Rolex Sub Main Competitors??

[Megalobyte]

Originally Posted by Bruce185

I would also say BP FF- that and the sub are the only two watches (to me) that can be dressed up or down easily and both are tough. However, as an other poster said, the FF is not cheap. More than double the price of a "standard" sub in the UK.

Cheers,
Chi Kai

It's interesting though that a Sub C sells for maybe $1000 less than list in the secondary market. But the Fifty Fathoms sells for around 35-40% off its list. So despite the huge difference in list prices, the FF only sells for about 1k more, even though it's priced about 6-7k higher. Seems like the market has spoken on the relative value of each watch.

[xhype]

I was in omega today and all I have to say is wow you can run the crono and it will not drane the power that is amazing

[rolexsport]

if you wanna be sure you're on time all the time without spending a whole lotta cash, just remember to bring your iphone and leave your omegas or rolexes at home... at this point date or no date doesn't even matter anymore...

Originally Posted by warrior

As someone who likes and owns both Rolex and Omega, it really is refreshing to see on TRF someone who is actually knowledgeable about Omega, that sees beyond marketing and brand "cachet".

As opposed to many of the Rolex enthusiasts on TRF ( not all, of course) who probably are so drunk on the "prestige", marketing savvy, and history of the Rolex brand ...that they fail to acknowledge/ see when other mainstream luxury brands are making some serious inroads. In some ways, Omega has surpassed Rolex. The more knowledgeable always seem to run a bit "contrarian" to the TRF masses, less likely to follow the crowd. The "haute" brands are always going to appeal more to many on TRF because they're "more exclusive". Ironically, my suspicion is that the "haute" brands don't have as durable and as robust movements as the Rolex 3135 ( or Omega 8500 so far) that so many of this forum love to talk about.

[underdog33]

Thank you for this very informative and insightful response! I love my Omega and Rolex dive watches. I absolutely adored the PO Liquid Metal. Although the new PO 8500 is a beauty, it is quite thick. I continue to find the 16610 and the sub-c more comfortable to wear. Cheers.

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

The cal. 8500 is far more than just a nice looking movement, it's a mechanical masterpiece and exactly what a 21st Century movement should be. Co-Axial has been properly optimised (instead of being adapted to fit an existing movement - the fact they've got the cal. 2500 to the point where it is today is pretty impressive given its early teething problems) and is really showing its benefits now. The timekeeping accuracy that gets reported is staggeringly good. I like the dual barrel format for the mainspring as well - a bigger power reserve, and a smoother power delivery. A more traditional single barrel movement like the cal. 3135 has peaks and troughs in power delivery, which affects timekeeping - a watch running at the bottom of its power reserve has a tendency to speed up as there isn't enough power to turn the balance wheel properly.

The servicing standpoint is convincing as well - Omega are being conservative in their estimates for the servicing on the cal. 8500 and saying 5-7 years for an average service, compared to the factory recommended 3-5 years for the cal. 3135. In reality, again as the escapement has been properly optimised, it should be closer to 10 years - the fact that Omega are putting a 4 year warranty on it is a big statement of intent.

Other little things like using a silicium hairspring and balance wheel (which seems to be the way the industry is going now) make a difference as well. Rolex trumpet Parachrom a lot (which uses the same theory as a traditional hairspring, just with a different alloy), but silicon-based hairsprings are far more resilient to shocks and completely impervious to magnetic fields. Parachrom, despite its laudable anti-magnetic properties, is still metal, and simply doesn't have the elastic memory that a silicium hairspring does.

The cal. 3135 has been a great workhorse movement for Rolex, but the time is ripe for it to be put out to stud. The way I see the market going is that more and more emphasis is going to be placed on the movement - it's going to be the individual calling card for each manufacturer. Rolex actually have some serious competition now, and I think they need to bring out their own truly innovative 21st century workhorse movement.

So, the TL:DR version

The cal. 8500 -

*Looks better
*Keeps better time
*Keeps going for longer
*Needs to be serviced less
*Takes advantage of the very best technology available right now


Chris

[rolexsport]

and if you're james bond spending a whole lot of time underwater fighting evil frogmen... use a waterresistant iphone case to be sure...

[Hairdude1]

Originally Posted by rolexsport

and if you're james bond spending a whole lot of time underwater fighting evil frogmen... use a waterresistant iphone case to be sure...

[Speed]

Originally Posted by xhype

I was in omega today and all I have to say is wow you can run the crono and it will not drane the power that is amazing

Yup.

You gotta hate the power "drane"



Next watch perhaps??

[Watch Professor]

Invicta

[tkerrmd]

Originally Posted by beshannon

What crown? On the dial?

Competitor? How? Accuracy, build quality, price?

I really do not understand the thread unless it was to promote another watch.

At three posts troll comes to mind

[How]

The long-time arch rival of the Sub is the Omega Seamaster Professional 300m. Its specification, including depth rating and size, is on par and in direct competition with the Sub and was Omega's answer to the Sub many, many years ago.

The Planet Ocean, whilst closer to the Sub in price, has greater depth rating at 600m and hence I wouldn't say it is the most direct competitor on Spec. Besides, the smallest model is larger at 42mm. I would say the PO is positioned somewhere in between the Sub and the Sea-Dweller / DSSD based on spec.

James Bond even wore the SMP300 it through Pierce Brosnan.

However the Submariner IS a Submariner, the standard upon all dive watches were built from and the benchmark upon which all dive watches are measured against.

Rolex founded and pioneered the dive watch industry with the Submariner, and no one, can ever take that away from them. To this day, Rolex still is still at the pinnacle of the highly competitive dive watch game, with the world's best dive watch in the DSSD. Not mention, also having the only watch that has reached the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the Deepsea Challenge (for that matter, make it two, as the DSSD on James Cameron's wrist also reached the bottom of the trench LOL!).

As they say, imitation is the best form of flattery, and nothing or no one will ever match the legendary and iconic status that is the Submariner.

[lorsban]

I see it as 3 categories:

Tier 1: Blancpain FF - it was actually released before the Submariner.
Tier 2: Submariner, Sea-Dweller
Tier 3: Omega Seamaster
Tier 4: Breitling Superocean, Tag Aquaracer 500, others.

All with a steel case, black bezel design though its only the Sub that doesn't have a different strap option.

Of course, being that this is a Rolex forum, most would say Rolex is King but that doesn't mean the others aren't great watches as well.


Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

[Dr. Robert]

There is no competitor for any Rolex sub.

[GORT]

Originally Posted by iberfoptic

Really love the rolex sub was just wondering what you think is the main competitor to the subs crown??

Quite a lot of people are saying this watch is on build and quality....

Just curious, who are "quite a lot of people"?
There are no competitors to the Submariner. It stands alone.

[Howie]

The FF is a formidable diver as is the Submariner.

[Number3]

Originally Posted by The GMT Master

The cal. 8500 is far more than just a nice looking movement, it's a mechanical masterpiece and exactly what a 21st Century movement should be. Co-Axial has been properly optimised (instead of being adapted to fit an existing movement - the fact they've got the cal. 2500 to the point where it is today is pretty impressive given its early teething problems) and is really showing its benefits now. The timekeeping accuracy that gets reported is staggeringly good. I like the dual barrel format for the mainspring as well - a bigger power reserve, and a smoother power delivery. A more traditional single barrel movement like the cal. 3135 has peaks and troughs in power delivery, which affects timekeeping - a watch running at the bottom of its power reserve has a tendency to speed up as there isn't enough power to turn the balance wheel properly.

The servicing standpoint is convincing as well - Omega are being conservative in their estimates for the servicing on the cal. 8500 and saying 5-7 years for an average service, compared to the factory recommended 3-5 years for the cal. 3135. In reality, again as the escapement has been properly optimised, it should be closer to 10 years - the fact that Omega are putting a 4 year warranty on it is a big statement of intent.

Other little things like using a silicium hairspring and balance wheel (which seems to be the way the industry is going now) make a difference as well. Rolex trumpet Parachrom a lot (which uses the same theory as a traditional hairspring, just with a different alloy), but silicon-based hairsprings are far more resilient to shocks and completely impervious to magnetic fields. Parachrom, despite its laudable anti-magnetic properties, is still metal, and simply doesn't have the elastic memory that a silicium hairspring does.

The cal. 3135 has been a great workhorse movement for Rolex, but the time is ripe for it to be put out to stud. The way I see the market going is that more and more emphasis is going to be placed on the movement - it's going to be the individual calling card for each manufacturer. Rolex actually have some serious competition now, and I think they need to bring out their own truly innovative 21st century workhorse movement.

So, the TL:DR version

The cal. 8500 -

*Looks better
*Keeps better time
*Keeps going for longer
*Needs to be serviced less
*Takes advantage of the very best technology available right now


Chris

Excellent piece. Well argued and perfectly presented.

[Reu]

Originally Posted by Dr. Robert

There is no competitor for any Rolex sub.

This sounds like you're quoting a Rolex billboard advertisement or something...

[cremator]

Originally Posted by iberfoptic

Really love the rolex sub was just wondering what you think is the main competitor to the subs crown??

Quite a lot of people are saying this watch is on build and quality....


http://www.bremont.com/chronometers/...00-bk#selector

they dont come close to the sub

[capote]

Originally Posted by Reu

This sounds like you're quoting a Rolex billboard advertisement or something...

+1

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by Howie

The FF is a formidable diver as is the Submariner.

Some would say its better even, in terms of build and history.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

[novan3]

Originally Posted by Reu

This sounds like you're quoting a Rolex billboard advertisement or something...

We should all live for greatness on TRF.

[Reu]

Originally Posted by novan3

We should all live for greatness on TRF.

Ok. Meaning?

[warrior]

Classic. LOL

Originally Posted by Reu

This sounds like you're quoting a Rolex billboard advertisement or something...

[Psmith]

50f

[travisb]

The new PO 8500 & 9300 are right up there.
Sub is still my all time favorite though.

[SSG215]

Originally Posted by beshannon

What crown? On the dial?

Competitor? How? Accuracy, build quality, price?

I really do not understand the thread unless it was to promote another watch.

Refer to the several other posts before yours and I think you should be able to catch on to the general idea...

[roadcarver]

The Omega Seamaster Professional 2531.80.

-Great lume
-300m
-HEV
-Comfy bracelet
-No sharp edges
-AR coating on the inside of the sapphire xtal
-No cyclops :)

[topofk2]

Originally Posted by Watch Professor

Invicta

The OP wants substitute for the SUB ---- not a substitute for "crap".....

[dukerules]

OK, I love Rolex dive watches as much as the rest of you guys, but the BP FFs are in a different league. I don't see these two watches as competitors. True, the BP takes a big hit in resale, but so does just about everything compared to Rolex. Fit, finish, and the cal. 1315 movement in the current FF cannot be approached by Rolex. This isn't a surprise given the gulf in retail prices between them. However, all that said, if I could only own one watch, it would be a 16600, and I think a 116610LN would come a close second.

[azguy]

The PO is awesome, if I dove on a regular basis I would own one

[Dickson Lim]

Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore Diver and more.