidents of bad things happening. The world is full of care-free PAM, Rolex, Omega wearers not caring a toss about their watches - save to tell the time.

Not like us weirdos, eh?

View Poll Results: Panerai versus Rolex (listprice)
Sound correct, Rolex went up too much or Panerai should add also 30 till 50 %	27	18.62%
No, both are priced as they should	50	34.48%
I don't know or I don't care	68	46.90%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

1 May 2011, 08:15 AM	#45
Welshwatchman "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Real Name: Paul Location: Wales, UK Posts: 14,578	The member had a good point with his 329 / 116710 comparison with the 329 being considerably more expensive for the similarly specced watch. It kinda stomps on the original assertion. __________________ ..33

1 May 2011, 02:14 PM	#49
Kapture1 "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Real Name: Matt Location: Flint, MI Watch: Ω 3570.50.00 Posts: 2,058	Both priced as they should be IMO __________________ Miss you JJ Wash out this tired notion that the best is yet to come

1 May 2011, 03:35 AM	#37
mrbill2mrbill2 "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Real Name: Mr. Bill Location: South Florida Watch: 16610 Posts: 6,148	PAMs with ETA movements are modestly over priced. But, go to an in house movement they are way over priced. Especially, when you are talking about "young" movements with little reliability/durability history.

1 May 2011, 06:43 AM	#43
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,741	So a watch is jewelry that gives time. Whew!!!

1 May 2011, 10:06 AM	#46
snog "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: UK Posts: 908	I would think the built cost of both Rolex and Panerai are in the low hundreds,I can't understand when some think because Pams come with a leather strap that a Rolex has to be worth so much more,a SS bracelet is still only a few $$ to make,same with the movements, ok ETAs are cheap but I wouldn't think Rolex movements cost much more than an ETA either. With both brands we are paying a few K for the brand name.

1 May 2011, 11:56 AM	#47
MAWhite Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Mike Location: St. Louis Watch: Never Just One! Posts: 308	Exactly what I thought!

1 May 2011, 02:16 PM	#50
terrenceterrence "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Real Name: Terrence Location: singapore Posts: 154	I own a PAM 112 but seriously it can't even compare to a Rolex in terms of value for money and build quality. I would only buy a base model and nothing else in their line up (well maybe a 233). SGD10k for a inhouse movement that changes date at 11?! what kind of crap is that? If i wanted that i might as well stick with my Orange Monster. In this day and age, you would have thought that quick set would be a norm. For that kind of money, I would rather put in on a GMTiic. Buy the cheapest and most period accurate base model and be done with it. the rest of the line up are totally a waste of money. in the case of Panerai you do not get any of your money's worth.

2 May 2011, 01:43 AM	#60
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,741	Omegas are fine watches. I LOVE my Speedy Pro. Look, this argument is going nowhere. QA problems happen on all brands...and as Mike indicates, much of what is reported on Forums turns out to be a focus on incidents of bad things happening. The world is full of care-free PAM, Rolex, Omega wearers not caring a toss about their watches - save to tell the time. Not like us weirdos, eh?

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