Ranking in watch brands

[Luv rolex]

IMHO, if i judge in terms of quality, i'll put rolex with the tops. As i see them using high quality materials. But if we are talking about ( movement decoration, time consumed in making the watch, complications, etc.., etc..) i will exclude Rolex from the tops.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Audemars Piguet

Thanks for sharing but this ranking is nothing official nor is any ranking but it is purely subjective to the magazine. Everyone has their own criteria and rankings will change from person to person. What is most important is we each own the watches that rank highest when it comes to our own set of criteria. Judging from the watches on TRF I think we are all doing quite fine!

[FeelingTheBlues]

I wouldn't dare to rank watches with their quality, to me it's just way too subjective and when one has an advantage over the other another one can beat it in another category. To me there's just high end brands, good watches and cheaper ones and even there it would mostly be price-wise as even a cheaper watch, although it wouldn't be as well finished, complicated or accurate, could keep decent time for almost everybody.

[Luv rolex]

Well said ken and carl. The good thing is that there are too many brands to pick from for every taste . I for one love Rolex, Ap, Jlc and omega

[kb24]

pp, ap, iwc.. my 3 favs.

[GB-man]

Who makes the best street legal sports cars?

Ferrari? Lamborghini? Porsche? Mclaren? Chevrolet?

Whats important?
Is it...
Racing pedigree? Formula 1 ties? Design? Reliability? Volume? Relative Value? Nordschleife lap times? Interior fit and finish?

Point is that it's subjective.

[diver2012]

Chevrolet!?

[toph]

Originally Posted by conkers

Surely if outright quality is the main criteria then Greubel Forsey and Laurent Ferrier and perhaps even Roger Smith might get a look in? On an overall list than they wouldn't figure clearly.

Exactly right. Yet everyone puts AP as 'up there' when it is nowhere near
IMHO JLC outstrips AP by a fair way too.

[Kevin.S]

Originally Posted by subtona

Considering that most would agree that Patek is #1 ...
To me the question is what are the criteria for this consensus?

Is it the movement? If so ALS is quite competitive here, yet it is not mentioned in the top 3.
Is it resale? If so then rolex has to be next to Patek, immediately above or below.
Is it beauty? This is totally subjective as we know it is in the eye of the beholder, swatch could be #1 for some?


What Is it ... What is the consensus to the criteria for creating this list?


Finally the biggest issue imho, is that not all watches in a particular brand (like most things) are created equal, take the Omega Speedmaster Pro for example, it has many qualities that most of the Omega line do not share... To rate Omega soley on the speedy pro would be misrepresentative of the brand, & likewise to rate the brand soley on their newer products would also be less than the whole story.

I agree

[conkers]

Based on my ownership experiences of several dozen watches over several years, I would certainly take AP, RM and IWC off any list that is based on durability and not breaking!! Only have had one PP problem, and never had a problem with a JLC. Never owned a VC so can't comment on that.

JLC in my book are the most under-appreciated high end brand. Their list of movements and patents is utterly staggering.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by conkers

Based on my ownership experiences of several dozen watches over several years, I would certainly take AP, RM and IWC off any list that is based on durability and not breaking!! Only have had one PP problem, and never had a problem with a JLC. Never owned a VC so can't comment on that.

JLC in my book are the most under-appreciated high end brand. Their list of movements and patents is utterly staggering.

Ap using jlc movement should rise to the occasion

Breguet is quite accomplished as well in the patent and innovation department

[tesmith2112]

Casio, Timex, and Fossil. The true trinity!

Kidding... PP & ALS are my top two! 3rd is a revolving door for me and changes almost monthly depending on my mood and season.

[jenniferjanef]

Originally Posted by conkers

Based on my ownership experiences of several dozen watches over several years, I would certainly take AP, RM and IWC off any list that is based on durability and not breaking!! Only have had one PP problem, and never had a problem with a JLC. Never owned a VC so can't comment on that.

JLC in my book are the most under-appreciated high end brand. Their list of movements and patents is utterly staggering.

+1

From my own very limited experience, i had multiple problems with AP (especially the 44mm novelties) and RM and IWC. PP and Rolex and JLC touchwood non so far.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by conkers

Based on my ownership experiences of several dozen watches over several years, I would certainly take AP, RM and IWC off any list that is based on durability and not breaking!! Only have had one PP problem, and never had a problem with a JLC. Never owned a VC so can't comment on that.

JLC in my book are the most under-appreciated high end brand. Their list of movements and patents is utterly staggering.

I have owned 8 AP's so far and never have had an issue with any of them so I guess I am lucky. I can't speak to RM but not a brand I have ever been interested in. As for IWC had a perpetual calendar and what a pain the butt it was so would never go that route again. VC doesn't impress me anymore as I have had 2 and they were so so. As for JLC- I have owned 3: 2 Duometres and a GM RG Tourbillon and they were all beautiful and no problems. The resale on them is awful but they are truly under appreciated. I am not a fan of a lot of their offerings but their dress watches are superb. I guess I am fortunate though as I have not had problems with any watches other than a few minor easy fixes with some vintage watches. I think as I said at that level they are all well made and are nice. It comes down to personal preference and that varies from person to person! Again for me I love Patek, Rolex and AP and that works for my personal taste. All 3 have rich histories, independently owned and make some seriously quality watches. Regardless of what yours are one can't go wrong at these levels and we are all quite fortunate to own the ones we do!

[Porker]

Very subjective, I don't like how the magian graded them on marketing in one category...who gives a f*** about marketing as to how you grade a manufacturer!

[JorgeCCW]

For me

1) A.Lange & Söhne
2) Patek
3) Breguet

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by diver2012

Chevrolet!?

I threw that in there because if your criteria is relative value, performance and heritage then the corvette z06 is in the conversation.

[B. Doggy]

I personally think JLC should take VC's allocated place in the top 3. Maybe that's just me though..

[Submarino]

The Holy Trinity of watchmaking is composed by Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin and Audemars Piguet. All of them are at the same level and Audemars Piguet is the only company still in the hands of descendants of Jules Louis Audemars and Edward Auguste Piguet. Patek is now family owned by the Stern family after purchasing it back in 1932; therefore, not really still in the hands of the original families of Antoni Patek and Adrien Philippe.

Today, A. Lange & Söhne is definitely one that should be included with the Holy Trinity and perhaps turn it into the Holy Poker of watchmaking.

[conkers]

Originally Posted by Submarino

Today, A. Lange & Söhne is definitely one that should be included with the Holy Trinity and perhaps turn it into the Holy Poker of watchmaking.

Holy Fourball maybe?

[DreambreaX]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Very subjective but most would have Patek at top. The big 3 are Patek, AP and Vacheron. To each his own and at the upper level they are all high quality. To me though Patek and AP are special as they have rich histories and are both independently owned as they have not sold out to the big 2 Richemont and Swatch like others have including Vacheron....JMHO.

PS. And yes that is excluding some of the other upper end small independents like Philippe Dufour etc.

when you are talking about history, breguet and vacheron has more history.

its also since 1755 and 1775. Patek are 18's,

[HL65]

Originally Posted by DreambreaX

when you are talking about history, breguet and vacheron has more history.

its also since 1755 and 1775. Patek are 18's,

Perhaps you didn't see the words independently owned--something both Patek and AP share and Breguet and VC don't.

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Perhaps you didn't see the words independently owned--something both Patek and AP share and Breguet and VC don't.

Being independently owned is indeed something special about those two watch brands. Speaking for myself I really, really don't mind if a company is owned by a big group as for me it always comes down to what this small company does and the quality control their watches go through, however, knowing that AP is still owned by the descendants of the very people who started it and knowing that Patek hasn't been owned by many other people since its debut sure is nice to know, it gives a little traditional je ne sais quoi to the history of the brand.

I still have an awful lot of respect for Breguet and Vacheron though. Vacheron Constantin's vintage models have been known to be quite sought after by collectors (obviously not as much as Patek watches but a vintage chronograph or minute repeater will make your heart skip a beat methinks...) and Abraham Louis Breguet's passion for innovation and desire to make precise, complicated and beautiful timepieces has clearly been an influence on the Hayek's. Even as a part of the Swatch Group you can tell it's one of their favorites and the company kept getting back to the roots of the brand by trying to find collectibles all around the world and making watches that would always have a little something to remind us of its founder.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by FeelingTheBlues

Being independently owned is indeed something special about those two watch brands. Speaking for myself I really, really don't mind if a company is owned by a big group as for me it always comes down to what this small company does and the quality control their watches go through, however, knowing that AP is still owned by the descendants of the very people who started it and knowing that Patek hasn't been owned by many other people since its debut sure is nice to know, it gives a little traditional je ne sais quoi to the history of the brand.

I still have an awful lot of respect for Breguet and Vacheron though. Vacheron Constantin's vintage models have been known to be quite sought after by collectors (obviously not as much as Patek watches but a vintage chronograph or minute repeater will make your heart skip a beat methinks...) and Abraham Louis Breguet's passion for innovation and desire to make precise, complicated and beautiful timepieces has clearly been an influence on the Hayek's. Even as a part of the Swatch Group you can tell it's one of their favorites and the company kept getting back to the roots of the brand by trying to find collectibles all around the world and making watches that would always have a little something to remind us of its founder.

No question Carl on older Vacheron's. Having owned several newer ones in last 5 years I can say though I was quite disappointed with them and not impressed at all. As for Breguet they make some amazing upper end watches. As I stated though rankings are subjective and there are plenty of high end watches I would have zero interest in owning and therefore they would rank quite low on my personal list. The good news is at these levels there are plenty of options for those searching and we all can have the best watches we want that rank high on our own lists.

[Andad]

Some very interesting comments from Ken and Carl.

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

No question Carl on older Vacheron's. Having owned several newer ones in last 5 years I can say though I was quite disappointed with them and not impressed at all. As for Breguet they make some amazing upper end watches. As I stated though rankings are subjective and there are plenty of high end watches I would have zero interest in owning and therefore they would rank quite low on my personal list. The good news is at these levels there are plenty of options for those searching and we all can have the best watches we want that rank high on our own lists.

Don't get me wrong Ken, for me ranking watch brands is as subjective as it can be as well (as I said in this thread), especially when it comes to quality as a lot of different people will have different takes on what makes a watch "high quality". I do remember that you were rather disappointed in modern Vacheron's, I believe you told me that when you sold your Double-Retrograde.

You're spot-on with the last sentence of your post, in the end as long as we're happy with the watches we own and that we feel are good quality we can all enjoy this hobby and have great discussions about it. I own some very cheap (price-wise) watches that don't have any brands and they keep just as good time as my most expensive ones, buying what you like is the only way to fully enjoy the "real" quality of a watch...and it implies much more than a good movement in a good case.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Some very interesting comments from Ken and Carl.

Originally Posted by FeelingTheBlues

Don't get me wrong Ken, for me ranking watch brands is as subjective as it can be as well (as I said in this thread), especially when it comes to quality as a lot of different people will have different takes on what makes a watch "high quality". I do remember that you were rather disappointed in modern Vacheron's, I believe you told me that when you sold your Double-Retrograde.

You're spot-on with the last sentence of your post, in the end as long as we're happy with the watches we own and that we feel are good quality we can all enjoy this hobby and have great discussions about it. I own some very cheap (price-wise) watches that don't have any brands and they keep just as good time as my most expensive ones, buying what you like is the only way to fully enjoy the "real" quality of a watch...and it implies much more than a good movement in a good case.

[el1125]

PP # 1. AP and Rolex

[robertgrom]

Here's the list for "high end luxury"
Patek Phillippe
Vacheron Constantin
Audemars Piguet
Lange & Sohne
Jaeger LeCoultre
Breguet
As for Rolex - it is the most recognized and popular watch brand in the world...

[thurgood]

PP=elegance/history
AP=innovation/history
Rolex=recognition/reliability

There you have my ranking