Seadweller 1665 vs 16660 vs 16600 vs SD4000

[improviz]

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

It has nothing to do with their service centers. It's their policies. They refused to sell me a steel bezel to replace the rubber one. They even acknowledged that the rubber bezel was poor and steel would be a better option, and they still did not want to help me out. They even told me to go buy another watch if I didn't like the bezel. I was furious that they even would suggest it. My dealer even quit selling AP watches because he absolutely hated the way they do business. You can't even order spare parts unless the old ones are sent back first. They basically use the dealers as puppets and are a huge pain in the a**.

It seems they would rather have a customer be completely dissatisfied with their very expensive product than do one little simple thing like providing a steel spare part. It's arrogance. And their service prices are absolutely ridiculous. I've been to their factory. They'll smile and gladly take your money, but as soon as you request some real customer service or anything slightly out of the ordinary, they will go out of their way to not do it.

Try the following: send in an SS GMT IIc to Rolex and ask them to replace the bezel with that of a BLNR or a WG Pepsi and see how far you get. Hint: you won't get very far. In fact they won't send you any bezel full stop, you need to get it done via RSC or a Rolex-certified watchmaker.

What you are describing is pretty much standard operating procedure among the Swiss watch manufacturers, and in my understanding AP is much better than Rolex in this regard: ex: I can call Clearwater up right now and order a bracelet for my AP Diver, no problems, even though this is not an OEM part for the watch, and no, I do not have to send them back my rubber strap first. OTOH if I get in touch with RSC and tell them I'd like a strap with end pieces for my SS Daytona, they will politely tell me "hell no".

And Rolex won't send you, directly, spare parts at all, for any reason, whether or not you send back in the other parts, unless you happen to be a Rolex-certified service tech.

Service prices are always higher with more expensive watches. No surprise there....you get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

No real reason for a comparison shot between the two, as the Offshore has roughly the same dimensions as a Deep-Sea, and there are plenty comparison pictures with that.

OK so can you please post up a pic of your Offshore standalone? Just curious.

[DamageInc.77]

Originally Posted by AK797

Their policy is they will only replace like for like, not steel for rubber, so calm down your rantings. Compare this to Rolex stealing your dial/bezel if you ask for and pay for a new one to be put on your watch without even telling you this will be done. AP's customer service has a fine reputation on this forum and seems to far exceed Rolex's.

Just because it's a policy does not make it ok. They have made a poor product and are unwilling to fix it. I don't want to start a debate, I am just sharing my experience with AP.

[DamageInc.77]

Originally Posted by improviz

Try the following: send in an SS GMT IIc to Rolex and ask them to replace the bezel with that of a BLNR or a WG Pepsi and see how far you get. Hint: you won't get very far. In fact they won't send you any bezel full stop, you need to get it done via RSC or a Rolex-certified watchmaker.

What you are describing is pretty much standard operating procedure among the Swiss watch manufacturers, and in my understanding AP is much better than Rolex in this regard: ex: I can call Clearwater up right now and order a bracelet for my AP Diver, no problems, even though this is not an OEM part for the watch, and no, I do not have to send them back my rubber strap first. OTOH if I get in touch with RSC and tell them I'd like a strap with end pieces for my SS Daytona, they will politely tell me "hell no".

And Rolex won't send you, directly, spare parts at all, for any reason, whether or not you send back in the other parts, unless you happen to be a Rolex-certified service tech.

Service prices are always higher with more expensive watches. No surprise there....you get what you pay for.



OK so can you please post up a pic of your Offshore standalone? Just curious.

Again, just because it is policy, does not make it ok. I have spent a large sum of money on their watch and they deny a simple little bezel change. It doesn't go any further than that.

And Rolex are just as bad in that department as AP. I've not had these problems with many other brands, including Urban Jürgensen and A. Lange. The company can either choose to help out their customer or they can choose not to. AP has chosen not to.

Here is a photo. I am on my third bezel in 11 years. I've actually considered making a bezel myself in my cousins workshop. I've got the steel and all I need now are the measurements which I want to get via laser-scanning. I can buy a crocodile strap no problem. Once I am done, I'll have myself a Safari.

[Karbo]

Originally Posted by Baselman

Please instruct them only to service the movement - can you post pics please

Originally Posted by Clay

Let me be perfectly honest….I have NEVER met a Sea Dweller that I haven't loved...

And I have owned ALL of them at one time or another…!!!


And, after having owned them all, I can say without a doubt that the 666 is simply the best Sea Dweller you can have...

I will spare you all of the twaddle about why...

But I will say this…If you have never seen the Matte Dial 666 in person…If you have never looked at the 666's Matte Dial through the flat sapphire Crystal…

Then you have NO Idea what you are missing...

Why did you sell your 1665 ? Why do you prefer 666 vs 1665 ?

[Baselman]

Yes it doesn't make it right but reason why all the "big" Swiss watchmakers do that is to control their watch images otherwise there would be all kinds of customer mods being created. Image is everything and controlling the brand is key - look at vladdys watches who'd beleive Rolex made those ? Some do but if it wasn't for Rolex strict image controls many wouldn't know if what they bought was original or not, and this control is in my eyes a good thing.
Everyone is free to modify their watch in any way that choose to do so however knowing that they are then on their own.

[DamageInc.77]

Originally Posted by Baselman

Yes it doesn't make it right but reason why all the "big" Swiss watchmakers do that is to control their watch images otherwise there would be all kinds of customer mods being created. Image is everything and controlling the brand is key - look at vladdys watches who'd beleive Rolex made those ? Some do but if it wasn't for Rolex strict image controls many wouldn't know if what they bought was original or not, and this control is in my eyes a good thing.
Everyone is free to modify their watch in any way that choose to do so however knowing that they are then on their own.

Sure that is understandable, but in this case the watch would literally just be a Safari model after the bezel change. Not a frankenstein or custom watch.

[alanc]

http://www.watchprosite.com/show-for...-16660-review/

-including one of Dr. Evil:

[improviz]

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

Again, just because it is policy, does not make it ok. I have spent a large sum of money on their watch and they deny a simple little bezel change. It doesn't go any further than that.

And Rolex are just as bad in that department as AP. I've not had these problems with many other brands, including Urban Jürgensen and A. Lange. The company can either choose to help out their customer or they can choose not to. AP has chosen not to.

Here is a photo. I am on my third bezel in 11 years. I've actually considered making a bezel myself in my cousins workshop. I've got the steel and all I need now are the measurements which I want to get via laser-scanning. I can buy a crocodile strap no problem. Once I am done, I'll have myself a Safari.

Actually imo Rolex is worse in this regard, per the examples I provided in my previous post. This is why I was puzzled: you seemed to be contrasting AP's service with that of Rolex, it now appears that this was not the case, a misunderstanding on my part it would seem.

It is unfortunate that AP will not provide you with a bezel, but as mentioned this is SOP with the Swiss watch manufacturers with whom I'm familiar, cannot speak to the other brands you mentioned but if they allow this it's great.

Very nice watch, thanks for sharing picture. Actually I think it looks better with the black bezel, and keep in mind that if you're prone to banging up the rubber one, unless scratches and dings really don't bother you, the steel one may not be satisfactory either.

That's one area in which SD definitely wins, it can handle more knocking around and still look great. Hard to beat those old Rolex inserts as if they get damaged it's a simple and relatively inexpensive matter to replace.

[DamageInc.77]

Originally Posted by improviz

Actually imo Rolex is worse in this regard, per the examples I provided in my previous post. This is why I was puzzled: you seemed to be contrasting AP's service with that of Rolex, it now appears that this was not the case, a misunderstanding on my part it would seem.

It is unfortunate that AP will not provide you with a bezel, but as mentioned this is SOP with the Swiss watch manufacturers with whom I'm familiar, cannot speak to the other brands you mentioned but if they allow this it's great.

Very nice watch, thanks for sharing picture. Actually I think it looks better with the black bezel, and keep in mind that if you're prone to banging up the rubber one, unless scratches and dings really don't bother you, the steel one may not be satisfactory either.

That's one area in which SD definitely wins, it can handle more knocking around and still look great. Hard to beat those old Rolex inserts as if they get damaged it's a simple and relatively inexpensive matter to replace.

I'm glad we understand each other.

It's not that I knock my watches around, in fact I am extremely careful with them, it's that the rubber bezel takes scratches incredibly easily. Drag it along a wall, or a rough table, and it will turn a dull grey. I have plenty of steel watches, as well as a few gold and platinum, and none of them are banged up or severely scratched.

But price, service and everything else aside, I just like the 16600 better. I wear it more than anything else I have. It's sturdy, beautiful, functional and understated. I love everything about it.

[Baselman]

I personally would welcome a Rolex customising service where customers could create their own unique certified models to some degree. Luxury brands like Ferrari offer bespoke services I know it's comparing apples to oranges but an in house Rolex custom bespoke service would be superb.

[Clay]

Originally Posted by Karbo

Why did you sell your 1665 ? Why do you prefer 666 vs 1665 ?

Why do people prefer Chocolate over vanilla (OR vis-a-versa)

Don't misunderstand me…I think the 1665 is a fantastic watch…

But I found the 666 felt more comfortable to wear, not that the 1665 was "uncomfortable"…

I found that the dial (as they are both almost identical) was much nicer looking when viewed through the flat crystal vs the domed crystal…

I liked the look of the larger HEV

I liked the quick set date

I like the SEL 93160

I liked that fact that most of the Bezel Pearls tended to develop that lovely "Amber" tone to them…

I also liked that they were more rare then the 1665

All kidding aside, I don't really believe that one is "Better" then the other...

It's just a matter of personal preference...

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Baselman

I personally would welcome a Rolex customising service where customers could create their own unique certified models to some degree. Luxury brands like Ferrari offer bespoke services I know it's comparing apples to oranges but an in house Rolex custom bespoke service would be superb.

I get what you mean but IMHO Rolex would harm their models by doing so. Their stable lineup is very important for keeping the brand's prestige, and if one could have many different combinations, let's say for a Submariner, they would put the model's identity in danger. But again this is my humble point of view.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by alanc

http://www.watchprosite.com/show-for...-16660-review/

-including one of Dr. Evil:

Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed that.

[Baselman]

Originally Posted by FTX I

I get what you mean but IMHO Rolex would harm their models by doing so. Their stable lineup is very important for keeping the brand's prestige, and if one could have many different combinations, let's say for a Submariner, they would put the model's identity in danger. But again this is my humble point of view.

Yes it won't happen but it would be nice to say have "options" to a minor degree for example when buying a SDC an option of flat of domed crystal - this is a minor option of crystal style but not changing the watch.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Baselman

Yes it won't happen but it would be nice to say have "options" to a minor degree for example when buying a SDC an option of flat of domed crystal - this is a minor option of crystal style but not changing the watch.

Pandora's box my friend. Cheers

[improviz]

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

I'm glad we understand each other.

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

It's not that I knock my watches around, in fact I am extremely careful with them, it's that the rubber bezel takes scratches incredibly easily. Drag it along a wall, or a rough table, and it will turn a dull grey. I have plenty of steel watches, as well as a few gold and platinum, and none of them are banged up or severely scratched.

Hmm...well with the exception of the carbon models (and even then you've got to be careful for certain wall materials which will scratch sapphire so even Rolex is risky there), I wouldn't think of dragging any AP along a wall (or any Rolex for that matter), but I am picky in that regard...

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

But price, service and everything else aside, I just like the 16600 better. I wear it more than anything else I have. It's sturdy, beautiful, functional and understated. I love everything about it.

It is a beautiful watch and one of my favorites, I managed to find an M series BNIB at a great price a year or so ago and snapped it up post-haste. I owe you a picture:

[DamageInc.77]

Originally Posted by improviz

Hmm...well with the exception of the carbon models (and even then you've got to be careful for certain wall materials which will scratch sapphire so even Rolex is risky there), I wouldn't think of dragging any AP along a wall (or any Rolex for that matter), but I am picky in that regard...



It is a beautiful watch and one of my favorites, I managed to find an M series BNIB at a great price a year or so ago and snapped it up post-haste. I owe you a picture:

Looking fantastic! And when I meant wall, I meant an indoor wall. I would never drag a watch along an exterior wall with brick or whatnot. I do sometimes scrape the walls inside with my watch. Not on purpose of course, but it happens.

[improviz]

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

Looking fantastic! And when I meant wall, I meant an indoor wall. I would never drag a watch along an exterior wall with brick or whatnot. I do sometimes scrape the walls inside with my watch. Not on purpose of course, but it happens.

Thanks! Oh yeah, I was thinking interior wall as well, there's a certain kind of material they use to cover walls, forget its name, but basically it's got speckles in it which are made out of some silicon variant that is, as it turns out, pert damn near as hard as a diamond. It'll do a right number on a sapphire crystal, and pretty much anything else on there.

Can't think of the name, but it's lethal, I ruined a lovely Seiko that was my pride and joy in college literally a week after I got it on that stuff, I was devastated. It was probably from this traumatic experience that my OCD with watches originated!

[sennheiserz]

Update: I went into a few stores today, tried on the 16600 (white tritium on the hands/markers, no patina) and the SD4000. I think I liked the 16600 more if I'm being honest with myself, although the new SD4000 does shine and sparkle like crazy. It felt kinda big and crazy on my barely 6.5" wrist, whereas the 16600 felt like a tiny tank, bigger feel than a sub, not as common, and I honestly preferred the black gloss to the somewhat fake looking matte dial of the SD4000. I put the SD4000 next to my 1680 and the matte dial was almost black in comparison to the vintage one.

[DamageInc.77]

Originally Posted by improviz

Thanks! Oh yeah, I was thinking interior wall as well, there's a certain kind of material they use to cover walls, forget its name, but basically it's got speckles in it which are made out of some silicon variant that is, as it turns out, pert damn near as hard as a diamond. It'll do a right number on a sapphire crystal, and pretty much anything else on there.

Can't think of the name, but it's lethal, I ruined a lovely Seiko that was my pride and joy in college literally a week after I got it on that stuff, I was devastated. It was probably from this traumatic experience that my OCD with watches originated!

Yeah, my walls don't have that. I am sorry to hear yours do.

My walls are so soft I use them to massage my dog. THEY ARE SO SOFT THEY WILL STRAIGHT UP OUT-SOFT A LITTLE LAMB COVERED IN FABRIC SOFTENER.

[sennheiserz]

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

Yeah, my walls don't have that. I am sorry to hear yours do.

My walls are so soft I use them to massage my dog. THEY ARE SO SOFT THEY WILL STRAIGHT UP OUT-SOFT A LITTLE LAMB COVERED IN FABRIC SOFTENER.

I don't know what you guys are talking about anymore !

[DamageInc.77]

Originally Posted by sennheiserz

Update: I went into a few stores today, tried on the 16600 (white tritium on the hands/markers, no patina) and the SD4000. I think I liked the 16600 more if I'm being honest with myself, although the new SD4000 does shine and sparkle like crazy. It felt kinda big and crazy on my barely 6.5" wrist, whereas the 16600 felt like a tiny tank, bigger feel than a sub, not as common, and I honestly preferred the black gloss to the somewhat fake looking matte dial of the SD4000. I put the SD4000 next to my 1680 and the matte dial was almost black in comparison to the vintage one.

I am not a fan of the new Sea-Dweller. I think anything else would be a better option. As I stated previously, I greatly enjoy my 16600's, but you should go for what sings to you.

Keep looking and eventually you will find the one you really want.

[improviz]

Originally Posted by DamageInc.77

Yeah, my walls don't have that. I am sorry to hear yours do.

My walls are so soft I use them to massage my dog. THEY ARE SO SOFT THEY WILL STRAIGHT UP OUT-SOFT A LITTLE LAMB COVERED IN FABRIC SOFTENER.

Nah my walls don't have that, this was at the university. Actually right now my walls are padded, and I'll be fitted for a straightjacket anytime now.

[Tobbe.l]

A Swedish Classic Midnight Summer SD4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1h9Vx-nDns

[sennheiserz]

Originally Posted by Tobbe.l

A Swedish Classic Midnight Summer SD4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1h9Vx-nDns

Man that song was hypnotic...

[Recaro18]

16600.... Loving mine!