Blueberry GMT

[springer]

Originally Posted by Micha

wow... the mystery grows

There is no mystery at all. These inserts have been discussed many times on forums all over the internet for many years. Not so much mystery as "smoke-and-mirrors."

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by springer

The rumor was they were made, or made available for the Peruvian Air Force, not Panama. Also, possibly somewhere in the mideast which I believe was the UAE.

That's right - Peru. Thanks, JP.

I have not really looked in close detail, but I do recall reading a thread on VRF about this and seeing some pictures posted of a pretty large blueberry insert collection.

[greekbum]

All of these inserts came from RSC. If you knew the part number you could order these up until around 2000. I do not know a watch that ever came from Rolex with them. UAE had pepsi. I had a *large* stack of these years ago...I also know others who had them and still have them..... There was all brown with silver fonts ....and i recall seeing a few all red ones too....You could not give them away back then. There is also all blue GMT hands .....I have 2. The market wants to believe in the watch and the demand is creating it. The red hands that i have found in the wild all were on late 2 and early 3 million serial 1675's. I cannot count how many times a week i get an email or call from somebody asking me if i have an all red hand for sale...a radial dial.....and a blue insert.... The blue inserts that came from RSC have distinct features the fake ones are different....some are even sticky....To sum it up for me the watch called a blueberry looks cool but its just a mix of parts.

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by greekbum

All of these inserts came from RSC. If you knew the part number you could order these up until around 2000. I do not know a watch that ever came from Rolex with them. UAE had pepsi. I had a *large* stack of these years ago...I also know others who had them and still have them..... There was all brown with silver fonts ....and i recall seeing a few all red ones too....You could not give them away back then. There is also all blue GMT hands .....I have 2. The market wants to believe in the watch and the demand is creating it. The red hands that i have found in the wild all were on late 2 and early 3 million serial 1675's. I cannot count how many times a week i get an email or call from somebody asking me if i have an all red hand for sale...a radial dial.....and a blue insert.... The blue inserts that came from RSC have distinct features the fake ones are different....some are even sticky....To sum it up for me the watch called a blueberry looks cool but its just a mix of parts.

Nick,

Thanks for the info. If no watch from Rolex came with this insert (to your knowledge), do you have any idea why they even exist?

[Kingface66]

I promise I'm not trying to be facetious, but, when someone buys a Blueberry GMT, like the one HQ Milton was selling (and I believe sold) earlier this year for $27,500 https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/br...pe-may-20-2016 they're essentially buying a nice GMT...in this case, without an all-red hand... WITH a $15-20K insert, depending on how you want to break down the price. Plus, they now have an authentic insert that they can put on any 1675 and call it a Blueberry, like the one they bought. Unless I'm missing something.
Still trying to make sense of this. No offense meant to anyone.

[sensui]

Whatever the justification...(very glad Nick and jp chimed in to confirm my suspicions)...the demand is real and it is what it is. I don't see this as any different than paying 40k+ these days for red font on a dial..some people can justify it so the dealers will cater to them. Can't wait to finish up my vintage list...have to exit soon with this type of pricing.

[springer]

Originally Posted by greekbum

All of these inserts came from RSC. If you knew the part number you could order these up until around 2000. I do not know a watch that ever came from Rolex with them. UAE had pepsi. I had a *large* stack of these years ago...I also know others who had them and still have them..... There was all brown with silver fonts ....and i recall seeing a few all red ones too....You could not give them away back then. There is also all blue GMT hands .....I have 2. The market wants to believe in the watch and the demand is creating it. The red hands that i have found in the wild all were on late 2 and early 3 million serial 1675's. I cannot count how many times a week i get an email or call from somebody asking me if i have an all red hand for sale...a radial dial.....and a blue insert.... The blue inserts that came from RSC have distinct features the fake ones are different....some are even sticky....To sum it up for me the watch called a blueberry looks cool but its just a mix of parts.

Thank you Nick!!! Same thoughts that I posted in the past only to be attacked by those that purchased these faux blueberry, radial dialed, red-handed watches. These watches in particular, I mean, come on people, how gullible can one be. These faux blueberrys were fit with ever rare GMT part from that era.

And one more time, the all-red hands were found during the late 1960s to approximately 1970 or 1971. Now they are on every over-priced Rolex that a seller can get a hold of.

Lastly, and the latest and greatest scam, are the radial dial watches showing up in every imaginable serial number range except the 1960s. What's up with this???

Be careful out there...and as I always tell others, being considered a trusted seller does not make you knowledgeable...big difference between the two.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by springer

Thank you Nick!!! Same thoughts that I posted in the past only to be attacked by those that purchased these faux blueberry, radial dialed, red-handed watches. These watches in particular, I mean, come on people, how gullible can one be. These faux blueberrys were fit with ever rare GMT part from that era.

And one more time, the all-red hands were found during the late 1960s to approximately 1970 or 1971. Now they are on every over-priced Rolex that a seller can get a hold of.

Lastly, and the latest and greatest scam, are the radial dial watches showing up in every imaginable serial number range except the 1960s. What's up with this???

Be careful out there...and as I always tell others, being considered a trusted seller does not make you knowledgeable...big difference between the two.

Thank you, John

[springer]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I promise I'm not trying to be facetious, but, when someone buys a Blueberry GMT, like the one HQ Milton was selling (and I believe sold) earlier this year for $27,500 https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/br...pe-may-20-2016 they're essentially buying a nice GMT...in this case, without an all-red hand... WITH a $15-20K insert, depending on how you want to break down the price. Plus, they now have an authentic insert that they can put on any 1675 and call it a Blueberry, like the one they bought. Unless I'm missing something.
Still trying to make sense of this. No offense meant to anyone.

Nothing really to make sense of here Andy. There is nothing wrong with placing a blueberry on a GMT especially if you can find it discounted. Bezel inserts are changed all the time.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by springer

Nothing really to make sense of here Andy. There is nothing wrong with placing a blueberry on a GMT especially if you can find it discounted. Bezel inserts are changed all the time.

I guess what I'm asking/saying John, is a "Blueberry" 1675 (like the one in the earlier link I posted from HQ.M, or anywhere else) is simply a standard 1675...

...that someone installed a blue Rolex insert onto at some point.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I guess what I'm asking/saying John, is a "Blueberry" 1675 (like the one in the earlier link I posted from HQ.M, or anywhere else) is simply a standard 1675...

...that someone installed a blue Rolex insert onto at some point.

Yes.

[Fredrik]

I don't blame HQ Milton for charging what they did for that GMT with a blueberry insert, they are a dealer and will always charge market price. Apparently someone did find that price acceptable.

I do believe that there are still some people out there with stacks of these inserts and they are slowly selling them not to saturate the market.

[rootbeer7]

Thanks for so much for the great info Springer and Greekbum. Sometimes putting your head above the parapet is worth the risk.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by springer

The rumor was they were made, or made available for the Peruvian Air Force, not Panama. Also, possibly somewhere in the mideast which I believe was the UAE.

Yep, the Peruvian Air Force & UAE MOD sounds about right. I remember seeing a few FAP 1675s with the all-blue bezel before. They had the "Fuerza Aerea del Peru" engraved on the case-back as well as the watch SN. I've also seen numerous UAE Ministry of Defense (MOD) dialed 1675s with the all-blue insert. As Nikos mentioned, the UAE pieces are more prevalent with Pepsi bezels, but I've seen enough examples with the all-blue insert to be reasonably confident that they were offered/spec'd that way at some point as well.

There was some speculation that blue bezels were also spec'd by Tiffany's, but I have yet to see a Tiffany-dial 1675 with an all-blue bezel...

[freefly]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

is a "Blueberry" 1675 (like the one in the earlier link I posted from HQ.M, or anywhere else) is simply a standard 1675...

...that someone installed a blue Rolex insert onto at some point.

I'll defer to JP and Nick, but as mentioned above, I have seen enough examples of the UAE MOD-dial 1675s and the FAP 1675s with blue inserts to be somewhat confident that they were legitimate and left the factory that way.

However, I'd agree that the vast majority of "Blueberry" GMTs being offered for sale these days are simply "normal" 1675s with a bezel swap.
So, regarding originality (not authenticity): If it's not a FAP or UAE-dialed piece, I'd be suspicious. If the SN is under 3 mil., I'd be even more suspicious.

[TimeToGo]

As mentioned, all this information is readily available on the net.

The first all Blue insert I saw for sale was in 2011 for $4k or best offer. It sold within a couple of hours but just think about buying inserts for that amount of money five years ago..

Yes, the price is high. It has a very unique history and in limited supplies. Yes, these are hoarded and make a very nice 401K investment portfolio...

So if someone has one on a watch or for sale separately and you do not want to pay the price...just walk away..

Here is a brief article done a few years ago about the insert:
http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/

[greekbum]

While you have seen numerous UAE Ministry of Defense (MOD) dialed 1675s with the all-blue insert and the others you mentioned they could have most likely been added. Maybe The person who owned that UAE watch famously seen will tell us? He has a large stack of inserts also :) Above this post is his link :) Many years ago I was told that all UAE MOD watches had the dials taken out and were converted back to normal GMT'S. I never could confirm this but somebody showed up in Europe with lots of the dials years later.....

[Micha]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

Thanks for so much for the great info Springer and Greekbum. .....

yes...x2 big THANKS

[THC]

Read all posts, very informative and interesting.. well done folks.. far from over, methinks

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

I don't blame HQ Milton for charging what they did for that GMT with a blueberry insert, they are a dealer and will always charge market price. Apparently someone did find that price acceptable.

I do believe that there are still some people out there with stacks of these inserts and they are slowly selling them not to saturate the market.

HQ Milton certainly isn't the only dealer to take advantage of the hype (IMHO) over these inserts. There is not one, but two available on Iconic right now, one with an all-red hand, said to be all original from 1978:

http://www.iconicwatchcompany.com/19...old-stock.html

[Wesley Crusher]

Do you guys feel that it is unethical for dealers to sell these watches that are a hodgepodge of mixed parts? Swapping inserts is not an issue for me, but combining the blueberry insert with radial dial and all red hand seems wrong, especially if no watch ever left the factory like that.

If a dealer claims that the watch is all original, I find that to be a bit deceptive.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Do you guys feel that it is unethical for dealers to sell these watches that are a hodgepodge of mixed parts? Swapping inserts is not an issue for me, but combining the blueberry insert with radial dial and all red hand seems wrong, especially if no watch ever left the factory like that.

If a dealer claims that the watch is all original, I find that to be a bit deceptive.

Yes, I do find it deceptive. Same way I find it deceptive when dealers list watches as "unpolished" when they've clearly been polished. Sure, buyers need to do their own homework and research, but what if someone is new to the world of vintage Rolexes and takes the plunge because they fully trust these "reputable" dealers?

[freefly]

Originally Posted by greekbum

While you have seen numerous UAE Ministry of Defense (MOD) dialed 1675s with the all-blue insert and the others you mentioned they could have most likely been added.

Possibly. However, if there is no dispute about the existence of authentic blue bezels, then it stands to reason that they would've appeared on some watches as original equipment.
I can't think of any other Rolex (watch) part that has been offered solely as an after-sale item.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Do you guys feel that it is unethical for dealers to sell these watches that are a hodgepodge of mixed parts? Swapping inserts is not an issue for me, but combining the blueberry insert with radial dial and all red hand seems wrong, especially if no watch ever left the factory like that.

If a dealer claims that the watch is all original, I find that to be a bit deceptive.

I think you hit the nail on the head. There appears to be different "levels" of ethics when it comes to resellers with Franken-watches:

1. Selling a watch with aftermarket or outright fake parts and offering it as 100% original/genuine.
2. Selling a watch with aftermarket or outright fake parts and not disclosing them.
3. Selling a watch with aftermarket or outright fake parts and disclosing them.

4. Selling a watch with genuine parts that are not original to the watch and offering it as 100% original.
5. Selling a watch with genuine parts that are not original to the watch and not disclosing them.
6. Selling a watch with genuine parts that are not original to the watch and disclosing them.


To sum it up, it all comes down to disclosure (or lack thereof), IMO.

[themaninblack]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Do you guys feel that it is unethical for dealers to sell these watches that are a hodgepodge of mixed parts? Swapping inserts is not an issue for me, but combining the blueberry insert with radial dial and all red hand seems wrong, especially if no watch ever left the factory like that.

If a dealer claims that the watch is all original, I find that to be a bit deceptive.

I don't want to enter into a discussion of ethics but given the price sensitivity in the market to certain parts of watches and their originality and also given that a good part of a dealers reputation comes from their knowledge and accuracy in describing the watches they are selling then yes there is an issue when the standard is subjectively applied. If a dealer in their description lists parts which are not original to the watch largely because they have a material effect on market price then if these inserts are not an original part that should be stated.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by themaninblack

I don't want to enter into a discussion of ethics but given the price sensitivity in the market to certain parts of watches and their originality and also given that a good part of a dealers reputation comes from their knowledge and accuracy in describing the watches they are selling then yes there is an issue when the standard is subjectively applied. If a dealer in their description lists parts which are not original to the watch largely because they have a material effect on market price then if these inserts are not an original part that should be stated.

Precisely. If a reputable dealer advertises a "Blueberry GMT", dated anywhere from 1972 to 1979, with the description, "The watch comes with an excellent condition blueberry bezel insert" and is selling it for $20K - $30K, what is a buyer supposed to make of it? From what I can tell, it simply comes with a blue insert.

[datejust24]

I suppose the argument HQ and other dealers could use would be that they didn't describe the piece as 100% original, as in completely original since leaving the factory as opposed to completely original Rolex parts...Deceptive? Absolutely. And for those who say the insert is worth 15-20k...you're nuts.

[sensui]

It's a catch 22....from the sellers end...how would you guarantee 100% original? Parts get swapped/come and go and with Rolex vintage scene's blurry facts...there is no guarantee....just simple supply and demand. It's no secret a good bulk of vintage dealers hype the scene with new nicknames etc...simply marketing imo.

[Matdaytona]

So what do we make of the the radial dial blueberry bezel all red hand GMT that's currently in the f/s section?

[datejust24]

That its a 1675 with an added insert and GMT hand I suppose...Based off the info supplied by JP and Nick...I would absolutely believe, and DO believe what they have said about this elusive watch we've all come to know as the 'Blueberry'...