What does the new Pelagos mean for the old version?

[DKRanger22]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

???Tudor makes submariners: They are called Black Bay!

I don't disagree with this, but the person that I quoted apparently does. Technically, it's not a Submariner, but in my mind...

• Tudor Black Bay = Submariner
• Tudor Pelagos = SeaDweller

[kooltzar]

Exactly. Cheap way to get one.

[DKRanger22]

Originally Posted by RollieVerde

The Black Bay is the closest thing to the original Tudor Submariner, and when you get an appraisal on the latter they quote the price of the former as replacement cost. The Pelagos is a Tudor Sea-Dweller.

100% agree.

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

???Tudor makes submariners: They are called Black Bay!

Originally Posted by RollieVerde

The Black Bay is the closest thing to the original Tudor Submariner, and when you get an appraisal on the latter they quote the price of the former as replacement cost. The Pelagos is a Tudor Sea-Dweller.

The post was reflecting Fleetlords comment about 'submariner', in which I believe he was referring to the ROLEX submariner - not Tudor.

[kooltzar]

+1

[RollieVerde]

Originally Posted by handsfull

The post was reflecting Fleetlords comment about 'submariner', in which I believe he was referring to the ROLEX submariner - not Tudor.

That's not who's post I was referring to. I understand Fleetlord's point, but I was addressing the post (DKRanger22) saying that the Pelagos is the closest thing to the Tudor Submariner since they don't make it anymore. I see people saying all the time that the Pelagos is the new Tudor Submariner, and it really isn't. It's a whole new technical dive watch. That said, the Black Bay to me is a dive watch aimed at people that don't dive-no crown guards, no wet suit extension clasp, a more modest WR rating, etc. You can certainly dive with it, but it's not as focused as a "real" dive watch. The Pelagos is designed to be used regularly for diving, much as the original Tudor Submariner was, so in a way I guess they do have a point.

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by RollieVerde

That's not who's post I was referring to.

But that's who's post Dkranger was quoting in his post, but it's all good

[DKRanger22]

Originally Posted by RollieVerde

That's not who's post I was referring to. I understand Fleetlord's point, but I was addressing the post (DKRanger22) saying that the Pelagos is the closest thing to the Tudor Submariner since they don't make it anymore. I see people saying all the time that the Pelagos is the new Tudor Submariner, and it really isn't. It's a whole new technical dive watch. That said, the Black Bay to me is a dive watch aimed at people that don't dive-no crown guards, no wet suit extension clasp, a more modest WR rating, etc. You can certainly dive with it, but it's not as focused as a "real" dive watch. The Pelagos is designed to be used regularly for diving, much as the original Tudor Submariner was, so in a way I guess they do have a point.

See my above post. Again, in my mind, the Pelagos is actually the closet thing to a SeaDweller (perhaps semantics are at play here).

I do agree that the Black Bay, while certainly capable of being a "dive watch", is not as focused towards being a true "dive watch" as say a true Submariner or the Pelagos. Nevertheless, the Black Bay is the closest thing in the existing Tudor lineup to the Rolex Sub, and the same is true of the Pelagos and SeaDweller.

[DKRanger22]

Originally Posted by handsfull

But that's who's post Dkranger was quoting in his post, but it's all good

Bingo

[kooltzar]

No point discussing this in full lenght. Otherwise we could say the Rolex sub (and especially the early one with no crown guards) is no divers watch as there is the sea dweller.

In Tudor terms the Black Bay is the revival of their old sub model and the Pelagos is their dive watch comparable to the sea dweller. Full stop.

This thread was about the ETA Pelagos' value in the future and housing the most common movement on earth, it will not become a rare collectable watch, especially as the model will not ceased to be produced and will house a much more sought after COSC movement. A few lines on the dial will no make any difference there.

[JDR888]

I'd love to revisit this thread in 10/20/30 years time to see how it's played out??

Going back to the crux of the thread, keep what you've got and remember that what you've got in its current form (movement & 2-liner dial) will not be made any more and has only had a production run of 2/3 years max.

The in-house movement is here for keeps.

Fast forward 20 years and I'd much rather have a WIS conversation about my twenty year old Pelagos along the lines of "But this is an ETA movement Pelagos with a 2 line dial and ETA movement - they only made them for a couple of years"

[DKRanger22]

Originally Posted by JDR888

I'd love to revisit this thread in 10/20/30 years time to see how it's played out??

Going back to the crux of the thread, keep what you've got and remember that what you've got in its current form (movement & 2-liner dial) will not be made any more and has only had a production run of 2/3 years max.

The in-house movement is here for keeps.

Fast forward 20 years and I'd much rather have a WIS conversation about my twenty year old Pelagos along the lines of "But this is an ETA movement Pelagos with a 2 line dial and ETA movement - they only made them for a couple of years"

This could very well turn out to be the case. It's not like the ETA movement is plagued with issues. It's a solid movement, and if I already owned a Pelgaos, I wouldn't feel any need whatsoever to upgrade simply because the movement is now being made in-house (unless, of course, you HAD to have the blue...).

[handsfull]

The truth is, NO ONE can predict what will be collectible. Full stop.

I didnt buy a Pelagos for 'collectability' - I bought it to wear because it's legible face/dial/AR crystal, excellent proportions, lightweight, and awesome bracelet. If I wanted collectible, I know other models that suit that bill.

[fania123]

Lots of truth right there.

Originally Posted by handsfull

The truth is, NO ONE can predict what will be collectible. Full stop.

I didnt buy a Pelagos for 'collectability' - I bought it to wear because it's legible face/dial/AR crystal, excellent proportions, lightweight, and awesome bracelet. If I wanted collectible, I know other models that suit that bill.

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by JDR888

I'd love to revisit this thread in 10/20/30 years time to see how it's played out??

Going back to the crux of the thread, keep what you've got and remember that what you've got in its current form (movement & 2-liner dial) will not be made any more and has only had a production run of 2/3 years max.

The in-house movement is here for keeps.

Fast forward 20 years and I'd much rather have a WIS conversation about my twenty year old Pelagos along the lines of "But this is an ETA movement Pelagos with a 2 line dial and ETA movement - they only made them for a couple of years"

Spot on.

[kooltzar]

No one questions the reliability of an ETA 2824, but being the most produced movement in watch history it simply will never be a collectible and that goes for any watch housing it. I don't see how there can be a discussion on such a simple fact.

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by DKRanger22

This could very well turn out to be the case. It's not like the ETA movement is plagued with issues. It's a solid movement, and if I already owned a Pelgaos, I wouldn't feel any need whatsoever to upgrade simply because the movement is now being made in-house (unless, of course, you HAD to have the blue...).

The Blue is nice but there's a massive amount of hype around it at the moment - IMO driven by the lack of anything remotely interesting from Rolex. To get into a similar colour combo with Rolex you're into a SMURF and the associated cost of precious metal.

Would I choose Blue over Black - not in a heart beat because I think Black keeps it where it should be - under the radar. The Blue screams that much more to me in comparison. Again personal choice.

I'm not or never been a movement snob - so the real clincher for me is the cleaner dial of the ETA.

[Jake B]

They're mass produced modern Tudor dive watches...not investments. Yes, one has an in house movt in it but it's a Tudor in house movt....not a Patek. Get the one you like & wear it. I like the two~liner dial but I also love the colour blue. Looks as though I could end up with both!

[DKRanger22]

Originally Posted by JDR888

The Blue is nice but there's a massive amount of hype around it at the moment - IMO driven by the lack of anything remotely interesting from Rolex. To get into a similar colour combo with Rolex you're into a SMURF and the associated cost of precious metal.

I think the "hype" is twofold: 1.) Lack of anything interesting from Rolex as you pointed out, but also (and IMHO more importantly).... 2.) There has been an incredible demand - for years - for a blue dive watch in a more affordable configuration than the Smurf, and the cries to fulfill that demand have finally been answered. Some may be disappointed that this watch wears a shield rather than a crown, but I believe that most people who have been hoping/praying for a blue diver understood that Rolex would never put a stainless watch in the lineup that could potentially cannibalize the Smurf. A blue Tudor dive watch does not threaten the Smurf in any way, and in my opinion, is the best solution to appease both camps.

[kooltzar]

A 5513 also has a cleaner dial than a 5512, still the 5512 has a much higher value, as it is COSC (better movement).

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by theprocess

If the eta pelagos drops to that pricepoint I will pick one up for sure (even previously loved). Dont really care about eta vs inhouse and the old dial is much cleaner.

Yep they have really shagged the dial on the new one, 5 lines of text and missing lume marker from the 3 o'clock.

[kooltzar]

The had to get rid of the lume, as the movement is wider than the ETA was, so the datewheel is further out

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by the joker

yep they have really shagged the dial on the new one, 5 lines of text and missing lume marker from the 3 o'clock.

+1.

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

....being the most produced movement in watch history it simply will never be a collectible and that goes for any watch housing it. I don't see how there can be a discussion on such a simple fact.

Whether it's the most produced movement in history does not solidly or nullify potential for collectability.

Imagine if one could go back in time and ask the buyers of the Accutron spaceview if they knew they were buying a future collectible, I bet I'd know the answer.

[kooltzar]

The Accutron does not have a very common ¨widespread movemnt, on the contrary, it is a special rare movement

[kooltzar]

.. and although the Accutron (also for me) is a collectible, prices for it are very low (300 to 500 in Switzerland)

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by kooltzar

The had to get rid of the lume, as the movement is wider than the ETA was, so the datewheel is further out

What they couldn't made the movement a bit smaller?

It's designed and made "in-house" after all.

[kooltzar]

I think we should just agree on that you don't buy a Tudor for investment, but because you like it.

[JDR888]

Originally Posted by handsfull

Whether it's the most produced movement in history does not solidly or nullify potential for collectability.

Imagine if one could go back in time and ask the buyers of the Accutron spaceview if they knew they were buying a future collectible, I bet I'd know the answer.

Totally agree.

As I mentioned in my previous post - I'm not or have never been a movement snob

[kooltzar]

Originally Posted by The Joker

What they couldn't made the movement a bit smaller?

It's designed and made "in-house" after all.

But it is not only made for one model