Another One Of "Those" Threads: 14060M vs. Black Bay

[tkerrmd]

I prefer the sub

[NoVaSubowner]

Having owned one I am not a huge fan of the BB.

I think the design is a gimmick, do you really need a case that thick for 600 ft WR? The lack of crown guards and the aluminum ring around the crown say wannabe tool watch rather then the real deal....

Now if Rolex had taken the old 14060 case and reintroduced the line in the guise of a 7090 Tudor Sub I would still own one. The cool thing about Tudor was the Rolex casing at an affordable price point. You essentially got a Rolex design for half the $$$ due to the base ETA movement.

I would take your PO and Speedy all day every day of the week against a Tudor. If the 14060 image bothers you, and that is understandable, consider other watches. If you want a Rolex, the Expl one or any of the No-Date OP's fills the bill in terms of nondescriptness.

Or, you can look at IWC, Breitling, both of whom offer really nice pieces that escape the attention of everyone but the WIS's that hang around here.

But then again, if you really want the BB..... Go for it.

[joshuagull]

Originally Posted by jjnd08

It sounds like you like the Black Bay more, but the name on the dial of the 14060 is luring you away.

And the history/heritage. And the universal flexibility of the design. I haven't mentioned it but with the Black Bay I feel it only works on the bracelet due to the case thickness. Others may disagree but I just don't like it on leather or fabric. With the 14060 I feel it works as well on any strap, leather or fabric/nato, as it does on the bracelet.

I think if my main three watch rotation was the Planet Ocean, Speedmaster Pro and 14060 then I'd wake up in the morning and put the Planet Ocean on, then away from work it would be a simple decision of whether or not I was going to be around water or wanted to wear a watch on a bracelet. If so I'd grab the Sub and know it would go with anything and be okay anywhere. Otherwise I'd grab the Speedmaster. With the Black Bay, due to the niche styling, it would be a lot more specific and I feel like I'd be wearing my Planet Ocean a lot more away from work in conjunction with the Black Bay. So it may come down to whether or not I want the versatility the Black Bay would offer aesthetically alongside the Planet Ocean and Speedmaster or if I'd rather get the 14060 and slot the three watches into specific roles (work watch, casual watch, casual go-anywhere watch).

Good stuff guys. This is helping me to think it all through and hash it out. A lot to consider.

[mquintie]

I've been struggling with a similar decision, and I can add my 2 cents here:

The Black Bay is a beautiful watch - I have tried it on and fell in love. (especially with the burgundy).

The 14060 is a fantastic watch - looks and feels great in all situations.

I have come to the conclusion that i WANT a Rolex in my collection, so Tudor doesn't do it for me in this case, so out it went. I have added an Explorer 214270 to the mix.

I really did some research and the 214270 has a rich history similar to the 14060 (if thats important to you) but a key feature of the 214270 is that I believe it can be dressed up or down more easily.

I am still on the fence as I love the sub too.

I will throw out there too that the 14060 will be used and the Black Bay or Explorer will be new if that is something you consider.

Just throwing it out there.

Thanks
Mike

[joshuagull]

I do like the Explorer quite a bit, and the Explorer II, but if it's my own money then it has to be a dive watch for this particular watch. I use the dive bezel countless times per day to time various things, and doing without a timing bezel just won't work.

[RazorD]

Both are great choices. I can't see a dress situation where the 14060 wouldn't work. That would get the slight edge if it was my decision.

[TheGanzman]

Glad to see that you're considering the advice I proffered on WUS vis a vis a Rolex Submariner...

My opinion stands on either a 2-Line or 4-Line 14060, assuming that you're in it "for the long run", given your age. After having owned 50-60 mechanical watches and seven Rolex Submariners, I'm "back" to a Sub 14060M COSC - and I'm back to STAY! No - it's not as "visually stimulating" as the BB, but let's call that another applicable term - "stylized". The BB is more stylized IMHO - almost like it doesn't KNOW what it wants to be when it grows up. The Submariner Ref#14060 is an exquisite and proper "evolution" of the original Submariner - an evolution which IMHO they have taken askew in the latest 114060...

As time goes on, I believe that the 14060 will continue to be recognized as "the one", due to it being truly "the best of all Worlds" Submariner-wise: Classic case/lugs shape, classic dial configuration(s), classic hand configuration, classic bezel/insert configuration, classic bracelet configuration - all this with the benefits of a more durable sapphire crystal and a more durable movement. It is truly "the sweet spot" of Submariners - and one that you won't have to "worry over" like you would with a vintage watch - at least until IT too becomes "vintage"!

[Solo118]

14060m all the way! It is THE classic Sub!

The black bay is beautiful, but I think of it more as a second or third diver watch to mix it up a bit as they have fun bezel colors.

Quick edit: Maybe sell the Omega and try to find a 114060 within budget? I can honestly say I would rather not have 2 black dial divers.

[joshuagull]

Really helpful input guys. A few thoughts...

If I'm being honest with myself, I feel that I may be trying to talk myself out of the Sub due to price and the Rolex stigma. Wearing a Rolex coming from the upbringing I came from just feels strange. But as someone once told me, never be ashamed of your success. A 14060 in the condition I want is going to be a sizable jump in price over the Black Bay too. So I think I may be trying to talk myself out of the Sub and into the Black Bay.

Good points were made about the Black Bay being so stylized. And considering the role I want this watch to fill--an away from work, casual, go anywhere and do anything type of watch--the classic styling, lighter weight, smaller size and timelessness of the Sub is honestly probably the better fit. I'll sleep on it a while and think hard about which watch I'd rather see on my wrist when I look down to check the time.

Currently I'm leaning towards picking up a clean 2-line 14060M with lume and lug holes with the plain rehaut if I can find one in the shape I want for the price I want to pay (did all 2-line 14060Ms have lume, lug holes and clean rehaut?) to serve as my go-to watch away from work when I want a watch on bracelet or if I'll be around water (otherwise I'll grab the Speedy on leather). Then if I can't shake the Black Bay bug after that I'll consider getting one of those down the road. We'll see if that's how it plays out or not but those are my current leanings.

[Old Expat Beast]

The Black Bay case is quite thick, but it has a flat back. If you take into account the convex back of the Sub, the difference in overall thickness of both watches is not very different. The flat back of the BB also lets it sit more comfortably on the wrist than the Sub, which tends to float around if you don't keep the bracelet tight.

[TheGanzman]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The Black Bay case is quite thick, but it has a flat back. If you take into account the convex back of the Sub, the difference in overall thickness of both watches is not very different. The flat back of the BB also lets it sit more comfortably on the wrist than the Sub, which tends to float around if you don't keep the bracelet tight.

I don't know about the fit of the BB, but I must beg to differ on the Sub fit - at least on MY 7 1/8" wrist. I have the 93150 bracelet fitted "snugly" (as in: 24 hour wear), and that thing hugs my wrist like a leech...

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by TheGanzman

I don't know about the fit of the BB, but I must beg to differ on the Sub fit - at least on MY 7 1/8" wrist. I have the 93150 bracelet fitted "snugly" (as in: 24 hour wear), and that thing hugs my wrist like a leech...

Ok, maybe I should have said snug rather than tight. For me, the BB just flops on the wrist like a slice of cold salami (if we're doing metaphors) with the bracelet slightly loose enough to accommodate changes in temp and humidity.

[pyac76]

Based on your thoughts, I would suggest the Black Bay. You could consider the one with the Blue Bezel. I like the large crown as it reminiscent of the original Big Crown Sub. The gilt markers also look for vintage like a 5513 than the WG surrounds of the 14060. However, Heritage22 makes a great point. Try to find a Tudor 9401 that is in your price range. You get vintage without the 5513 price. Good luck with whichever you choose, you have great options.

[Lew Archer]

Initially, I was going to advise that you get the Black Bay, as it seemed you were more passionate about its design overall. However, your later posts indicate your ambivalence about the Rolex Submariner are due to perception issues, not watch design concerns.

Go with the one you WANT. It's best to let this be an emotional decision, not an intellectual one. Decide with your heart, not your head. The watch that makes your heart beat faster, that's the one. Don't fret over how it fits into your collection (head based, analytical distraction).

Be true to your heart's desire and damn the rest...including others' perceptions. That's their issue, not yours. Your buying it, with money you earned fair and square. Answer to your heart and no one...and nothing...else.

If you do, you can't go wrong.

Many years ago, I wanted the Sub. I had my Dad's Speedmaster Professional. I talked myself out of the Sub out of a concern about another watch with a black bezel. I wound up buying an Omega Seamaster, with the blue bezel. Fine watch and then in use in the Pierce Brosnan Bond films. Less expensive, too. A solid choice. A dive watch that wasn't black...and even gave a sense of collection...it was another Omega, after all.

Deep down, though, I still wanted the Sub. I eventually got a 14060M COSC. I still have the Seamaster, but the Submariner is my favorite of the two.

Buy the one you WANT...

Do that, and your contentment will be lasting....

Do that and it will cost less money, in the long run...
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[joshuagull]

Sage advice, Lew Archer. Very well said.

[toneafficianado]

14060M is the best "first Rolex"
You can remove the "tuna can" bracelet yourself ,because it has lug holes, and put on any number os light weight and cheap nato or leather straps making it the perfect watch to wear in any work environment. I'm wearing mine now. Plus it's nice that it's look is in many ways like the older more collectible Subs but its sapphire crystal means you can swim in it , no worries!

[pyac76]

Based on what you have said, it seems the Back Bay is the best choice. You add color, red or blue, plus the big crown is reminiscent of the early Rolex Subs. The domed crystal on the Tudor is a big plus. The 14060 with its flat crystal kicks off a reflection that can be annoying. I also agree with Heritage22, you could look for a vintage Tudor 94010 to try and fit your vintage desires, though they are getting up there in price. Best of luck in your hunt, you have some great options.

[Jason71]

Without question, 14060M. I own both, and the Rolex gets worn all the time. I have to force myself to wear the BB. Nothing against Tudor though......my vintage Tudor subs get worn a great deal of time. To me.......I guess the BB just feels a bit gimmicky. Plus, the vintage Tudor subs / 14060M just wears better on a smaller wrist IMHO. I know the BB is only 1mm larger diameter, but the overall feel is just bigger (If that makes any sense)

[nyc2la]

Sub

[presario]

Another vote for the sub. No contest for me.

[Munch520]

Owned both and while the ND Subs are classics, the BBB did much more for me. The blend of a modern day watch, with so many nods to its heritage (beveled edge on crystal, chapter ring, large unguarded crown, vintage logo) would lead me to say the BBB gets the edge by a pretty large margin in my opinion.

It also stands out a lot more for some of the aforementioned reasons. I was and still am a big fan of the Black Bay. Especially for the price.

[Munch520]

Originally Posted by Jason71

Without question, 14060M. I own both, and the Rolex gets worn all the time. I have to force myself to wear the BB. Nothing against Tudor though......my vintage Tudor subs get worn a great deal of time. To me.......I guess the BB just feels a bit gimmicky. Plus, the vintage Tudor subs / 14060M just wears better on a smaller wrist IMHO. I know the BB is only 1mm larger diameter, but the overall feel is just bigger (If that makes any sense)

I would agree. The 22mm lug width, taller lug to lug, thicker case, and spring bar holes being so low in the lugs make it wear much chunkier than the dimensions on paper would lead you to believe.

Not my pic but does a good job illustrating what I'm talking about

[live1]

Bb for me

[joshuagull]

Proportionally speaking the Black Bay is certainly chunkier despite the specs on paper.

I'm still somewhat torn. Leaning HEAVILY towards the 14060M. It's a good sum of money and the 14060M 2-liner is a classic that will look good now and 50 years from now, and due to the low profile and clean dial/crystal will actually call less attention to itself I think. Since I want a watch that wears easy, goes with anything, and can handle anything--that I can simply throw on my wrist and forget about--the Sub is the more fitting choice. Due to my own personal style the Black Bay fits all those criteria too, which is what complicates the decision. The major Black Bay flaw for me is the slab-sided case. The major 14060M flaw for me is the flat crystal with no AR and the unwanted reflections. Right now I think the move is to get a 14060M used for a good price, give it a go, take it in to my local dealer and compare it back to back with the Black Bay, and see whether I'd rather have the Black Bay over the 14060M, alongside the 14060M or not at all.

[HogwldFLTR]

Really you are in a no lose situation so I recommend just buying either one and living with it until you save enough for the other. Congratulations on having a good choice to make; I hope you post photos when you get it (them ) !!!

[SearChart]

Can't go wrong and I'm sure you will end up owning both somewhere along the line.

[joshuagull]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Really you are in a no lose situation so I recommend just buying either one and living with it until you save enough for the other. Congratulations on having a good choice to make; I hope you post photos when you get it (them ) !!!

I'm a photographer so taking photos of my watches is my second favorite thing to do with them. There will be photos aplenty. ;)

[wrightbrain]

Make sure it's a two liner

[Mak2013]

i think 14060M is one of the most beautiful watches ever made


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[joshuagull]

Originally Posted by wrightbrain

Make sure it's a two liner

2-liner or bust. 👍🏼