Watch Grades

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by dmacintyre

Lists like this are ridiculous and pointless....

[MoBe]

Looks like there`s something on the list to offend everyone,so in the end it`s just an opinion and nothing to get excited about.

[Sufler]

Originally Posted by Rolex Junky

Officine Panerai

Duh.

Thanks.

[threemonkeys]

Originally Posted by Sufler

Duh.

Thanks.

I was wondering the same thing. Thanks for asking.

[s.al-anizi]

Sorry I forgot to add Glashutte Original to Tier 2

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by Rolex Junky

I got only one tier: watches that best hold their value: PP; Rolex & OP. The rest is just hot air.

Now you are thinking the way a watch salesman would think dear sir, not a true WIS

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by tseliot

AP is in a different league than YLC and would be in the 1st tier. Rolex should be in the 2nd and Longines should not be there.

I think you should differentiate between watch making companies and jewelry companies that make watches to begin with.

Cheers,
K

I personally would not place Rolex above Jaeger or Ulysse or IWC. Rolex does not have the pedigree, nor the watchmaking skills (complications) to compete with those. Rolex is not handmade btw....

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by GEO_79

I think Audemars Piguet is TIER 1;Breguet Tier 2;Baume&Mercier and longines Tier 4

Audemars Piguet in my opinion is becoming like Rolex, more celebrities are wearing the watch and thus it is 'cool' so to speak.

You cannot be serious in demoting Breguet, one of the first watchmakers in the world, and with huge innovations on the automatic movement.

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by Rolex Junky

It has all been done by experts for you. Here you go:
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=196161

Note that AP is not as good as many on this forum perceive it to be.

AP still prints 'automatic' on some of its models, how cheesy can that be....

I do not know upon which criteria this list was compiled, but Rolex on top of Patek

I would love some of what those were on that day....

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by Keeperoftime

I think you need to keep reading...
Baume et Mercier ---- seriously?

Post like this are bogus.

I am just sharing an opinion for further knowledge guys, no hard feelings

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by Dilemma

I thought VC, PP and AP were the top three swiss watch makers?

AP does not produce the complications nor has the history that Breguet has. Also do not forget their German cousin A Lange.

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by opaline460

haha

I only shared my opinion with many of the more experienced and well informed members of this great forum

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by Cabaiguan

A Rolex is NOT at the same level of say a PP. Love Rolex to bits, but it's not in the PP league. Maybe if one measures by marketing prowess...

Rolex.... even that I now own a rolex 116610LV, i see nothing special when I walk into a cafe with about 20 people wearing Rolexes. Marketing....

[padi56]

Originally Posted by dan pierce

i prefer to do without labels and grading systems. Either i like them or i don't.
Dp

x2

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by dmacintyre

Lists like this are ridiculous and pointless and that's one of the worst I've seen. Rolex in the same tier as Blancpain? UN & IWC are tier 2 together with AP and JLC? Breitling in the same tier as Omega?

So innacurate on so many levels. How do you account for Panerai with JLC movements or the ETA in IWC?

Thanks for the reply,

Yes UN and IWC, certainly they do have ETA based product lines. However, do not discount the IWC master complication, the IWC Perpetual Calendar, or the numerous complications UN makes. What does AP have in comparison, chronographs JLC is another beast though...

If I were hard pressed as to which brand I like the most, it would certainly be Omegaaaa, but as you see Im not biased at all towards it. Breitling certainly does look funky to some people, but they do serve their market alongside Omega and Rolex with aviation instruments. i.e. the Emergency Beacon watch.

[s.al-anizi]

Originally Posted by cbusjer

I think you're confusing watch history with watch realities of today. IWC, GP, Omega (yes, unfortunately), Breitling, Panerai (less so as time goes on), Baume, Cartier, Longines, TAG, and Ebel (and I refuse to acknowledge some of the brands mentioned) are all owned by huge conglomerates and and generally ETA-powered. Most of these watches share platforms within their respective conglomerate houses and the only uniqueness they possess are the dials installed. These may be fighting words to some of you, and I understand brand loyalty and romantic nostalgia, but NONE of these watch companies are what they used to be. I own 3 Omega watches, and they were all made before 1965. Why? Because these watches were made when Omega was an independent entity who made watches that could compete with Rolex.

Tier 1 is correct, with the exception of Breguet (owned by SWATCH). Also, I would add Rolex, of course. Why? They share the quality of having an in house movement and being an independent entity.

Of course, if those are the standards, you have to bump A Lange and VC as well as they are both owned by Richemont....

So, my Tier 1, I'd have to say, is made up of Rolex and PP.

My Tier 2 would be new-comers who also fit into these criteria like Linde Werdelin and Maurice Lacroix... (these are watch companies to watch out for, I promise)

And the rest would fall into 3 and 4.

Just my .02....

Thanks for the informative reply dear sir, exactly what I was looking for.

As a business major, I would tell you that most conglomerates are not concerned with the operations and R&D teams within their holdings. What they are concerned with is the strategic plan of their companies, their market share, and where they place themselves within the market. The biggest example I know is Swatch group, Omega and Longines. Both had their days when they were the watches to be had, now, post Basel 2011 watch fair, Omega is being skyrocketed up with new movements, better quality materials, and MUCH more marketing. Couldn't Longines as a company with the Nostalgia of Omega benefit of such a move? Certainly, but such a move would cause unwanted competition within the conglomerate. Each brand is being hauled at a different market segment to compete. Longines being priced lower than Omega, and focusing on dressier watches rather than Omega's focus on sport watches.

If you have seen Stephen Urquhart's interviews on youtube, Omega is getting rid of all those ETA based calibers it sources, and fitting most of its models with the newer 8500 and 9300 in-house calibers. It also limited its quartz to four models along its entire brand. They have also devised a Tourbillon and perpetual calendar calibers. Something which no other brand on my Tier 3 has made yet. *pointing out to Rolex*

IWC uses ETA based calibers on its entry level lines, Big Pilot, Portuguese, Portofino. However, do not forget what they are also capable of, the Perpetual calendar, and the Master complication, which compete with the likes of Jaeger.

Personally, I cannot exclude Breguet, VC, and A Lange from being ranked top, what they produce in terms of quality and complications surpasses all those watches below. I would even believe that what they have produced in quantity in their entire lifes does not match what Rolex produced in say 10 years! No other watch brand has the prestige or pedigree to compete with these four. (alongide patek)

Swatch, Richemont, LVMH closed in during the 70's when the swiss watch manufacturers were about to fold up and die. Yet here they are today, better than ever. I cannot see why brands can be picked at because they are owned by a conglomerate which does not meddle with them. Yes they did fiddle with Omega, Longines, and such lower brands. However they did not put their fingers into Breguet or A Lange for example.

[s.al-anizi]

Forgot to add Graham, Jaquet Droz, Maurice Lacroix.

[Jeffa32]

Whilst I know many people like to know hierarchy of brands, it often just to understand where their purchase is in the pecking order. Some people (idiots) enjoy the one upmanship that comes with this.

Luckily we belong to a forum, which on the whole, respects people's watch choices, as they are personal choices based on their tastes etc.

I prefer to love the watches I buy and respect the choices made by others.

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by s.al-anizi

AP does not produce the complications nor has the history that Breguet has. Also do not forget their German cousin A Lange.

Audemars does indeed produce their complications, through their 100% subsidiary Renaud et Papi. To say they don't have the history is laughable and they are the only ones who are still owned by descendants of the original founders.

As for Breguet, well, Breguet as we know it was a largely defunct company (producing average watches) revived by the Chaumet brothers in the late '70s. Nothing really to do with the man. Modern Breguet can thank the Chaumet brothers and Daniel Roth.

[novan3]

Originally Posted by Dilemma

I thought VC, PP and AP were the top three swiss watch makers?

Yeah, right..aren't they what make up the holy trinity?!

As much as some may despise it, grading watch manufacturers in a tier system does exist and I don't think it's a bad idea; like cars it's a way of categorizng owners into different socio economic classes. Just the way it is.

[mjrennie]

Originally Posted by threemonkeys

I was wondering the same thing. Thanks for asking.

Me too.

[mjrennie]

Then there is a lot of variation within the brands, so certain models might rise up the scale. I have to say, purely from a personal perspective, the TAG McQueen Monaco on bracelet that I sold 2 years ago stilll causes me slight loss of sleep. It was wonderful. I'd like to buy it back.

TAG is a lousy example, I know, but I am just saying that some watches within each brand are marvellous. It's all about opinions. At the end of the day, I am Rolex all the way, they rule.

[East Bay Rider]

Someone had posted this a while back.

[Cabaiguan]

Originally Posted by s.al-anizi

IWC uses ETA based calibers on its entry level lines, Big Pilot, Portuguese, Portofino.

Some inaccuracy here. All three of these have in-house movements, including the new Portofino line.

[travisb]

Although this grading thing is just a matter of opinion and would differ from person to person.

[mfserge]

I'd move Jaeger LeCoultre to Tier 1, they have made more calibres than any other watch manufacturer, more than double the nearest competitor. I'd also add Glashutte Original to Tier 2, and Rolex to Tier 1. Otherwise nice list.

Originally Posted by s.al-anizi

Hi,

After alot of reading around here and on the watchuseek forums, I have made a conclusion that watches can be classified into roughly four separate classes, each with its own market and niche:

Tier 1:
Patek Phillipe, A Lange et Sohne, Vacheron Constantin, Breguet

Tier 2:
Jaeger Le Coultre, Audemars Piguet, Zenith, Ulysse Nardin, IWC Schaffhausen, Girard Perregaux

Tier 3:
Rolex, Omega, Blancpain, Panerai, Breitling, Baume et Mercier, Bulgari, Cartier, Chopard, Longines

Tier 4:
TAG Heuer, Ebel, Movado, Frederique Constant, Victorinox Swiss Army, Tissot

I classified those with regards to watchmaking heritage, quality, and lets face it, brand name (tier 3).

There are also other brands such as Korloff and Chaumet and many more, but these focus more on jewelery rather than watchmaking.

How do you guys agree with my list?

[stephentross]

I like watches, I don't care about a tier, I care about quality and price. Vacheron is probably my fav watch company and I have zero from them, sadly :(

resale value means nothing to me. i buy it to wear it. The ones I have will net some cash if I sell, the % lost would be ok if I sold. The price to play.

[drgleeds37]

AP is top tier, Rolex is greater than or equal to Zenith and IWC, Baume et Mercier & Longines are bottom tier on this scale.

-Daniel

[FremStar]

Originally Posted by s.al-anizi

Hi,

After alot of reading around here and on the watchuseek forums, I have made a conclusion that watches can be classified into roughly four separate classes, each with its own market and niche:

Tier 1:
Patek Phillipe, A Lange et Sohne, Vacheron Constantin, Breguet

Tier 2:
Jaeger Le Coultre, Audemars Piguet, Zenith, Ulysse Nardin, IWC Schaffhausen, Girard Perregaux

Tier 3:
Rolex, Omega, Blancpain, Panerai, Breitling, Baume et Mercier, Bulgari, Cartier, Chopard, Longines

Tier 4:
TAG Heuer, Ebel, Movado, Frederique Constant, Victorinox Swiss Army, Tissot

I classified those with regards to watchmaking heritage, quality, and lets face it, brand name (tier 3).

There are also other brands such as Korloff and Chaumet and many more, but these focus more on jewelery rather than watchmaking.

How do you guys agree with my list?

Though I am really a Rolex, Maurice Lacroix kind of guy, I really enjoyed reading your list. I printed it out and showed it to my dad who is a Vacheron, Patek kind of guy and he said you were generous putting Rolex at Tier 3 Thanks for sharing sir!

[Like To Watch]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

I prefer to do without labels and grading systems. Either I like them or I don't.
dP

I agree.